144 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It matters because Karl is a Harrowed mage, and the Rite of Tranquility is illegal against Harrowed mages unless they specifically ask to be made tranquil. Anders escaped the Circle several times, and he wasn't made tranquil.

That speaks more of the First Enchanter of Ferelden than of the law. The matter of fact is that it is NOT illegal to tranquilize a harrowed mage. Tranquilization is used as a punishment for mages who show no desire to control their magic, or to follow the Circle's rules. Karl was insubordinate and plotted with the mage underground. Thus he was made tranquil. Fully legal.

You keep using your speculation as proof. No matter how many times you make claims with no evidence to back them up, it doesn't make them any more accurate. All we know is that Karl wrote letters to Anders explaining how bad the situation in the Circle of Kirkwall was.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The tranquil mages have a lobotomy because they are cut off from the Fade, and they have no emotions.

Uhm... Yes. And? Just because they have no emotion does not mean they have no preference. It means they can't feal love, annoyance, friendship, all that kind of stuff. It has no influence on wether or not they do as the Templars say.

We saw that influence on Owain as he decided to clean the storeroom and stand in the middle of the room instead of hide from the sight of the blood mages and abominations in the Circle Tower. That's what happens when someone has a lobotomy.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It doesn't change that the Saarebas are forced into servitude when the choice is between submission and death.

They are not forced. They do so willingly.

With chains and a device that limits their actions as though they were golems.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The whole way of the Qun is crap and basically breeds automatons, but even so, the Arvaraad can speak. He can communicate with others without forfeiting his life and theirs. He can participate in state-sanctioned celebrations and parties (I'm certain Sarebaas cannot). He can have time to himself and possibly engage in hobbies (Sten plays with kittens don't you know).
A Sarebaas has none of that, they are controlled not only by the Qun, but by a freaking control rod.

I am very certain that an Arvaarad have no downtime at all. His job is to be on constant watch for "evil". His job is to hunt down Tal-Vasoth and to take care of the Saarebas. Since a mage require constant vigilance, so does an Arvaarad have to be constantly vigilant.

And he does so without chains or a Qunari control rod.

[EmperorSahlertz]

A Saarebas willingly wear those chains, and submits himself to the "control rod". He accepts his role within the Qun. He knows that the gift he has, is also a curse, and accepts that, no matter what, he will always be a threat to everyone around him.
And the Arvaarad is, figuratively speaking, also chained to his Saarebas. Their fates are intertwined.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 20 avril 2011 - 01:10 .

[Camenae]

Funnyily enough, just as Zevran says, when I hold someone's control rod, he willingly does my bidding as well.

[The Angry One]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The whole way of the Qun is crap and basically breeds automatons, but even so, the Arvaraad can speak. He can communicate with others without forfeiting his life and theirs. He can participate in state-sanctioned celebrations and parties (I'm certain Sarebaas cannot). He can have time to himself and possibly engage in hobbies (Sten plays with kittens don't you know).
A Sarebaas has none of that, they are controlled not only by the Qun, but by a freaking control rod.

I am very certain that an Arvaarad have no downtime at all. His job is to be on constant watch for "evil". His job is to hunt down Tal-Vasoth and to take care of the Saarebas. Since a mage require constant vigilance, so does an Arvaarad have to be constantly vigilant.

And he does so without chains or a Qunari control rod.

The Arvaraad you deal with in the Ketojan quest has no Sarebaas.
Ketojan is not his (all the Qunari with Ketojan were killed), and isn't slated to be his (Ketojan must die).
So we have an example of one who's not bount to any Saarebas.

[Kilshrek]

You mean, is it worse to be (deaf and dumb) or (blind and deaf)? Both are terrible ways to exist and I would only wish it on my worst enemies (and since I don't have any that's no problem), but being a Tranquil is like not being able to see the colour in life, to smell flowers, baked bread, damp dogs, and such things. The Saarebas have full control of their faculties but not that it matters a jot since they're chained like animals and treated like dancing bears.
Really, comparing dead and dead is no comparison at all.

[The Angry One]

LobselVith8 wrote...

With chains and a device that limits their actions as though they were golems.

Here's a question: Would it be better to be a Saarebas or a Golem (bound with a control rod).

[blothulfur]

Makes you wonder what happens to the part of the tranquil that gets sliced away, his soul if you will. Does it atrophy and die starved of the mortal connection, is it shunted into the fade where demons devour them like sweetmeats or maybe it watches, waits and hates like one of those shade demons.

[EmperorSahlertz]

blothulfur wrote...

Makes you wonder what happens to the part of the tranquil that gets sliced away, his soul if you will. Does it atrophy and die starved of the mortal connection, is it shunted into the fade where demons devour them like sweetmeats or maybe it watches, waits and hates like one of those shade demons.

They don't physically (or psychically if you will) remove a part of you. They just make you incapable of projecting yourself in the Fade. What wanders around in the Fade is not a human's soul, it is merely his projection of himself.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 20 avril 2011 - 02:48 .

[blothulfur]

Oh not as bad as I thought then, cheers Emperor.

[LobselVith8]

blothulfur wrote...

Makes you wonder what happens to the part of the tranquil that gets sliced away, his soul if you will. Does it atrophy and die starved of the mortal connection, is it shunted into the fade where demons devour them like sweetmeats or maybe it watches, waits and hates like one of those shade demons.

That seems to be the impression Keeper Marethari gives when Hawke goes into the Fade to deal with Feynriel, but it's speculative since we don't know the definitive truth.

[blothulfur]

One thing I think both origins and DA2 got spot on is this uncertainty that exists in the lore, it's what's driven our philosophy for millenia and also of course our less noble pursuits but it still makes the world of Thedas so much deeper.

[Well]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

We've seen one do that. Hardly enough to warrant a they.

But if it is, in that case I say that mages murder several people to infuse a demon on several corpses that've been stitched together.

It's not comparable though. We have had plenty of exposure to mages from the circle who don't murder several people to infuse a demon on several corpses that have been stitched together. 

All Qunari we've met have followed the Qun. We've never met a single Qunari that does not rigidly adhere to the Qun. Ever. We've met occasional rare Kossith that haven't, but none have identified themselves as Qunari. The only way you'd be able to find a Saarebas that won't kill itself once the Qun demands it is a non-Qunari Saarebas. Can such a creature exist and still be called a Saarebas? I don't know. I kind of thought that a Saarebas was Qunari, and once it ceased to be Qunari, it wouldn't be a Saarebas anymore.

Actually not all the Qunari.Remember the soon to be Merc who warned Hawke..also Tal-Vashoth arent doing a good job of following it.

[Well]

As far as the tranquil they lose their emotions.They don't lose their soul.I remember the tranquils at the tower and they didn't want to die.So they aren't zombies.

[Kasces]

I much rather be Tranquil and have my emotions essentially erased because after the fact, I don't care, and it's only from the outside it is morally reprehensible.

Being a Saarebas means being so indoctrinated that I might as well be Tranquil- if the one we help in-game setting himself on fire is any indication- plus the horrendous physical abuse. Also since the emotions are still there, it's a constant struggle between my indoctrination and my free will, with indoctrination probably winning. You could argue that it's still a willing decision and that Qunari accept their roles so there's nothing to feel bad about, but at least Tranquility is either a choice or in order to keep you from becoming an abomination. Only when the Rite of Tranquility is abused is it really worse.

No thanks. Just cut my emotions off please.

[SkittlesKat96]

 Well in my opinion being tranquil is sort of akin to dying (your personality and truthness of yourself just goes away and is locked away sort of) it's hard to tell though how bad being a Saarebas would be, I'm not sure if they like it truthfully or not

EDIT: I realize tranquils aren't zombies and they still sort of have part of themselves still intact but they are still almost like a different person and don't really care about whats happened to them truthfully

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 20 avril 2011 - 03:45 .

[Well]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 Well in my opinion being tranquil is sort of akin to dying (your personality and truthness of yourself just goes away and is locked away sort of) it's hard to tell though how bad being a Saarebas would be, I'm not sure if they like it truthfully or not

EDIT: I realize tranquils aren't zombies and they still sort of have part of themselves still intact but they are still almost like a different person and don't really care about whats happened to them truthfully

Remember in the tower when clearing it out.Owan said he rather not die.

[nos_astra]

Kasces wrote...
I much rather be Tranquil and have my emotions essentially erased because after the fact, I don't care, and it's only from the outside it is morally reprehensible.

Pretty much this. I know, it sounds horrible, but I think I'd prefer tranquility to being collared and leashed like an animal.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It doesn't change that the Saarebas are forced into servitude when the choice is between submission and death.

They are not forced. They do so willingly.

With chains and a device that limits their actions as though they were golems.

I think the situation with Katojan would be quite commonplace where they feel they are doing an honor of the qun and will not give up their position dispite mistreatment