742 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluko]

How is this thread 21 pages long?!  Unbelievable!

To further facilitate discussion and prove Anderson is a "good guy" I shall reveal to you this ME3 spoiler:

Captain Anderson is Mr. Potato Head.


I know right? But only Anderson has the spuds  to deal with the Reapers. Reapers ain't making french fries out of us to go with their smoothies!

Modifié par Bluko, 20 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

That one wasn't Cerberus.  They just bought a few off Exogeni for study (it's in the logs found on Feros). We only see them in a Cerberus facility during the Kahoku questline.  The colony that got hosed by creepers was in fact owned and operated by ExoGeni.  Hell, the quest is called "UNC: ExoGeni Facility". 

ETA: And actually, it's heavily implied that you killing the thorian is what set them off.

I hadn't been thinking that for quite while, but finally came to conclusion that Dr. Ross' team was in fact a Cerberus team, operating under cover of the ExoGeni corp. At least it was intended so, until some thing got mixed up with the "Colony of the Dead" quest.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2678749

[NKKKK]

Just like how Elias Torn was supposed to be a Turian.

That was a major **** up in Mass Effect 1, I know humans are opportunist, but for one to rise up as warlord so quickly and then attack human colonies is just weird.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

That one wasn't Cerberus.  They just bought a few off Exogeni for study (it's in the logs found on Feros). We only see them in a Cerberus facility during the Kahoku questline.  The colony that got hosed by creepers was in fact owned and operated by ExoGeni.  Hell, the quest is called "UNC: ExoGeni Facility". 

ETA: And actually, it's heavily implied that you killing the thorian is what set them off.

I hadn't been thinking that for quite while, but finally came to conclusion that Dr. Ross' team was in fact a Cerberus team, operating under cover of the ExoGeni corp. At least it was intended so, until some thing got mixed up with the "Colony of the Dead" quest.

http://social.biowar...5/index/2678749

For anyone who wants to dismiss Zulu because he's Zulu... don't. That thread he links is solidly reasoned, and would straighten up some of the contradictory ambiguity surrounding Cerberus in ME1. A pre-release minor mixup that may have been intended to be something else... much like how ME2 was created with the expectation of being able to recruit in any order, until they hit the two-disc problem.

[NKKKK]

I think some of Zulu's theories are actually quite sound, I just poke fun at his tinfoil hat wearing self.

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

For anyone who wants to dismiss Zulu because he's Zulu... don't. That thread he links is solidly reasoned

Lol, I actually retconned it! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

[NKKKK]

So, what do you guys think of having an army of Krogan, Rachni and Humans as your personal army in the new Citadel empire?

[Sajuro]

NKKKK wrote...

So, what do you guys think of having an army of Krogan, Rachni and Humans as your personal army in the new Citadel empire?

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/5753835/1

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If Dr. Ross's team was meant to be Cerberus she'd have said so. Remember that we actually did talk with her. Neither she, nor Shepard, ever mention Cerberus. I don't think it is a mix-up at all.

Why would she mention Cerberus? She was trying to buy Shepard's silence anyway...

[darknoon5]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

If Dr. Ross's team was meant to be Cerberus she'd have said so. Remember that we actually did talk with her. Neither she, nor Shepard, ever mention Cerberus. I don't think it is a mix-up at all.

Why would she mention Cerberus? She was trying to buy Shepard's silence anyway...

I'm sure as an Alliance marine he would have been very interested in information on cerberus, especially if he had done the rachni quests, as well as Kahoku's quest.

[Dean_the_Young]

Going off of Zulu's pretty reasonable suggestion that the Exo-Geni project may have had Cerberus links, I am once again annoyed that killing the Thorian was a mandatory action for an arbitrary plot McGuffin.

I maintain that, having fought the Thorian fight and beat its clones, it should have made one last attempt to save itself: if you spare it, and accept the loss of whatever colonists remain infected as its personal thralls, it offers up the Cypher in exchange, though what the Cypher is, and why it would in the least be useful, is not given: only that Saren wanted it for his own reasons, which he didn't share.

Paragon Shepard refuses to make the deal and sacrifice the Human Colonists to slavery, and says he/she will make do without it. Killing the Thorian frees the Colonists, and Shiala, just like canon Shepard, and a free Shiala gives the Cypher.

When Shepard talks to the Council, the Turian lambasts Shepard for genocide in defense of a human colony, the Salarian notes that the Thorian, if studied properly, could have been useful, while the Asari plays peacemaker and says it's good it all resolved for the best and the colony was saved. When Shepard gets back to the Citadel, Udina praises Shepard for saving the colony, while Anderson offers a warning that, while Shepard lucked out with getting the cipher anyway, such fortune won't always fall in Shepard's lap if the hard choices aren't made. A note made inbetween is that, with the Thorian itself dead, studying its corpse and creepers is unlikely to produce much in the way of results. Its secrets died with it.

Renegade Shepard takes the deal, and at the same time avoids the genocide of the last of a species, in order to track down Saren. Saren's the true threat, and killing the Thorian at this point when it could be crucial to bringing Saren down isn't expedient. A possessed Shiala gives the cypher, and Shepard is free to leave.

When the Council is briefed, the Turian Councilor, always hostile, blasts Shepard for not dealing with the Thorian and letting the colony be destroyed. The Salarian Councilor makes an optimistic note of being able to study the Thorian and its thralls, and the Asari notes that, while the Human loss was tragic, at least a unique species was not genocided. When Shepard returns to the Citadel, Anderson backs Shepard's choice as a necessary action, and that at least Shepard avoided genocide: Udina, angry, snaps that they seem to both be forgetting that a human colony has not simply been wiped out, but the survivors enslaved, and storms out.



Following Feros, the ExoGeni research site depends on the results of Feros. If the Thorian was killed, the results are the same as canon.

If the Thorian was NOT killed, however, Shepard investigates a facility with many largely docile creepers. Upon confronting the scientists about the source of the Creepers, ExoGeni's scientists admit to knowing that the Colonists were sacrificed for this project. However, without the Thorian's death they have been successful: the Creepers can be controlled, can be employed for high-risk manual labor, and even made into Shock-Trooper canon fodder in the future.

Paragon option is to arrest the ExoGeni scientists for the crimes against the colonists of Feros, which leads to a battle against the colonists and all the Thorian Creepers you passed.
Renegade option is to allow the experiments to continue uninterrupted: the costs have already been paid, and no fight is necessary. (Equivalent to the Biotic Cult mission.)


Where it would all really come into play, however, is that the Shadow Broker tells Kohaku (who tells us) that super-soldier experiment is making progress with successful modification/engineering of the Thorian Creepers. If/when Shepard attacks the Cerberus base, a new creature is there: Thorian Creepers modified with Rachni and Husk components (effectively Thorian Creepers who can spit acid, and have the blue-lines/cybernetics of husks). Cerberus has actually produced a shock troop creation to throw in mass at enemies, and if left alone will even perfect the research.

Doing the final mission in the chain (the one after finding Kohaku) destroys the Cerberus super-soldier project, with Cerberus security deleting all the data they could send away. Not doing it, doesn't: either way, Cerberus keeps enough to make shock troopers, but in one it's better. This has 'consequences' in ME2 and ME3: in ME2, there's a news report either about Kohaku's death that may mention the destruction of the 'mad science project', or there's a report about security reports suggesting that 'a human supremacist group' suspected to be involved in the Admiral's death is building an army. There's also the matter of the Shiala cameo to deal with: if the Thorian is killed, it's the same as canon. Health problems following the Thorian's death. If the Thorian is spared, however, it's a controlled Shiala clone who's out there: the Thorian commissioned the health studies because it wants to take care of its tools and keep them performing well, and doesn't want them taken advantage of by anything other than itself. Upon completing the quest, the Thorian/Ambassador thanks Shepard for its assistance, and promises future aid when the Reapers return.

Come ME3, Shock Troops, should they exist, are another potential attribute to boost Cerberus's power in whatever relevance that has to gameplay calculations. In the same sense that rewriting the Heretics makes the Geth stronger (say, boosting from an arbitrary two-army strength to three), or breaking up/preserving the Flotilla might change the Quarian strength ( ranging from one to three), allowing Cerberus to make Shock Troopers to fight the Reaper masses is another option besides the base to give Cerberus power (Base 1 strength, +1 for the Shock Troopers interrupted, +2 if the Shock Trooper project is not interrupted and free to grow in full, +2 for the base).




Besides the whole extra-variable and choices-after-choices, the story choice would also make clear the differing priorities for Shepard when it comes to Genocide (which, as it is now, even Paragon will do regardless whenever the plot demands it). Having a case in which the Paragon route involves Genocide (the Thorian), and in which the Renegade route employs genocide (the Rachni), the two-differing genocide choices also balance out eachother when it comes to 'free armies' in Mass Effect 3, as well as making Cerberus more reasonably relevant.

When you spare the Rachni, for example, that's a free Paragon ally come ME3: the Rachni are grateful, and have their own history with the Reapers. Understandable. When/if the Thorian is spared, that can be a free Renegade ally come ME3: the Thorian doesn't want to be killed, has its own grudge against theReapers, and it's cooperation is much less benign but no less real.

And in terms of Cerberus, now we actually have a basis to believe that, when the Reapers come, Cerberus can offer something of note. Not as much as the main races, unless you pimp them out, but not insiginficantly small either: you can have a hundred agents all you want, but if you control an army of canon fodder, that's pretty relevant... and can also continue to shape people's views of Cerberus and it's threat.

Thoughts?


Edit: Starting a thread of its own.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 20 avril 2011 - 03:10 .

[Meshakhad2]

mrsph wrote...

I can't hate Keith David.

The man fought the Thing.

And he might be able to get some help from his friends on the other side.

[ExtremeOne]

I want Anderson dead but if I can not get that I want beat the living **** out of him in 3.

[darknoon5]

ExtremeOne wrote...

I want Anderson dead but if I can not get that I want beat the living **** out of him in 3.

You want to do this to one of Sheps's few remaining frends, but want to marry the woman who wanted to implant Shepard and worship the man who betrayed Shepard (oh, and is now trying to kill him, as well as all those murders, tests and tortures he's responsible for)?

[Lapis Lazuli]

I didn't read the linked thread on the connection between exogeni and cerberus but I was already under the impression that it is literally establised in ME1. You get the Matano/Maroon Sea mission from a terminal on the upper level of the exogeni facility. The terminal tells you exogeni and cerberus are connected. (I'm prolly repeating what is already in the linked thread).

[ExtremeOne]

darknoon5 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

I want Anderson dead but if I can not get that I want beat the living **** out of him in 3.

You want to do this to one of Sheps's few remaining frends, but want to marry the woman who wanted to implant Shepard and worship the man who betrayed Shepard (oh, and is now trying to kill him, as well as all those murders, tests and tortures he's responsible for)?

  




Anderson betrayed My Shepard when he sent spies to spy on him on horzion and when he spoke to him about it there was no real way to get even .  You dam right My Shepard wants to marry Miranda.  He has to pay for his actions from 2 . Bioware robbed My Shepard of any real rvenege in 2 . He may be a friend to your Shepard but he is a enemy of mine and will be dealt with one way or another. 

[darknoon5]

ExtremeOne wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

I want Anderson dead but if I can not get that I want beat the living **** out of him in 3.

You want to do this to one of Sheps's few remaining frends, but want to marry the woman who wanted to implant Shepard and worship the man who betrayed Shepard (oh, and is now trying to kill him, as well as all those murders, tests and tortures he's responsible for)?

  




Anderson betrayed My Shepard when he sent spies to spy on him on horzion and when he spoke to him about it there was no real way to get even .  You dam right My Shepard wants to marry Miranda.  He has to pay for his actions from 2 . Bioware robbed My Shepard of any real rvenege in 2 . He may be a friend to your Shepard but he is a enemy of mine and will be dealt with one way or another. 

Whether you like him or not, it is idiotic to attack and kill a man who is not only fighting the reapers but is ,and has been from the start, supporting Shepard, putting himself in the line of fire.

[Sylvianus]

Mhhh It lacks Anderson here !

Don't **** with him guys !

[ExtremeOne]

darknoon5 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

darknoon5 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

I want Anderson dead but if I can not get that I want beat the living **** out of him in 3.

You want to do this to one of Sheps's few remaining frends, but want to marry the woman who wanted to implant Shepard and worship the man who betrayed Shepard (oh, and is now trying to kill him, as well as all those murders, tests and tortures he's responsible for)?

  




Anderson betrayed My Shepard when he sent spies to spy on him on horzion and when he spoke to him about it there was no real way to get even .  You dam right My Shepard wants to marry Miranda.  He has to pay for his actions from 2 . Bioware robbed My Shepard of any real rvenege in 2 . He may be a friend to your Shepard but he is a enemy of mine and will be dealt with one way or another. 

Whether you like him or not, it is idiotic to attack and kill a man who is not only fighting the reapers but is ,and has been from the start, supporting Shepard, putting himself in the line of fire.

   





Oh I have a reason to kill him. He turned his back on My Shepard. Bioware can write it any dam way they want to but in 3 if I have the chance to get even with him I will do it. Bioware screwed My Shepard out of working with Cerberus which has the same views as I do. You dam right Anderson and Hacket will suffer and pay a price for thinking My Shepard is a friend of the Alliance 

[Zulu_DFA]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why would she mention Cerberus? She was trying to buy Shepard's silence anyway...

Shepard would have at least mentioned it.

Then, Shepard should have mentioned it in any case, if you did that quest after the "Hades Dogs".

Sadly, Shepard isn't allowed to be bright.

[Dante Angelo]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Anderson betrayed My Shepard when he sent spies to spy on him on horzion and when he spoke to him about it there was no real way to get even .  You dam right My Shepard wants to marry Miranda.  He has to pay for his actions from 2 . Bioware robbed My Shepard of any real rvenege in 2 . He may be a friend to your Shepard but he is a enemy of mine and will be dealt with one way or another. 

Anderson didn't turn his back on Shapard in fact he's been defending him

Modifié par Dante Angelo, 20 avril 2011 - 09:48 .

[Nimrodell]

@ ExtremeOne: LOL.
Sorry m8, but your hate made me laugh but honestly, wish I could see your playthrough in ME3 and I hope there will be options that you want. Just brillaint - killing spree with a touch of vengeance lol . Oh, forgot how these forums are funny hehe.