742 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...


This is the one thing I never understood. People love Cerberus even after all of the horrible things they've done. I guess it's because liking sick experimentation and racial domination has become the "cool thing" to do. <_<

I had no idea we were back in the 1930s!

Well, compared to the genocide Shepard deals out...

I'll give you that. But not blowing up the Relay is just stupid. There was no intention of mass murder, you did what you did to stop the Reapers. The alternative was far worse.

[Sylvianus]

I'd say that Cerberus has sympathizers in the higher echelons of the Alliance, and are connected via TIM's front corporations and business connections. And as a result, many in the Alliance see Cerberus as convenient and would turn a blind eye to their actions.

Simpathizers of a terrorist organization, which has been classified as terrorist by the Council and the Alliance ? An entity who killed an Admiral of the Alliance ( so crosses the red line ) and  has finally convinced the alliance that Cerberus was not on their side ?

These people can only blame themself if they were arrested. It's totally unjustified.

And in M1 and M2, the discussion with EDI, demonstrates how Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance. It is clear that Cerberus may have all the information they want, in any Alliance ' branch.

It says also in the thoughts of TIM, it does not take long time to learn more about the information he wants.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 avril 2011 - 09:51 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Wait, that would imply that Zulu's judgement is clear the rest of the time.

Not really. His love for Cerberus clouds his judgement.

If my judgement was clouded, I'd be propagating a real crackpot theory about how Anderson and Kahlee Sanders have actually been advancing the Reaper goals, ever since Revelation, and that's the main reason Anderson digs under Cerberus all the time.

I can already tell that's what's coming, Zulu... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

That's only because your judgement is clouded. It is not coming.

In fact, it already came.

See that? On the screen? That's it.

Zing!

Dean, give me a goddam break, will ya?

I mean, you're cool and all, but you've got this problem with subjunctive mood at times... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

[Seboist]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...


This is the one thing I never understood. People love Cerberus even after all of the horrible things they've done. I guess it's because liking sick experimentation and racial domination has become the "cool thing" to do. <_<

I had no idea we were back in the 1930s!

Well, compared to the genocide Shepard deals out...

I'll give you that. But not blowing up the Relay is just stupid. There was no intention of mass murder, you did what you did to stop the Reapers. The alternative was far worse.

Shepard delibertately exterminates the Thorian,Collectors and can choose to do so for the Rachni. Even destroying the heretic Geth in Legion's LM counts as "genocide".

[Dean_the_Young]

GreenDragon37 wrote...


Of course sick experimentation happens. But I'm not a monster who apparently accepts it like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread (you apparently do).

[citation needed]

I'm all for competition and staying ahead of the other races, but won't sell my soul and betray my values. Also, the National Socialists were devoured and humiliated for what they did. Experiments for the "betterment of Humanity". Hiding behind that old card.

I realize Godwin's already been invoked... but really. Godwin's law.

Cerberus isn't the ****s. Shepard comes far closer than Cerberus ever has to date.

[AdmiralCheez]

jbblue05 wrote...

The Alliance has enough cclean laundry that it can wait to clean their dirty laundry

That's no excuse.

I believe your being black and white.
The Alliance wanted more power in ME1 that was made perfectly clear to you from Anderson.
You seem to forget that the Alliance siezed domination of the Council if you llet the Council die.

More political pull/territory =/= TOTAL DOMINATION.  Durr.  Those are two different shades of gray.

Additionally, like any political body, the Alliance can change policies later.  In fact, their current policies should probably stop anyway, since it's what pissed off the batarians in the first place.

This is exactly why you cover your tracks you don't want the guys with dreadnoughts deeming you untrustworthy and gaining more power

Too late for that now, eh?  Should have covered your tracks faster.

Thos few people are the voices that lead the Alliance

Not when they're exposed as terrorist supporters.

No they won't those few people chart the Alliance's path, the Alliance will not let their leaders be at the mercy of the Turians.

Mercy of the tur...?  Uh, dude, I'm pretty sure the turians attacked a Cerberus facility.  They didn't exactly park a cruiser in a CEO's front lawn... did they?

Anyway, your argument is this: We can't take the corrupt people out of power because they're in power.  Yes we can, and we can easily fill the power vacuum with far more moderate candidates.  You know, ones that aren't funding terrorists.  And I don't think you have to worry about the CEOs--they can cut ties with Cerberus and use the extra money to hire a good lawyer.

Cerberus aren't terrorists. Shepard is.  Anderson is hurting our chaces against the Reapers while Cerberus has been helping us

Yeah because Cerberus is totally gonna be integral to the Reapers' defeat... </sarcasm>

Entire civilizations > TIM and Co.

You forget that the Turiams are withholding evidence form the Alliance.  They are arresting Alliance officials in droves without any proof just suspicion

Okay, I didn't read the book, so could you please type up the specific passage and/or link it for me?

So you're saying "I don't care what happens,in the aftermath as long as Cerberus is attacked I'm happy"

No.  I'm saying that this isn't going to screw us all over as much as you think.

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...


Of course sick experimentation happens. But I'm not a monster who apparently accepts it like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread (you apparently do).

[citation needed]

I'm all for competition and staying ahead of the other races, but won't sell my soul and betray my values. Also, the National Socialists were devoured and humiliated for what they did. Experiments for the "betterment of Humanity". Hiding behind that old card.

I realize Godwin's already been invoked... but really. Godwin's law.

Cerberus isn't the ****s. Shepard comes far closer than Cerberus ever has to date.

How so? Blowing up a system that was doomed to fall anyway and slowing down the Reapers? I'm sure once people actually see the threat in ME3, they'll realize Shep did what he had to do.

[KnightofPhoenix]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Sorry, never read the books, so I wasn't clear on the details.  How many people knew about the whole turian/Cerberus shenanigans again?  Was it all over the news or did it stay fairly hush-hush?

I doubt such an incident did not become public knowledge. And in any case, it would embolden the Turian hawks and make them think humanity is weak. And it would enrage Alliance hawks. The political context, even in a paragon council situation, is too fragile for us to afford such things at this moment.

I doubt the Turians didn't publically boast about their little victory. I know I would.

Anyway, was the Cerberus facility technically in Alliance space?  If it was, oh snap, bad move.

I am not sure of the facility itself, but the Turians attacked several bases and front companies, and I assume some if not many of them were in Alliance space. And they attacked some in the Citadel itself. Reminder, the Alliance is part of the council here.

If Cerbers wasn't in Alliance space, then in the Terminus system. So now the Turians send military forces there, but when it comes to human colonies being threatened, like by their own traitours specter in the traverse, they think it's dagnerous? ha.

Also, since Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance, was going through normal channels ever an option?

May or may not. I'd argue that in either case, now was not the time for it, if the Alliance can't (or most likely wouldn't) deal with it. He should have just swallowed his pride and not act the hero in front of his girl.

If he had to deal with it, at least bring in some Alliance involvement. But if he doesn't know a single high ranking Alliance officer who isn't sympathetic to Cerberus, then maybe he should reconsider and just retire.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 avril 2011 - 10:01 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Shepard has multiple counts of genocide under his belt by ME3. Cerberus has, arguably, one: the Collectors.

[GreenDragon37]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Shepard has multiple counts of genocide under his belt by ME3. Cerberus has, arguably, one: the Collectors.

Um, my Shep didn't kill the Rachni, so no genocide for me.

[Seboist]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

So it's just a big coincidence that your Shepard used Cerberus assets and followed through with what TIM tasked him to do? Oh Okay.

Hell, if TIMmy boy is dumb enough to hand over billions of credits and resources to the guy that made his life hell two years ago, it's his own damn fault. 

I think most of us can agree that the human race being wiped out is a bad thing, so if Cerberus really was the only option, it's foolish to not take it.  However, just because it was an alliance of necessity doesn't mean it was a permanent one.

You may argue that it's unwise to cut ties with Cerberus due to the imminent Reaper invasion, but clearly TIM doesn't think that way.

Nah, it's just the writers making sure we have as much "choice" as in a JRPG. A guy doesn't go from shedding tears if Shepard dies regardless of what happens to CB to hunting him out of nowhere.

'I don't like this writing' =/= 'this is bad writing

After playing DA:O , It's quite obvious that ME's "choices" are purely comsetic and frankly quite laughable. In DA:O you have have completely different missions based on your actions and in ME you get....... some throw away lines and an e-mail.

[KnightofPhoenix]

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I'm all for competition and staying ahead of the other races, but won't sell my soul and betray my values. Also, the National Socialists were devoured and humiliated for what they did. Experiments for the "betterment of Humanity". Hiding behind that old card.

Ah yes. Of course.

You do know that the Allies took N@zi and Japanese experiments and scientists and used it for their own interests right? You know that the USA protected Unit 731 from legal prosecution that used Chinese civilians as test subjects, to get their hands on their research?

Your soul and values hold little value in real politik it seems, I am sorry. People live on greatness and enjoy it, but don't know how that greatness was built and maintained.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 avril 2011 - 09:57 .

[ddv.rsa]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Shepard has multiple counts of genocide under his belt by ME3. Cerberus has, arguably, one: the Collectors.

Um, my Shep didn't kill the Rachni, so no genocide for me.

What about the Thorian?

[ddv.rsa]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I'm all for competition and staying ahead of the other races, but won't sell my soul and betray my values. Also, the National Socialists were devoured and humiliated for what they did. Experiments for the "betterment of Humanity". Hiding behind that old card.

Ah yes. Of course.

You do know that the Allies took N@zi and Japanese experiments and scientists and used it for their own interests right? You know that the USA protected Unit 731 from legal prosecution that used Chinese civilians as test subjects, to get their hands on their research?

Your soul and values hold little value in real politik it seems, I am sorry. People live on greatness and enjoy it, but don't know how that greatness was built and maintained.

Don't forget the space race and von Braun.

[Drake_Hound]

lol ok now shepard is a bad guy you need to murder !!

Oh rofl lmao , ok ok hmmm... didn´t he die in ME2 when he all his crew died

[GreenDragon37]

ddv.rsa wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Shepard has multiple counts of genocide under his belt by ME3. Cerberus has, arguably, one: the Collectors.

Um, my Shep didn't kill the Rachni, so no genocide for me.

What about the Thorian?

Oh yeah, but that thing needed to be taken down!

[ddv.rsa]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Um, my Shep didn't kill the Rachni, so no genocide for me.

What about the Thorian?

Oh yeah, but/

But but, you still committed genocide. 

[GreenDragon37]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...
I'm all for competition and staying ahead of the other races, but won't sell my soul and betray my values. Also, the National Socialists were devoured and humiliated for what they did. Experiments for the "betterment of Humanity". Hiding behind that old card.

Ah yes. Of course.

You do know that the Allies took N@zi and Japanese experiments and scientists and used it for their own interests right? You know that the USA protected Unit 731 from legal prosecution that used Chinese civilians as test subjects, to get their hands on their research?

Your soul and values hold little value in real politik it seems, I am sorry. People live on greatness and enjoy it, but don't know how that greatness was built and maintained.

Than their souls will rot I hope. If there is corruption, I'll stop it. And if people are willing to go to such lengths to win, than what are we fighting for? Certainly not Humanity.

[GreenDragon37]

ddv.rsa wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Um, my Shep didn't kill the Rachni, so no genocide for me.

What about the Thorian?

Oh yeah, but/

But but, you still committed genocide. 

On a hostile being that tried to kill me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

GreenDragon37 wrote...
Than their souls will rot I hope. If there is corruption, I'll stop it. And if people are willing to go to such lengths to win, than what are we fighting for? Certainly not Humanity.

And what is "humanity" other than a sentient species of highly evolved primate mammals and political animals?

Survival, dominance and power. When it comes to the Reapers (and I'd argue, ultimately everything else) war with them revolves around only this. Everything else is moral white wash in an attempt to demonize the "evil" other and sanctify "our" cause.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 avril 2011 - 10:07 .