742 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince of Kemet]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?

Because he timely bolted, remember?

Fair enough. Why wasn't he brought up on charges after knocking udina the f**k out and helping Shepard and crew escape in ME1?

[CroGamer002]

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate to say it, Udina might actually be one of the few people shep can trust.

At least he is predictable.

That ahole betrayed you in ME1 and he won't give you Spectre status if you choose him for Councilor and let Council die.


How is that douchebag trustworthy?

[Nashiktal]

Mesina2 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate to say it, Udina might actually be one of the few people shep can trust.

At least he is predictable.

That ahole betrayed you in ME1 and he won't give you Spectre status if you choose him for Councilor and let Council die.


How is that douchebag trustworthy?

You know where his knife is, planted firmly in that angry fist of his.

With Anderson it flies from the shadows, planting itself into your surprised and betrayed back.

[Seboist]

Prince of Kemet wrote...

This question is directed toward the Cerberus supporters.....What would Cerberus have to do before you feel they've gone too far?

Kill Zaeed.

[Prince of Kemet]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

This question is directed toward the Cerberus supporters.....What would Cerberus have to do before you feel they've gone too far?

  



There is nothing Cerberus can do that would ****** Me off because after what Bioware has done to ME 3 with the GI article .  Bioware wants the alliance be this f**king good group of people but yet they are taking Sh*t that does not belong to them and then say oh Cerberus is after Shepard for some so called mystery reason that they for some reason is not willing to tell us . Cerberus is being made the escape goats for Bioware 's utter failuer to create a reaper story that is believe able .  

I don't disagree with your opinion of bioswear but, would you really give Cerberus carte blanche to do whatever they want? Look at  their already dispicable, deplorable track record.

   





Bioware already gave the Alliance ultimate power to do as they desire so yeah why not . If one group can have ultimate and untouchable power. Cerberus can have it as well  

Come on Extreme, look at what they've done already.......the Quarians...Kahoku, Jack...Akuze..the Element Zero incident....God knows what else they've done that we don't know about.

[didymos1120]

Nashiktal wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?

He was going to be, but he ran.

Uh, what?  Udina threatened to have him investigated, and the Alliance was going to put him on administrative leave, but that's as far as it went. Instead, he quit.  Shortly thereafter, he and Kahlee got shanghaied off to Omega.

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?

He was going to be, but he ran.

Uh, what?  Udina threatened to have him investigated, and the Alliance was going to put him on administrative leave, but that's as far as it went. Instead, he quit.  Shortly thereafter, he and Kahlee got shanghaied off to Omega.

In other words, he bolted, before the Alliance had time to sort out the mess he'd created and turn their full attention to his despicable self.

[Halo Quea]

Nashiktal wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

When the chips are down I want a man who will NOT run off to his girlfriend and sacrifice the galaxy to the reapers.

Seriously, why are people ignoring this? He throws away everything humanity and shep has done to get him where he is, especially if he is councilor.

I believe that Anderson thinks he can either: A) Remain a council member and play tug of war with the other council members, making little or nor progress or he can,  Give the council both middle fingers, grab a gun and make something happen. Hmm, I think he may have leaned a little toward B. 

Exactly.  And when we see him actually fighting along side Shepard then this entire discussion will become a moot point.  Besides I would have traded in Zaeed for Anderson as a squad mate in ME2 without a 2nd thought.  

Problem is Anderson would have been a better help leading the citadel races in the defence of the galaxy. 

He is a tired old man for gods sake! Why would I want to waste his years of experience in space combat,  fighting a ground war, when having a LEADER OF THE DAMN CITADEL RACES as an ally would be infinitely better.

Seriously do you realize how old he is? Anderson himself even said the frontlines isn't his place anymore.

Eh, Anderson can handle himself,  and he's only about 46-48 Years Old.  
Born in 2137
ME1-2 events are between 2183-2185

That would put him about 7-8 years ahead of Zaeed, and Zaeed looks older than Anderson lol!

Besides, this is IT. The BIG BATTLE for humanity's survival.  Anderson is a soldier through and through, he's not going to be satisfied with sitting on the sidelines in an office on the Citadel while Earth is being raped.

[Prince of Kemet]

My esteemed colleagues, we will have to continue this later.......work calls......I did however enjoy this spirited debate.....let's do it again.

[Tennessee88]

NKKKK wrote...

First off, most of you aren't in the military, I think you should stop waving capital offence like it's your dong. I''m in the military, and I''m pretty sure saving the world over the interests of your country goes beyond what a soldier is trained to do.
Second, who are you pathetic humans to judge the actions of one man, maybe there are things a bit bigger than the Alliance and Cerberus at stake here. So you're whole Cerberus/Alliance fanboyism is really just beyond silly. 
Anderson isn't Shepard, he doesn't know what Cerberus has done except for the bad things, If i was in his positon, I would have done the same thing.
Thirdly, at the end of the novel he saved a boy's life in a paragon interrupt, so quit it with you're whole wishing death upon him like some jihadists.

Anderson won't betray you, Udina has and probably will again and Jack Harper will too. 

I have two responses to this for two different Shepards.

1. Alliance Loyalist

Here is the problem, Anderson was not acting to save the world as you put it, he was acting to do a favor for a romantic interest. If Anderson really cared about humanity or the Alliance he would of put aside his emotions for a woman and realized that a single kidnap victim is not worth the diplomatic, political, and military crisis which would happen by involving the Turians.

How in the world does a lightning strike with the Turians which embarrased the Alliance, ruined its image, and arguably breached human soveriegnty seem better than going through Alliance channels to remove the Cerberus operatives. The book mentions that he is afraid of Cerberus influence within the Alliance, but surely there are people he trusts and enough officers who would be willing to take down Cerberus.

Instead the entire galaxy got to watch high level Alliance officers and officials being led away by all Turian CSEC squads. But thats ok, at least they freed Grayson...

The bigger problem in all of this is that Anderson broke military law. Not only did he withold intelligence from the Alliance which was critical, he handed it to a alien government, helped organize a police action that directly targeted naval officers and high ranking diplomats...

Your in the military, you tell me what would happen. If I was a member of the Admiralty I would be livid, because not only has Anderson screwed the public's perception of the Alliance at a time when it needed influence more than any other... he has created a precedent that anyone who wants can take intel and solve problems the way they see fit. The service cannot operate under that precedent and cannot suffer anyone, especially an admiral to do so. Capital punishment would be to much in this time period, but he certainly should be court marshalled. 

2) Cerberus Loyalist

Disgust is the only way I can describe what I felt when I read retribution, and my main Shepard is a Cerberus loyalist. He screwed the Alliance (Humanity), he screwed Cerberus right after they had stopped the collectors (and Anderson knew they did), and he did so with the Turians.

It would have been much easier to forgive if he had done what I suggested he should have done from the Alliance standpoint. But allowing the Aliens to weaken and embarass humanity with the Reapers coming is just uncontionable. Honestly the first thing I thought about was killing Anderson while reading that book, and now not only will I not get the chance, but I have to fight Cerberus. Also I am not advocating capital punishment, I am advocating assassination or a stupid, dangerous, and traitorous fool.



What I just don't understand is why Anderson saw it as an appropriate time to strike. He knows about the Reapers, he knows that humanity is going to need to be on its A game to rally the citadel fleet and races. Was striking a blow at Cerberus really the most beneficial thing to do at that moment? Regardless of how you look at Cerberus (And my Alliance Shepard certainly does not look kindly) how was this the right time? Because someone got kidnapped? Why not give the intel to men he knows and trusts so they could have removed the Cerberus influence themselves?

Finally I want to preempt the arguement I know will be brought forward. If Anderson had not acted independently before and released the Normandy, the world would already be gone. But thats the key, it was the end of life or break the rules. That was not the case with Retribution, if anything, Anderson damaged the war effort.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?

He was going to be, but he ran.

Uh, what?  Udina threatened to have him investigated, and the Alliance was going to put him on administrative leave, but that's as far as it went. Instead, he quit.  Shortly thereafter, he and Kahlee got shanghaied off to Omega.

In other words, he bolted, before the Alliance had time to sort out the mess he'd created and turn their full attention to his despicable self.

Right, like that prevented them from pursuing it had they chosen to.  Or tracking him down should charges have been brought, given that he showed no inclination to go into hiding or whatever, nor ever raised the notion.  And at the end, he tells Kahlee he plans to contact people in the Alliance to get help with Reaper prep. 

[Nashiktal]

Halo Quea wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

When the chips are down I want a man who will NOT run off to his girlfriend and sacrifice the galaxy to the reapers.

Seriously, why are people ignoring this? He throws away everything humanity and shep has done to get him where he is, especially if he is councilor.

I believe that Anderson thinks he can either: A) Remain a council member and play tug of war with the other council members, making little or nor progress or he can,  Give the council both middle fingers, grab a gun and make something happen. Hmm, I think he may have leaned a little toward B. 

Exactly.  And when we see him actually fighting along side Shepard then this entire discussion will become a moot point.  Besides I would have traded in Zaeed for Anderson as a squad mate in ME2 without a 2nd thought.  

Problem is Anderson would have been a better help leading the citadel races in the defence of the galaxy. 

He is a tired old man for gods sake! Why would I want to waste his years of experience in space combat,  fighting a ground war, when having a LEADER OF THE DAMN CITADEL RACES as an ally would be infinitely better.

Seriously do you realize how old he is? Anderson himself even said the frontlines isn't his place anymore.

Eh, Anderson can handle himself,  and he's only about 46-48 Years Old.  
Born in 2137
ME1-2 events are between 2183-2185

That would put him about 7-8 years ahead of Zaeed, and Zaeed looks older than Anderson lol!

Besides, this is IT. The BIG BATTLE for humanity's survival.  Anderson is a soldier through and through, he's not going to be satisfied with sitting on the sidelines in an office on the Citadel while Earth is being raped.

I concede age, he just feels like an old man too me I suppose.

However, my point still stands. His *satisfaction* is irrelevant. If he wants to help the Earth, he should have stayed where he could have done the most good, directing the charge if you will.

Instead he runs off to get some tail.

Bleh.

[Tennessee88]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?

He was going to be, but he ran.

Uh, what?  Udina threatened to have him investigated, and the Alliance was going to put him on administrative leave, but that's as far as it went. Instead, he quit.  Shortly thereafter, he and Kahlee got shanghaied off to Omega.

In other words, he bolted, before the Alliance had time to sort out the mess he'd created and turn their full attention to his despicable self.

Exactly. If Anderson truly believed he had done the right thing he should have been willing to face court marshall. Even if you like what Anderson did, he had to be charged because he broke the chain of command. I can't believe he was even allowed to just walk away. Although a trial of Anderson would have only been a further headache and likely made the diplomatic crisis worse... thanks a lot Anderson, I am trying to figure out how he could of F'ed up the situation any more than he did.

[CroGamer002]

Nashiktal wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate to say it, Udina might actually be one of the few people shep can trust.

At least he is predictable.

That ahole betrayed you in ME1 and he won't give you Spectre status if you choose him for Councilor and let Council die.


How is that douchebag trustworthy?

You know where his knife is, planted firmly in that angry fist of his.

With Anderson it flies from the shadows, planting itself into your surprised and betrayed back.

How does that make Udina trustworthy?!

Only difference is that you would be an idiot for trusting him even though you KNOW he'll betray you.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]didymos1120 wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]didymos1120 wrote...
[quote]Nashiktal wrote...
[quote]Prince of Kemet wrote...

Zulu, if he betrayed the Alliance.....why wasn't he brought up on charges?[/quote]
He was going to be, but he ran.
[/quote]
Uh, what?  Udina threatened to have him investigated, and the Alliance was going to put him on administrative leave, but that's as far as it went. Instead, he quit.  Shortly thereafter, he and Kahlee got shanghaied off to Omega.
[/quote]
In other words, he bolted, before the Alliance had time to sort out the mess he'd created and turn their full attention to his despicable self.
[/quote]
Right, like that prevented them from pursuing it had they chosen to.  Or tracking him down should charges have been brought, given that he showed no inclination to go into hiding or whatever, nor ever raised the notion.
[/quote]
So, they may have chosen to postpone it or cancel altogether as politically inconvenient or something. This doesn't change what Anderson did.[/quote]


[quote]didymos1120 wrote...

And at the end, he tells Kahlee he plans to contact people in the Alliance to get help with Reaper prep. 
[/quote]
If memory serves, in the end Anderson was more relying on contacting some mysterious people outside the Alliance. Can't wait for Deception to find out what kind of scum he was referring to.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2011 - 09:06 .

[Zeratul20]

Wait, wait, wait... So he resigned as -councelor- or as a military man?

[Tennessee88]

Mesina2 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

As much as I hate to say it, Udina might actually be one of the few people shep can trust.

At least he is predictable.

That ahole betrayed you in ME1 and he won't give you Spectre status if you choose him for Councilor and let Council die.


How is that douchebag trustworthy?

You know where his knife is, planted firmly in that angry fist of his.

With Anderson it flies from the shadows, planting itself into your surprised and betrayed back.

How does that make Udina trustworthy?!

Only difference is that you would be an idiot for trusting him even though you KNOW he'll betray you.

I understand what he is saying. Udina is predictable and entirely focussed on his job. I think Bioware went a little overboard with the power hungry politician theme, but in the end most diplomats have to act like Udina whether they like it or not. Honestly I can understand why he keeps his distance, and especially why he refuses to give Shepard SPECTRE status. Shepard has come back mysteriously from the dead after two years absence and is rumored to be associated with a terrorist organization. What responsible leader would be willing to do anything with Shepard even if he did believe him.

[Zulu_DFA]

Zeratul20 wrote...

Wait, wait, wait... So he resigned as -councelor- or as a military man?

In the beginning of Retribution Anderson is an admiral and aide to Councillor Udina. It is yet unknown, if the issue how he lost his Council position, if he had been a councillor in your ME2, is going to be addressed in ME3.

In the middle of the book Anderson resigns from that position anyway.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 21 avril 2011 - 09:12 .

[Tennessee88]

Prince of Kemet wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

This question is directed toward the Cerberus supporters.....What would Cerberus have to do before you feel they've gone too far?

  



There is nothing Cerberus can do that would ****** Me off because after what Bioware has done to ME 3 with the GI article .  Bioware wants the alliance be this f**king good group of people but yet they are taking Sh*t that does not belong to them and then say oh Cerberus is after Shepard for some so called mystery reason that they for some reason is not willing to tell us . Cerberus is being made the escape goats for Bioware 's utter failuer to create a reaper story that is believe able .  

I don't disagree with your opinion of bioswear but, would you really give Cerberus carte blanche to do whatever they want? Look at  their already dispicable, deplorable track record.

   





Bioware already gave the Alliance ultimate power to do as they desire so yeah why not . If one group can have ultimate and untouchable power. Cerberus can have it as well  

Come on Extreme, look at what they've done already.......the Quarians...Kahoku, Jack...Akuze..the Element Zero incident....God knows what else they've done that we don't know about.

The STG did the Genophage, the Turians tried to destroy us, the Quarians unwittingly released an AI race and are planning engaging them in war, the SPECTREs have done god knows what, etc etc. Its an ugly ugly galaxy with other races willing to do whatever it takes.

[didymos1120]

Tennessee88 wrote...

The STG did the Genophage, the Turians tried to destroy us, the Quarians unwittingly released an AI race and are planning engaging them in war, the SPECTREs have done god knows what, etc etc. Its an ugly ugly galaxy with other races willing to do whatever it takes.

"But they did it too!" isn't typically considered a valid excuse.

[ExtremeOne]

Prince of Kemet wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Prince of Kemet wrote...

This question is directed toward the Cerberus supporters.....What would Cerberus have to do before you feel they've gone too far?

  



There is nothing Cerberus can do that would ****** Me off because after what Bioware has done to ME 3 with the GI article .  Bioware wants the alliance be this f**king good group of people but yet they are taking Sh*t that does not belong to them and then say oh Cerberus is after Shepard for some so called mystery reason that they for some reason is not willing to tell us . Cerberus is being made the escape goats for Bioware 's utter failuer to create a reaper story that is believe able .  

I don't disagree with your opinion of bioswear but, would you really give Cerberus carte blanche to do whatever they want? Look at  their already dispicable, deplorable track record.

   





Bioware already gave the Alliance ultimate power to do as they desire so yeah why not . If one group can have ultimate and untouchable power. Cerberus can have it as well  

Come on Extreme, look at what they've done already.......the Quarians...Kahoku, Jack...Akuze..the Element Zero incident....God knows what else they've done that we don't know about.

  



Look at what they did are you kidding Me. The Spectres are above the law Shepard was above the law and could do what ever he dam well pleased in ME 1 with no rules at all . Cerberus gets the job done no matter what it takes and no matter who it hurts. Oh but thats right they are looked at as the bad guys . so They can do not do anything . The Salarians created a virius that is designed to wipe out the Krogan race . The Quarians created a AI called the Geth and turned on it when it become self awared . and The turians hate our guts . The Galaxy and the alien races in it will do what ever it takes to survie and destroy its enemies . We have to be willing to do the same to survive   

[CroGamer002]

Tennessee88 wrote...

I understand what he is saying. Udina is predictable and entirely focussed on his job. I think Bioware went a little overboard with the power hungry politician theme, but in the end most diplomats have to act like Udina whether they like it or not. Honestly I can understand why he keeps his distance, and especially why he refuses to give Shepard SPECTRE status. Shepard has come back mysteriously from the dead after two years absence and is rumored to be associated with a terrorist organization. What responsible leader would be willing to do anything with Shepard even if he did believe him.

Backstabbing me in ME1 is enough for me to hate him.

[ExtremeOne]

didymos1120 wrote...

Tennessee88 wrote...

The STG did the Genophage, the Turians tried to destroy us, the Quarians unwittingly released an AI race and are planning engaging them in war, the SPECTREs have done god knows what, etc etc. Its an ugly ugly galaxy with other races willing to do whatever it takes.

 


Thats because no one wants to listen to it  



"But they did it too!" isn't typically considered a valid excuse.

[Zeratul20]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Zeratul20 wrote...

Wait, wait, wait... So he resigned as -councelor- or as a military man?

In the beginning of Retribution Anderson is an admiral and aide to Councillor Udina. It is yet unknown, if the issue how he lost his Council position, if he had been a councillor in your ME2, is going to be addressed in ME3.

In the middle of the book Anderson resigns from that position anyway.

Aaaargh. "No, there's no real canon. The canon Shepard is your Shepard! Now here's a book you're allowed to consider as canon."

Thanks for the info.

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

"But they did it too!" isn't typically considered a valid excuse.

Yeah, but "they do it too" is.