742 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

thurmanator692 wrote...

kinda my point. burns are a bad thing.

Then you missed the point of my post.

Putting fire out = better than just ignoring it and letting it spread.

[jbblue05]

AdmiralCheez wrote...


Any human organization in the public eye is the "face of humanity."

The Alliance is the most prodigous face of humanity

Hackett, Anderson, and Kahoku disagree.  That's three admirals.  Or two admirals and a councilor.

They don't personally like Cerberus.  Their is strong evidence from TIM, EDI, Retribution, Ascension and TSB that the Alliance and Cerberus are intertwined.

When Anderson trun in the evidence to the Turians it infuriated the Alliance which is a fact

Was that in the book?  If so, in what context?

Drew was vague about Anderson or Udina being the Councilor,  but I think Udina was the Councilor

The human and turian militaries are pretty buddy-buddy at this point (read the CDN), so it's not like asking them for help is unheard of.  Besides, they'd jump on the opportunity to take down Cerberus, while the Alliance might hesitate since, you know, several political/industrial fat cats are in TIM's pocket.  Thus, there's no way of taking out Cerberus through Alliance forces without alerting the moles.  Third party's your best option.

The Turians are more cooperative if you save the Council while they are less if you don't save the Coucil. Plus cooperating with the Turians is more for PR reasons
Judging by the events of Retribution the Alliance didn't want the Turians help and their is a political sh!tstorm between them.  So I'm guessing an internal investigation is the best option and not involving a rival species in sensitive political, technology, and military matters

More like Cerberus is butt-buddies with a few corporations and politicians seeking to advance their own interests.  I'm not saying a few Alliance officers aren't guilty as well, but really, what's your problem with weeding out the guys who've been donating their paychecks to assassination and baby torture?

Cerberus butt-buddies happen to be Alliance's butt buddies also. The Alliance protect the corporations interests.  Most of the evils Cerberus has done is not known but handing over evidence to the Turians will make it well-lknown and thus cast an even darker shadow on the Alliance

Humans and aliens worked together to take down terrorists.  A brave human councilor/admiral uncovered corruption in his own government and took action like a real leader.  Galaxy high-fives itself.

So if some armed Turians drag out a well-respected and loved Alliance official from his apartment  you expect Alliance citizens to high-five those Turians.   The Turians say they work with Terrorists but provide no evidence because they can't trust the Alliance and don't want to tip off any other Cerberus terroristss
Terra Firma will have a field day against the Turians
Things will only get worse and divide the races before it unifies them. 
Your missing the point that every action sets off a chain reaction

Only if TIM's man-cleavage makes you horny. ;3

The Alliace is in a win win situation is if you're an eternal-optimist

Modifié par jbblue05, 19 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he may eat for a lifetime.

Charity is good and valuable, but Africa provides a sad case study that too much good will can effectively perpetuate poverty and helplessness. Providing too much of the wrong help to the needy can just perpetuated their status, as opposed to helping them overcome it, just as volunteer-charities who build houses can put skilled housebuilders out of work and leave the area worse off for the lack of them, or how food aid can cripple an economy's farming potential and ability to feed itself.

Knee-jerk humanitarianism isn't an automatic solution, whether you see the alternative as 'leaving them to rot' or not.

Indeed, in fact I just finished writing a final exam just about that.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 avril 2011 - 08:31 .

[Sylvianus]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Thank you admiral, it's exatly what i think.

Yes, and the mission is a total success in the military area. Cerberus has been struck by lightning.

And Turians are my allies in my party, so I refuse to believe they see Alliance negatively. They have also extremists on their side (see info cerberus) and knows that it is not obvious. Cerberus is also their ennemy.

A common concern, common action.

A fruitful collaboration anti-corruption, anti-terrorist, anti-traitor.

Now yes, we can look at things practically, or politician. I prefer the light practice.

Well, Shepard, looking back, I can see where my actions would be at fault. I have further fractured humanity's, and by extention, the galaxy's front against a threat unlike any we have ever faced. In hindsight, I should be more concerned for the saftey of the galactic community as a whole instead of my petty vengance against the organization that hurt mine and my booty call's feelings.

I agree with you. Anderson may not be acting in the best sense of reflection. Where I differ is to think that his action is the result of treachery against humanity. This was perhaps not the right time, but the action taken was the best in practice, to eliminate what he sees as a threat, a poison against the Alliance and the Council, within the Alliance.

As I said, Anderson is very hateful toward Cerberus, he doesn't think he can be part of  the solution against the reapers. It's just a terrorist movement for him. Even Shepard, he will no tlearn informations because he is with Cerberus at this time.

We can deny him this vision, but that's how he thinks.

His priorities may be questionable, but basically he has reduced a threat against  Alliance, with the results we know, but not really betrayed humanity.

That said, I agree that even if I approve, we were obliged him to resign because his position was untenable.

[shnizzler93]

Who could possibly hate on Anderson? He sings Nat King Cole!

[GreenDragon37]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Drake_Hound wrote...

People calling Anderson a traitor , are foolishe .
Honestly in ME1 he was willing to throw away his career and life , so you can get a shot at Saren.
Anyway even if you let the council die , But put Anderson on the council you would still get your spectre status... those Fools who put Udina in charge should go ... ah well you know what to do with him .

But honestly after ME1 , I wasn´t to thrilled to join Cerebus .
But dead man can´t be picky , and it does fit Shepard to repay a debt .

In a way you could look at shep doing Tim's bidding in ME2 is payment but when someone does what tIM did you can never repay them. And as I hate Cerberus that's bad for me.

More for OP Anderson is a good guy and as a good guy people dislike him, people hate him, and nutters want him dead it comes with being a good person. He's not fighting the good fight for fame or fortune he's doing it because he believes in what he is doing I'm sure Anderson fully expects his military career to go up in flames and his personal life to boot. Some of the greatest achievers or thinkers died poor.

Anderson has done many positive selfless things like offering to die to get shep off lock down in ME, continuing to serve on the council and feel like he's bashing his head into a wall on a daily baisies, trying out for spectorhood then taking the fall whe it all went bust, I'm sure he's done more but for shep he's done alot and stuck his neck out far too often I feel bad for him but I admire him as a character he symbolizes ideals that are quickly the object of scorn now adays.

I love you!

Anderson is amazing. He's not afraid to do what he thinks is right, nor is he afraid to to say it. He risked everything to make sure you had a shot at Saren. However people appear to think the bad guys are the **** nowadays, so he is the object of scorn. And seeing as I hate Cerberus with a passion, I think he did the right thing.

[Zulu_DFA]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

And seeing as I hate Cerberus with a passion, I think he did the right thing.

And seeing you hate Cerberus with a passion, I think the passion is what's clouding your judgement.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 avril 2011 - 08:41 .

[Nashiktal]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

Drake_Hound wrote...

People calling Anderson a traitor , are foolishe .
Honestly in ME1 he was willing to throw away his career and life , so you can get a shot at Saren.
Anyway even if you let the council die , But put Anderson on the council you would still get your spectre status... those Fools who put Udina in charge should go ... ah well you know what to do with him .

But honestly after ME1 , I wasn´t to thrilled to join Cerebus .
But dead man can´t be picky , and it does fit Shepard to repay a debt .

In a way you could look at shep doing Tim's bidding in ME2 is payment but when someone does what tIM did you can never repay them. And as I hate Cerberus that's bad for me.

More for OP Anderson is a good guy and as a good guy people dislike him, people hate him, and nutters want him dead it comes with being a good person. He's not fighting the good fight for fame or fortune he's doing it because he believes in what he is doing I'm sure Anderson fully expects his military career to go up in flames and his personal life to boot. Some of the greatest achievers or thinkers died poor.

Anderson has done many positive selfless things like offering to die to get shep off lock down in ME, continuing to serve on the council and feel like he's bashing his head into a wall on a daily baisies, trying out for spectorhood then taking the fall whe it all went bust, I'm sure he's done more but for shep he's done alot and stuck his neck out far too often I feel bad for him but I admire him as a character he symbolizes ideals that are quickly the object of scorn now adays.

I love you!

Anderson is amazing. He's not afraid to do what he thinks is right, nor is he afraid to to say it. He risked everything to make sure you had a shot at Saren. However people appear to think the bad guys are the **** nowadays, so he is the object of scorn. And seeing as I hate Cerberus with a passion, I think he did the right thing.

You missed like 14 pages of why he is seen as bad right now.

To sum it up, he risked EVERYTHING to get some tail. Who cares about a galaxy full of people when you can have sex right?

[Seboist]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

If you fight fire with a bigger fire, you just get twice as burned

I'm more of an advocate of putting the fires out, thanks.

PS to everyone: The economic, poilitical, and military might of the Turian Hierarchy > one well-informed guy with lots of money and a small army of mooks.

I don't mind buring one rickety old bridge if I get to put something bigger and more badass in its place.

Cerberus is the only one fighting the Reapers and put an end to the Collectors. They're good people.

[AdmiralCheez]

jbblue05 wrote...

The Alliance is the most prodigous face of humanity

In that case, they'd better dump Cerberus, then.

They don't personally like Cerberus.  Their is strong evidence from TIM, EDI, Retribution, Ascension and TSB that the Alliance and Council are intertwined.

By intertwined you mean that Cerberus has moles and backers within the Alliance, or is this more Zulu-esque?

When Anderson trun in the evidence to the Turians it infuriated the Alliance which is a fact

Well, if you show pictures of your congressmen dressed up in KKK robes, those congressmen will get a little upset.

The Turians are more cooperative if you save the Council while they are less if you don't save the Coucil. Plus cooperating with the Turians is more for PR reasons
Judging by the events of Retribution the Alliance didn't want the Turians help and their is a political sh!tstorm between them.  So I'm guessing an internal investigation is the best option and not involving a rival species in sensitive political, technology, and military matters

Problem: moles.  Cerberus would cover their tracks before you got to them.

And there ain't nothin' wrong with a little PR.

Cerberus butt-buddies happen to be Alliance's butt buddies also. The Alliance protect the corporations interests.  Most of the evils Cerberus has done is not known but handing over evidence to the Turians will make it well-known and thus cast an even darker shadow on the Alliance.

Name me one national superpower that hasn't acted out of its own interests.

As for that "dark shadow," it would only fall on the folks funding Cerberus.  Making Cerberus public would force any and all Alliance officials to either cut ties or lay low, thus starving the organization.

So if some armed Turians drag out a well-respected and loved Alliance official from his apartment  you expect Alliance citizens to high-five those Turians.   The Turians say they work with Terrorists but provide no evidence because they can't trust the Alliance and don't want to tip off any other Cerberus terroristss
Terra Firma will have a field day against the Turians
Things will only get worse and divide the races before it unifies them. 
Your missing the point that every action sets off a chain reaction

What makes you think the turians wouldn't share the evidence?  Hell, they'd be waving it around like a damn victory banner!  And even if they didn't share, what makes you think Anderson wouldn't go public with it once the arrest was made?

The absolute worst thing that can happen to a secret organization is for it to be made public.  Backers would quickly cut ties to cover their own asses.  Nothing kills your chances in the elections like being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.  You know, Watergate.

The Alliace is in a win win situation is if you're an eternal-optimists

I'm not saying this is a win for the Alliance.  I'm saying it's bad for Cerberus.

[AdmiralCheez]

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus is the only one fighting the Reapers and put an end to the Collectors. They're good people.

Tell that to Toombs, Kahoku, Jack, and all the other folks they screwed over.  Besides, the Collectors are taken care of: Retribution takes place post-ME2.

It's not like I'm not grateful for the whole ressurection thing, but honestly, by the time we even get to think about paying them back, they've betrayed us, anyway.  Bloody lot of good that did.

[Seboist]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus is the only one fighting the Reapers and put an end to the Collectors. They're good people.

Tell that to Toombs, Kahoku, Jack, and all the other folks they screwed over.  Besides, the Collectors are taken care of: Retribution takes place post-ME2.

It's not like I'm not grateful for the whole ressurection thing, but honestly, by the time we even get to think about paying them back, they've betrayed us, anyway.  Bloody lot of good that did.

We only have Toombs' version of the story to go by, Kahoku got was coming to him for going rogue and going to the Shadow Broker, and Jack become a great asset against the Collectors.

[AdmiralCheez]

Seboist wrote...

We only have Toombs' version of the story to go by, Kahoku got was coming to him for going rogue and going to the Shadow Broker, and Jack become a great asset against the Collectors.

So sicking thresher maws on people and torturing babies is perfectly okay?

[jbblue05]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

In that case, they'd better dump Cerberus, then.

Or they don't need selfish self-righteous idiots like Anderson exposing their dirty laundry to the public

By intertwined you mean that Cerberus has moles and backers within the Alliance, or is this more Zulu-esque?

Cerberus and the Alliance share the same common goal.  I find it easier to believe if Cerberus proves useful to the Alliance, that the Alliance will secretly approve of them and public deenounce them as a convienent scapegoat 

Well, if you show pictures of your congressmen dressed up in KKK robes, those congressmen will get a little upset.

Problem: moles.  Cerberus would cover their tracks before you got to them.

And there ain't nothin' wrong with a little PR.

Why wouldn't Cerberus try to cover their tracks, they prefer to work in the shadows.
Their is nothing wrong with PR but it doesn't mean the reasons behind them are sincere

Name me one national superpower that hasn't acted out of its own interests.

As for that "dark shadow," it would only fall on the folks funding Cerberus.  Making Cerberus public would force any and all Alliance officials to either cut ties or lay low, thus starving the organization.

The folks funding Cerberus are the same ones funding the Alliance.
The Alliance was already laying low with Cerberus until Anderson made it public.

What makes you think the turians wouldn't share the evidence?  Hell, they'd be waving it around like a damn victory banner!  And even if they didn't share, what makes you think Anderson wouldn't go public with it once the arrest was made?

Turians won't share the evidence until after the investigation is complete. And the Turians will parade around the galaxy about how they exposed the corrupt Alliance

The absolute worst thing that can happen to a secret organization is for it to be made public.  Backers would quickly cut ties to cover their own asses.  Nothing kills your chances in the elections like being caught with your hand in the cookie jar.  You know, Watergate.

likely adt its also likely powerful organizations like Terra Firma will climb to the top and gather huge support from Alliance citizens.
Plus Cerberus can always start a new

I'm not saying this is a win for the Alliance.  I'm saying it's bad for Cerberus.

I believe your seeing things too black and white.
This is bad for Cerberus, the Alliance, humanity's view on the Turians,  Organized effort against the Reaper invasion, and this could potentially ignite a war with the Alliance and Turians.

Its not good guys stop bad guys everything will be Ok now

[Dean_the_Young]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why does the US allow Karzai, who is incredibly corrupt, to stay president of Afghanistan? Why does the US allow a number of vocal, and prominent, anti-American clerics in Iraq to openly preach anti-american sentiments? Why did the US ever support murderous dictatorships in the Cold War?

Because the effects of a cure can outweigh a disease. When resolving a problem can create a worse problem, it's ultimately counterproductive to 'fix' it. Problems have priorities, and not all need to or should be done immediately.

That kind of BS thinking is the reason nobody's done anything about Cerberus.

And you know why the US did those things, right?  Oil money and fear of "teh ebul communists."  Same thing here: heavy investment in Cerberus in hopes of getting a technological edge and "teh ebul aliems."

Money, power, and paranoia.

PS: Sorry guys, my liberal is showing.

I wasn't aware Afghanistan had oil.

Or many communists.

[Seboist]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

If you fight fire with a bigger fire, you just get twice as burned

I'm more of an advocate of putting the fires out, thanks.

PS to everyone: The economic, poilitical, and military might of the Turian Hierarchy > one well-informed guy with lots of money and a small army of mooks.

I don't mind buring one rickety old bridge if I get to put something bigger and more badass in its place.

Cerberus is the only one fighting the Reapers and put an end to the Collectors. They're good people.

Well, there's also this one Commander i know of. What was their name again?

And no. Cerberus is not composed of 'good people'. they know that and don't care, which isn't particularly healthy for anybody else

That same Commander who was a corpse en route to the Collectors who was rescued and revived by Cerberus and who followed their intel and strategic planning to stop their plans? That same Commander?

Cerberus are fighting the Reapers and are looking out for humanity's long term interests not the Rachni,Geth,Vorcha or the three stooges on the Council.

[Seboist]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

We only have Toombs' version of the story to go by, Kahoku got was coming to him for going rogue and going to the Shadow Broker, and Jack become a great asset against the Collectors.

So sicking thresher maws on people and torturing babies is perfectly okay?

Kahoku's goons were sticking their noses where they weren't supposed to and Cerberus did what had to be done for humanity to be biotically competitive.