742 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

They conducted risky research on biotics, research which paid off.

And I do not forgive this entity to have conducted experiments on humans, it is not protecting humans, it's madness.

They expanded human influence on Trident.

How please ? I just heard that they made monstrous experiments on biotics.

They got the Alliance to build the Normandy, the most advanced and radical ship in the galaxy, and in the process enabled us to witness turian ship building practices.

The desire to help the Alliance to make a normandy with Turians is not AT ALL altruistic. They encouraged the alliance because they wanted her to get Turian's wonderful level to the design of ships for themselves when the'll steal informations, since the alliance has learned. That's how Normandy 2 was born.

Cerberus has done that for Itself.


They prevented batarian terrorists from killing the Council.

OK.

　Eliminated troubling politicians and leaders who were a burden/threat to human interests like a certain Pope and a turian hawk

They killed politicians, just to see their fictitious companies, not be affected by a tax, killed a politician in favour of a weaker candidate they could manipulated to their ideas, killed the pope because he threatened their thoughts of human hegemony, limit their influence over the people. No, their interests not those of humanity.
They developed a weapon to use against the geth in the event of war.

Can you tell me what weapon ?

They located several Prothean and geth technologies useful in furthering our understanding of biotics and communications.

yeah, but this searh it's for Them, their interest.

They saved humanity from the Collectors.

It's Shepard and his alien' squad that saved humanity, but they participated, yes. However, like I said : 

Collectors, is the only thing that could get their attention. But even all this is wasted because Cerberus has not yet been able to resist this will to power, to sacrifice everything at any price. We do not win with this strategy.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 avril 2011 - 11:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

armass wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Than their souls will rot I hope. If there is corruption, I'll stop it. And if people are willing to go to such lengths to win, than what are we fighting for? Certainly not Humanity.

I'm always both bemused and perplexed by the number of people who, when showed countless historic examples of barbarity, ruthlessness, hypocrisy, and subterfuge, proceed on to claim that these are not intrensic and timeless characteristics of 'Humanity', as if they were added vices to an otherwise pure and noble idea.

We have a potential to get better, we are still after all in our infancy as species.

How ironic that the people who thought they can create a "new man" ended up being the most barbarous and violent of the bunch.

[Dave666]

Sylvianus wrote...

They developed a weapon to use against the geth in the event of war.

Can you tell me what weapon ?

Project Overlord, you know, the one that backfired and if not for Shepard would have crippled all computers and electronics everywhere in the Galaxy.

[Sylvianus]

This is not only to save humanity as it has been done is still a kind of megalomania that Cerberus wants to control everything. An army of Geth that meets his power, his orders.

[Dave666]

Sylvianus wrote...

This is not only to save humanity as it has been done is still a kind of megalomania that Cerberus wants to control everything. An army of Geth that meets his power, his orders.

If it had actually worked it would have been slavery.  The Geth are sentient and Project Overlord would simply have enslaved them to do Cerberus's bidding.

[ExtremeOne]

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

[quote]thurmanator692 wrote...

So, How reliable is that issue of GI? Did they confirm specifically that base-keepers are going to be attacked by Cerberus?

Also, why are people trying to say that what Cerberus does is the 'good thing'? They know what they do is horrible, but they do it anyways. saying that they're the good guys actually goes against what they themselves say.[/quote]

I think Cerberus will put Shepard in a position where they'll attack him either way.

[/quote   



Oh I am sorry where the hell was the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 . Thats right they were too busy spying on Shepard and planning on going after him because he was brought back to life by Cerberus. Cerberus was spending money and man power to build a new Normandy and get Shepard the info and power to destroy the collectors and stop the reapers. So the idea that the Alliance is some all mighty good bunch of people is a F**king joke. Anderson basically admitted to spying on Shepard and turned on him in 2 . The VS were Alliance spies sent to dig up info on Shepard from horizon. Cerberus gets Sh*t done and they are the ones that defeated the Collectors. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Dave666 wrote...


Eliminated troubling politicians and leaders who were a burden/threat to human interests like a certain Pope and a turian hawk.(Which helped Cerberus not Humanity in general)

If by 'helped Cerberus and not Humanity' you mean 'significantly improved relations with two of the dominant species'.

Generally political relations favor the bigger populaces they represent more than secret groups without representation.

They conducted risky research on biotics, research which paid off. (which killed countless biotics which might have helped us against the Reapers and produced one unstable super biotic who's dying.)

First, it wasn't countless. Second, we're all dying. Third, that super biotic was of a necessary to do exceptional things that even well-trained, conventional biotics, can't.

They got the Alliance to build the Normandy, the most advanced and radical ship in the galaxy, and in the process enabled us to witness turian ship building practices.(Again for their own interests, so they could gain Turian Tech, the fact that it helped Humanity was a byproduct, not the goal itself).

Citation needed, especially since Cerberus's stated goal s include benefits to humanity and the Alliance.

There actually wasn't technology given to the Alliance: that can be stolen easily enough. What was learned was ship-building techniques, which is far more valuable to economies of scale (the Alliance) than small groups (Cerberus).

They developed a weapon to use against the geth in the event of war.(Which backfired in a splendid fashion and nearly crippled all of civilization).

And the Alliance nearly failed to beat Sovereign: it doesn't mean it did, nor does it mean it was without ultimate potential benefit.

They located several Prothean and geth technologies useful in furthering our understanding of biotics and communications.(And kept them to themselves rather than passing on these benefits to Humanity).

Actually, Cerberus prothean research goes directly to the Alliance via the Milky Way Foundation, which is a widely respected and reputable charity organization that the Alliance employs in high-value Prothean research sites like the Mars ruins. If the Milky Way Foundation did not produce and share results, it wouldn't be employed.

Nor is there really much to support a claim of exclusivity by Cerberus: what, exactly does Cerberus keep from the Alliance that we can say the Alliance absolutely does not have but would otherwise use?

They saved humanity from the Collectors. (They helped Shepard do that, they didn't do it themselves).

Both were integral for doing so, so they can well claim the credit for being a necessary, voluntary component that did something no one else was intending to do.

[ExtremeOne]

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Someone With Mass wrote...

[quote]thurmanator692 wrote...

So, How reliable is that issue of GI? Did they confirm specifically that base-keepers are going to be attacked by Cerberus?

Also, why are people trying to say that what Cerberus does is the 'good thing'? They know what they do is horrible, but they do it anyways. saying that they're the good guys actually goes against what they themselves say.[/quote]

I think Cerberus will put Shepard in a position where they'll attack him either way.

[/quote   








Oh I am sorry where the hell was the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 . Thats right they were too busy spying on Shepard and planning on going after him because he was brought back to life by Cerberus. Cerberus was spending money and man power to build a new Normandy and get Shepard the info and power to destroy the collectors and stop the reapers. So the idea that the Alliance is some all mighty good bunch of people is a F**king joke. Anderson basically admitted to spying on Shepard and turned on him in 2 . The VS were Alliance spies sent to dig up info on Shepard from horizon. Cerberus gets Sh*t done and they are the ones that defeated the Collectors. 

[ExtremeOne]

Oh I am sorry where the hell was the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 . Thats right they were too busy spying on Shepard and planning on going after him because he was brought back to life by Cerberus. Cerberus was spending money and man power to build a new Normandy and get Shepard the info and power to destroy the collectors and stop the reapers. So the idea that the Alliance is some all mighty good bunch of people is a F**king joke. Anderson basically admitted to spying on Shepard and turned on him in 2 . The VS were Alliance spies sent to dig up info on Shepard from horizon. Cerberus gets Sh*t done and they are the ones that defeated the Collectors.

[Dean_the_Young]

armass wrote...

We have a potential to get better, we are still after all in our infancy as species.

Then we will be something other than humanity, then.

[Someone With Mass]

ExtremeOne wrote...


Oh I am sorry where the hell was the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 . Thats right they were too busy spying on Shepard and planning on going after him because he was brought back to life by Cerberus. Cerberus was spending money and man power to build a new Normandy and get Shepard the info and power to destroy the collectors and stop the reapers. So the idea that the Alliance is some all mighty good bunch of people is a F**king joke. Anderson basically admitted to spying on Shepard and turned on him in 2 . The VS were Alliance spies sent to dig up info on Shepard from horizon. Cerberus gets Sh*t done and they are the ones that defeated the Collectors.

In case you didn't notice, Shepard was operating within the Terminus system, where the Alliance isn't welcome. As in, they can trigger a full scale war if they send ships in there.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dave666 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

This is not only to save humanity as it has been done is still a kind of megalomania that Cerberus wants to control everything. An army of Geth that meets his power, his orders.

If it had actually worked it would have been slavery.  The Geth are sentient and Project Overlord would simply have enslaved them to do Cerberus's bidding.

Uh, no. That's not how the Overlord VI works in regards to the Geth.

The Overlord VI gives the Geth a figure they want to follow. It plays on their religious inclinations (which, for another topic, may imply that non-religious geth would not be effected), and its those religious inclinations that lead the Geth to follow. While other, dumb, muchs can be hacked by the Virus, that's not what occurs with the Geth, who are constantly refreshed and auto-corrected. The Geth are not forced: they want to follow, just as they wanted to follow Sovereign.

This is as much slavery as if Jesus showed up in all His glory on the battlefield and told you to stop fighting... and maybe shift fire over there.

They are not being compelled against their will: their own will compells them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Someone With Mass wrote...
In case you didn't notice, Shepard was operating within the Terminus system, where the Alliance isn't welcome. As in, they can trigger a full scale war if they send ships in there.

Except the Alliance ends up sending raids against the Batarians and apparently doesn't give a ****. One of the missions was done by the frigate "Ain Jalout".

[Someone With Mass]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Except the Alliance ends up sending raids against the Batarians and apparently doesn't give a ****. One of the missions was done by the frigate "Ain Jalout".

I think that one was a stealth frigate like the Normandy, though.

[Sylvianus]

Cerberus thinks only gain power. He really does not follow his ideal of the past, that I endured.

Experiments on humans biotics,  ambush soldiers in Akuzei, experiments on them,  on Rachni on the Geth, murders of politicians who interfere with their actions, their influence, threatening their funding, even actions which appear in the right direction, it's all for them, for TIM.

Everything that is done is to assimilate the most power possible, more intelligence, more weapons, the more resource. A long-term goal that seeks domination of Cerberus.

Cerberus IS humanity. What does that mean ? Humanity will submit to Cerberus in power or will not.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 avril 2011 - 11:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Someone With Mass wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Except the Alliance ends up sending raids against the Batarians and apparently doesn't give a ****. One of the missions was done by the frigate "Ain Jalout".

I think that one was a stealth frigate like the Normandy, though.

Both Anderson and Udina publically threaten the Batarians with similar raids if they don't desist with WMD programmes.

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Except the Alliance ends up sending raids against the Batarians and apparently doesn't give a ****. One of the missions was done by the frigate "Ain Jalout".

I think that one was a stealth frigate like the Normandy, though.

Yes, it was.  The news story specifically mentions that.

[ExtremeOne]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...


Oh I am sorry where the hell was the Alliance in Mass Effect 2 . Thats right they were too busy spying on Shepard and planning on going after him because he was brought back to life by Cerberus. Cerberus was spending money and man power to build a new Normandy and get Shepard the info and power to destroy the collectors and stop the reapers. So the idea that the Alliance is some all mighty good bunch of people is a F**king joke. Anderson basically admitted to spying on Shepard and turned on him in 2 . The VS were Alliance spies sent to dig up info on Shepard from horizon. Cerberus gets Sh*t done and they are the ones that defeated the Collectors.

In case you didn't notice, Shepard was operating within the Terminus system, where the Alliance isn't welcome. As in, they can trigger a full scale war if they send ships in there.

  





Oh so is that all the Alliance gives a dam about not starting war. What it boils down to the Alliance does not give a dam about humanity.  Cerberus atleast gave a dam about Shepard and humanity 

[Someone With Mass]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Both Anderson and Udina publically threaten the Batarians with similar raids if they don't desist with WMD programmes.

The Terminus system isn't just batarians, though. I don't think anyone else there gives a crap about the blinks.

[Someone With Mass]

ExtremeOne wrote...
Oh so is that all the Alliance gives a dam about not starting war. What it boils down to the Alliance does not give a dam about humanity.  Cerberus atleast gave a dam about Shepard and humanity 

Can you even understand the consequences of starting fights left and right?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Someone With Mass wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Both Anderson and Udina publically threaten the Batarians with similar raids if they don't desist with WMD programmes.

The Terminus system isn't just batarians, though. I don't think anyone else there gives a crap about the blinks.

They are united in their opposition to the Council. If one of them is attacked, that can be seen as a provocation, add to that the public threat. That's certainly much more than sending a small fleet to protect human colonies from Geth or collectors. But in 2 years, they send Ash / Kaidan and build a few turrets (and think it's Cerberus that is responsable to boot). Bravo. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 19 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[didymos1120]

Someone With Mass wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
Oh so is that all the Alliance gives a dam about not starting war. What it boils down to the Alliance does not give a dam about humanity.  Cerberus atleast gave a dam about Shepard and humanity 

Can you even understand the consequences of starting fights left and right?

Look who you're asking.

[Nashiktal]

So starting a war that would fragment the races right before a reaper attack isn't enough? Well let me put some perspective out here.

What happens if there is war with the terminous systems?

1. Every single damn colony out in the terminous suddenly becomes big, vulnerable targets. No more pirate raids, we are talking actual invasions and conquering. What happens when batarians conquer? They take slaves. Its part of their culture.

2. Both sides in the terminous wars will weaken each other. Ships will be lost, meaning less to use against the reapers. Not to mention this moves our fleet away from the core colonies.

3. The reapers win.Yay!