742 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

didymos1120 wrote...

Look who you're asking.

Good point.

[ExtremeOne]

Sylvianus wrote...


Cerberus thinks only gain power. He really does not follow his ideal of the past, that I endured.

Experiments on humans biotics,  ambush soldiers in Akuzei, experiments on them,  on Rachni on the Geth, murders of politicians who interfere with their actions, their influence, threatening their funding, even actions which appear in the right direction, it's all for them, for TIM.

Everything that is done is to assimilate the most power possible, more intelligence, more weapons, the more resource. A long-term goal that seeks domination of Cerberus.

Cerberus IS humanity. What does that mean ? Humanity will submit to Cerberus in power or will not.

 




Cerberus gives a F**king dam about humanity and wants to help it.  The Alliance care to much about ball washing the aliens and keeping the peace. well guess what in war there is blood shed and death. The reapers do not give a dam about anyone. so when a emeny has one goal and that is the total destruction of the human race.  I will do what ever it takes to save humanity and if that means leeting a bunch of Batarians die to save humanity then so be it. 

[Sylvianus]

That said, I agree that the Alliance has become a shadow of itself. She lost her courage, aggressiveness, efficiency. The Alliance from years 2157 to 2183 was definitely a respected and formidable force despite her inexperience.

Torfan, was the last warning of her capabilities to all those who wanted to attack humanity  without thinking.

Now it has become a bureaucracy, an organization that is now firmly focused on paperwork and political consequences instead of the general interest. They abandoned the human colonies, and only placing weapons on horizon, is certainly not enough.

That's why I understand that by contrast, some have fallen in love with Cerberus.

It was the same for me.

Besides, I believe that with the trial, there will be a lot of people who will even more spit on the Alliance.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 19 avril 2011 - 11:59 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I personally am all in favor of an alliance between the Systems Alliance and Cerberus, even if it's secret. A bureaucracy that handles politics and the big picture is necessary. And a secretive organization to handle the dirty work and still keep the Alliance's rep relatively clean is also necessary.

I do not see the two as mutually exclusive. Though ideally, I'd bring Cerberus under closer scrutiny.

But I do not hate the Alliance. Nor do I view Cerberus as its enemy necessarily.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[AdmiralCheez]

jbblue05 wrote...

It would be more wiser for Anderson to do this post-reaper war

Okay, yeah, sure, let's just sit back and let Cerberus cause some chaos while we wait for the Reapers to get here.

Alliance= cooperation and unity  Cerberus= domination alien oppression

You're still doing it wrong.  The Alliance stands for humanity's political and military interests.  Cerberus stands for "human dominance."

So why would the Alliance be OK with the Turians sticking their talos in the the Alliance pie

Hell yeah!  The turians can stick their talons into my pie all night long!

Oh.

Wait.

You meant politics.

Erm, no.  Cooperation is not the same as letting people walk all over you.  You can be diplomatic without being a pushover.

According to the Turians Were some of these Alliance officials really with Cerberus or were they political obstacles that he Turians wanted to get out of the way

According to the data seized and shared by Anderson.  They didn't attack anything not on the list of Cerberus hideouts.

look at the similarities that's how the Alliance branded Cerberus terrotists
I did play ME1 I just don't believe the first thing I hear.

If you played ME1, then Cerberus terrorists branded themselves.  Or do you not remember the husks, creepers, and rachni?  Not to mention all the goons shooting at you...  Son, at this point you're just deluding yourself.  Really.

And yeah, the Taetran seperatists were terrorists.  They blew up an entire city and bragged about it.  Not evil, but their leader was an egomaniacal ass.  Kinda like TIM, only louder and angrier.

Do you think the Turians and Anderson were extreme in their actions against Cerberus.?

Yes, but only because they moved too quickly.  Should have been slower and smarter about it.  Higher chance of success and less political hooplah.  I don't disagree with it in principle, though--it was just poorly timed and executed.

Cerberus still has that MAC  that one-shotted a reaper.
If TIM lost that weapon I'm sure the book would mention it.
Cerberus could be fighting the Reapers and trying to kill SHepard

Is said MAC still functional?  Can it be feasibly reverse-engineered?  Was it even mentioned outside of "lol so we found a dead reaper?"

Fighting the Reapers or no, Cerberus is no longer interested in helping you.  Which is unfortunte, since you're the one saving the galaxy.

Screw Anderson; how the hell is TIM gonna justify that?

Just by the book and I don't feellike writing 4-5 paragraphs

Thanks for being a reliable source.  I'll totally believe everything you say now because you've done such a good providing me with evidence. :|

Lets focus on the events preceding and during Retribution.  Not the future 

Why, because it destroys your hopes that Cerberus will be buddy-buddy with Shepard?

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 avril 2011 - 12:06 .

[Sylvianus]

@extremeone : For TIM, humanity must be submitted to Cerberus with its private armies of Geth, super human, or biotics, etc. Yet anyone who threatened Humanity, threat Cerberus, it's the same. The superiority of humanity must be made with Cerberus to commands.

TIM sees the Alliance as an enemy, because he considers that this organization is subject to aliens. The Alliance must be diluted in Cerberus, here's how things should run in his throught. That's why I said that.

But I do not hate the Alliance. Nor do I view Cerberus as its enemy necessarily.

I agree. I would liked Miranda plays a role in rallying a portion of Cerberus. : '( Without TIM of course.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[AdmiralCheez]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I doubt Turian hawks would think that way. It may be a stereotype, but Turians are not known for diplomacy, that's handled by the Asari. Turians generally shoot problems on sight and proudly boast about it.

They shoot their problems, yes, but they don't boast about it.  Besides, the Council would push them to drop it to avoid war.

Yea I know. The point is, they think destroying Cerberus is more valuable than human lives.

To the turians, you mean.  They were protecting their own--Cerberus had, in the past, assassinated their leaders.

I didn't see the Alliance sending military aid to Taetrus.  Cite if I'm wrong.

If Illium, which is on the borders of the Terminus systems, got attacked. Do you seriously think the Turians are going to say no to the Asari?

Nobody says no to magical brainginas.  It ain't fair, but that's how she rolls.

I am starting to think the same of the Alliance.

Battle of the Citadel.  Horizon defense measures.  Slow-moving, yeah, but at least they get stuff done eventually.

Come on, kiddies, speed it up before the Reapers get here!

It could be the writers fell on their heads and decided to make Cerberus as idiotic as the rest. would be a shame. Oh well.

I think it's a bit too late for that.  They were a bit Team Rockety to begin with.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
They shoot their problems, yes, but they don't boast about it.  Besides, the Council would push them to drop it to avoid war.

Would they (especially in a human led council)? See now we are betting on what the others would do. No one founds a foreign policy on this.

It's never a good idea to appear weak. And then hope that the others won't take advantage of it in one way or the other. 

To the turians, you mean.  They were protecting their own--Cerberus had, in the past, assassinated their leaders.

It was made to look like an accident, they didn't even know.

I didn't see the Alliance sending military aid to Taetrus.  Cite if I'm wrong.

Why would they? Did the Turians request aid (cite if they did)? I bet that if the Alliance went in unilaterally without telling the Turians, the hierarchy would be rightfully extremily pissed off. This was their affair.

I think it's a bit too late for that.  They were a bit Team Rockety to begin with.

Never had that impression.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 avril 2011 - 12:20 .

[didymos1120]

Sylvianus wrote...
 They abandoned the human colonies, and only placing weapons on horizon, is certainly not enough.

You've got that the wrong way round: those people abandoned the Alliance for a life in the Terminus, where Council Space powers tread lightly if at all.

[ExtremeOne]

Sylvianus wrote...

@extremeone : For TIM, humanity must be submitted to Cerberus with its private armies of Geth, super human, or biotics, etc. Yet anyone who threatened Humanity, threat Cerberus, it's the same. The superiority of humanity must be made with Cerberus to commands.

TIM sees the Alliance as an enemy, because he considers that this organization is subject to aliens. The Alliance must be diluted in Cerberus, here's how things should run in his throught. That's why I said that.

But I do not hate the Alliance. Nor do I view Cerberus as its enemy necessarily.

I agree. I would liked Miranda plays a role in rallying a portion of Cerberus. : '( Without TIM of course.

  




I have a theory that some where in ME 3 Miranda's father who is a backer of Cerberus will either force TIM out of power in Cerberus or will lead a coup against him after learning that Cerberus is after Shepard for no reason and install Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus and She will usher in a new Cerberus that is different from TIM 's version .  Cerberus is ruthless and cares about humanity 

[AdmiralCheez]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Would they (especially in a human led council)? See now we are betting on what the others would do. No one founds a foreign policy on this.

One attack =/= foreign policy.  And yes, we have entered Speculationville.

It's never a good idea to appear weak. And then hope that the others won't take advantage of it in one way or the other.

One can make a pretty good living appearing weak. *sharp inhale* Never see me coming.

And like I said before, Anderson really couldn't solve this problem without help from a third party.

It was made to look like an accident, they didn't even know.

Yes, but we know Cerberus has done more than what's in those logs, so even if that one was ruled as an accident, who's to say some other assassin didn't get caught?  And they knew about the Trident torture camps well enough.

Why would they? Did the Turians request aid (cite if they did)? I bet that if the Alliance went in unilaterally without telling the Turians, the hierarchy would be rightfully extremily pissed off. This was their affair.

Precisely why Udina should stop b*tching about the lack of turian ships protecting human colonies.

Additionally, Cerberus was a threat to the hierarchy.  While storming multiple Cerberus bases at once was a bit overkill and a political snafu, they were indeed looking out for their own interests.

Never had that impression.

"Hey!  Let's try using these rachni as shock troopers!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

"Hey!  Let's try using these creepers as shock troopers!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

"Hey!  Let's infuse an autistic kid with the geth so we can learn synethetic mind control!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

And so on and so forth.

[Sylvianus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
 They abandoned the human colonies, and only placing weapons on horizon, is certainly not enough.

You've got that the wrong way round: those people abandoned the Alliance for a life in the Terminus, where Council Space powers tread lightly if at all.

You're right. Well, there is a reason why I say that.  "abandoned"

Because these people have left the Alliance's space, they can't receive help ? Ok. It's their fault.

But how the Alliance can unite all humanity behind her, if she turns her back when you call for help ?  

The first concern of the alliance is to continue its expansion, continue to represent humanity. Politically it's really a bad sign. Moreover, it's because the alliance was wrong on this one,  it finally changed strategy.

Human settlements are not covered because helpless, or another else, but because they are humans. it is a threat against humanity. That's what made ​​the Alliance changed their minds on this threat, that 's why Cerberus was able to recruit disappointed  mens or women of the Alliance.

Im' sure that Asari are ready to come to Ilium and defend it if Pirates or Batarians launch a massive attack on the colony and that it is unable to fight them.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 avril 2011 - 12:42 .

[AdmiralCheez]

@Sylvianus: The problem is that people out on the Terminus systems don't want Alliance help. Remember the collective b*tching on Horizon? The Alliance had to practically bully them into letting them put up those guns.

[didymos1120]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

"Hey!  Let's try using these creepers as shock troopers!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

That one wasn't Cerberus.  They just bought a few off Exogeni for study (it's in the logs found on Feros). We only see them in a Cerberus facility during the Kahoku questline.  The colony that got hosed by creepers was in fact owned and operated by ExoGeni.  Hell, the quest is called "UNC: ExoGeni Facility". 

ETA: And actually, it's heavily implied that you killing the thorian is what set them off.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 avril 2011 - 12:47 .

[AdmiralCheez]

@didymos1120: Oops.  Thanks.  I remember now.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 20 avril 2011 - 12:49 .

[Seboist]

The reason why the creepers went ape **** in that Exogeni facility was because Shep killed the Thorian.

[Sylvianus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Sylvianus: The problem is that people out on the Terminus systems don't want Alliance help. Remember the collective b*tching on Horizon? The Alliance had to practically bully them into letting them put up those guns.

Yeah that's true. Damn. 

it's really complicated. Just see that hundreds of thousands of humans kidnapped, it's pretty shocking.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 avril 2011 - 12:53 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
One attack =/= foreign policy.  And yes, we have entered Speculationville.

An attack that big is axiomatically part of Turian foreign policy, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered.

One can make a pretty good living appearing weak. *sharp inhale* Never see me coming.

Not as a state no. Nor in a  similar political context.

And like I said before, Anderson really couldn't solve this problem without help from a third party.

The problem didn't need to be solved by him. His single-mindedness does him no credit.

Yes, but we know Cerberus has done more than what's in those logs, so even if that one was ruled as an accident, who's to say some other assassin didn't get caught?  And they knew about the Trident torture camps well enough.

Speculation. Nothing indicates that the Turians knew or had that strong of an inclination to attack Cerberus just for its own sake, otherwise they would have a long time ago. They don't stand on ceremony.

Precisely why Udina should stop b*tching about the lack of turian ships protecting human colonies.

Except this was an outside entity attacking a member of Council space. Their own rogue specter with a synthetic army to boot. If a NATO member is attacked, they are supposed to "****" about lack of assistance. 

If it was a Salarian or Asari colony, they would have rushed to the rescue.

If however it's an internal affair, then unless they request aid, no one should interfere.

Additionally, Cerberus was a threat to the hierarchy.  While storming multiple Cerberus bases at once was a bit overkill and a political snafu, they were indeed looking out for their own interests.

In the immediate run, it wasn't. And even if it was, they should not have done so without Alliance knowledge. Their interest is less about dealing a blow to Cerberus and more with dealing a blow to the Alliance and showing them that the Turians are the real "problem solvers"

And my problem is not with the Turians. If I was a Turian and I saw a chance to deal a decisive blow on humanity and show them who is boss, I would have done the exact same thing. Plus, they do not know about the Reapers, so don't have to worry about armageddon. My problem is with Anderson thinking this is a good idea.

"Hey!  Let's try using these rachni as shock troopers!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

"Hey!  Let's try using these creepers as shock troopers!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

"Hey!  Let's infuse an autistic kid with the geth so we can learn synethetic mind control!  Oh no, they are getting loose and killing everyone!"

Calculated risks. High benefits, with relatively low risks in comparision (yes, they didn't pose that much of a threat, except Overlord. the benefits however far outweight the risks).

[Badpie]

Cerberus = Alliance. I'm telling you. Not that you didn't already know.

[Aggie Punbot]

Damn it; this is what happens when I leave a page open for two hours before I respond. Ninja'd.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 20 avril 2011 - 01:55 .

[NKKKK]

I think we can all agree that Shepard needs to be God-Emperor of humanity and remove this silly Alliance and Cerberus things.

[ExtremeOne]

NKKKK wrote...

I think we can all agree that Shepard needs to be God-Emperor of humanity and remove this silly Alliance and Cerberus things.

  



I am all for that I would love to see My Shepard as The Emperor of the new Mass Effect world after 3 

[NKKKK]

Sadly there's no fan art of such a thing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

If we get to father 20 babies, preferably with 20 different partners, I am all for it.

[NKKKK]

Lawl that sounds familiar