603 réponses à ce sujet

[AreleX]

post the char you are interested in, as well

[frustratemyself]

AreleX wrote...

how many people are interested in builds for the other characters? they assuredly won't be as good, but i am putting the option on the table for a while.

Sebastian if you get around to it.

[WhazZup84]

maybe there is even a way to keep isabela in your group? without her getting bombed away by firestorms and walking bombs?
because this is my 3rd playthrough and i would like to try something new
anyway, thanks a lot so far for all of your great guides, especially the berserker one!

[Relix28]

Sebastian would be nice. Although I have a build that functions quite well (took some references from Varric's build and Sebastian's berserker vanguard build), it would be nice to see some of your optimizing touches.

[Grishnaz]

Dunno if this is just me. But since 1.03 my aveline will not start combat on her own, both on tank/agressive behaviour, until my PC ranged attacks something, she stands stationary when combat starts, often meaning shes 30 yards away :|

This is really annoying not sure if its a bug. Anyone else can attest to this?

[frustratemyself]

@ Grishnaz Man-hands has always done that to me pre & post 1.03. Stands there looking tough or runs back to stand next to Hawke in the middle of combat when there are still enemies she really should be killing.
I originally thought it was because she was set on tank behaviour but she does it on aggressive too so I don't know what the go is there. I rarely use her though it's not that much of an issue for me.

[SuicidalBaby]

Aggressive seems to have a bit of that "return to pc controlled character" in it. Ive had it happen quite often.

[AlexDeLarge]

Amazing guide mate, i'm steamrolling through my first run with it (Nightmare diff obviously). 1 question though, can you also post your tactics setup for Hawke? Or do you just manually control everything he does?

[Aries_cz]

AlexDeLarge: I think ArleX is controlling Hawke most of the time, because you cant set tactics to pull rogues out of stealth of cast Gravity Spehere in the chokepoint.
Anyway, this build looks great, but little to "blood magey" for my taste (Mind control). Maybe I will try the old Hawke build with new comapnions builds (Merrill looks like she could kill anything without problems, with both Primal/Elemental Masteries)
Also, I hope that BW will give PC player the detachable cmaera when casting AOE spells, and option to disable locking on enemies (almost impossible to aim anything, and when you finaly do it, Anders/Varric run in and get killed)

Modifié par Aries_cz, 29 juin 2011 - 11:59 .

[ISI-Society]

AreleX: Great guide ! Unlike my first 2 playthoughs (as a VBR 2H Warrior), for my third playthough (as an EFBM mage) I've decided to give your build a whirl largely as is, instead of deriving my own. I'm at 9th level as I type this (just over halfway through act 1).

QUESTIONS: (which may help clarify/revise the guide further)

* VARRIC TALENTS:   I'm coming off 2 plays that worked off staggers instead of disorients, so the latter are largely new to me.  The info for Varric's sabotage tree is a bit sketchy ... in order to implement the Fatiguing Fog in his tac list, which 3 prereq talents under Sabotage do you recomment, and is FF upgraded ?. Since DISORIENTED generation & exploitation is the beating heart of this build's cross class combos, the info would be helpful.  {Guess: is it Rush + Confusion to unlock FF, and then adding the overpowering fog and chaos upgrades as slots permit ?}. 

* UNSHAKEABLE:  After squeeing about it early on, it doesn't seem to appear in the current level-up progression for Hawke - is that because some of the newer item pack items include a no-knockback bonus, or has it's importance waned with additional playthoughs ?

* BLOOD MAGE:  The build initially mentions not needing any/many points in will, but then proceeds to add some anyway (presumably because the forcemage tree is developed before the bloodmage tree is).  Accordingly, would it be beneficial later in the game (sometime during levels 15-26) to use a maker's sigh to recycle some of those points and use them instead for an extra boost in Mag ?  Just a thought.

* MONEY: What do you feel is better - to go the runes of fortune route and farm as much money as possible to get those two $$$$ items (unblemished robes, etc.), or burn whatever you need on attribute bonus items (tomes, potions, etc) and companion upgrades, and sink any surplus into booze and whoring at the nearest tavern ?  Is there some middle ground between the two ? 

BTW, another quasi-related question: the in-game talent descriptions for various talents under the rogue trees frequently mention "stunned" but there is no specific STATUS condition corresponding to that. At a guess, I'm assuming that's just another word for DISORIENTED, and that the QA people failed to notice & gig the coders on their use of inconsistent nomenclature, right ?

Thanks again for the handy guide.

p.s.  Does anyone actually use miasmic flask ? (ack ... my asthma !!)

Modifié par ISI-Society, 29 juin 2011 - 01:46 .

[AreleX]

@ isi

1. even if the other talents in the sabotage tree were 'roll on the floor' and '****** your pants', it would be worth it for disorienting fog. rush is a pretty good 'get out of my face' move for npcs

2. unshakable is now useless with the patch

3. everything you see on the top half of the guide is relating to pre-patch. the bottom half is, as indicated, post patch

4. i'm the wrong person to ask about money, but the essential purchases are all tomes, companion armor upgrades, unblemished, and ring of the ferryman

5. there is no tactic for stunned enemies.

@ alex

i have a complex about controlling anyone but hawke

@ grishnaz

i did some aveline testing last night, and she was doing it at the strangest times. i will (not) try and investigate further and let you know what's going on.

@ creeper

i have sebastian build done, just have to post it (fat chance)

[ISI-Society]

I was doing a maker's sigh for shortie during the gap between our posts.

Mucho gracias on the answers ... saved me some time.

Revised post alert: see my question above on bloodmage/willpower points.

p.s. I'm guessing the Fatiguing Fog plays in with the gravity pull thingee, which then creates the alley oop for bomb, right ? Too bad there are no conditionals allowing you to directly key off the talents of other companions ... that would really improve the performance of cross class combos. 

--------------
BTW, all this indirect tac coding based on what enemies are doing, instead of what allies are doing, is rather klutzy and imprecise at times.  I guess BW chose to limit the complexity for the hoi polloi, and also save manhours coding it all. 

Modifié par ISI-Society, 29 juin 2011 - 02:02 .

[AreleX]

@ aries

i will never understand you rp'ers

[AreleX]

i have added a small change to varric's tactics:

Enemy: Target of Anders - Use current condition for next actic
Enemy: Paralyzed - Fatiguing Fog

this should be your new fog tactic.

i'm not bothering with updating the pre patch guide, since i can't even play it any more.

[thendcomes]

ISI-Society wrote...
* MONEY: What do you feel is better - to go the runes of fortune route and farm as much money as possible to get those two $$$$ items (unblemished robes, etc.), or burn whatever you need on attribute bonus items (tomes, potions, etc) and companion upgrades, and sink any surplus into booze and whoring at the nearest tavern ?  Is there some middle ground between the two ? 

You don't have to compromise.  If you do all quests, make the right choices, keep Runes of Fortune in your own gear and companions armor, and prioritize taking on quests where you get an armor upgrade with a rune slot, you can get practically everything you want.  It won't be perfectly cash optimized, only a party of Varric/Aveline/Fenris is, but you'll be able to buy almost all of the big ticket items.  

[ISI-Society]

Thanks. That's what I was hoping and half expecting to hear. I was able to spend with moderate extravagance on my prior 2 plays (as a VBR 2H Warrior), and I didn't have a feel yet for the optimal spending levels for my first runthru as an FmBm Mage. Sounds like the RoF tactic, if readied before the deeproads, will eventually pan out fully sometime early in Act 3. As I type this I'm just about to forage for the 2nd lyrium source, which is the only thing needed to fire up the 5 RoFs.

BTW, I'd idly played with RoFs in passing on my last playthough, but because of all the silliness with the rune of valiance, and it's subsequent fix, it didn't occur to me that BW had allowed the RoFs to remain stackable. The effect of just one didn't seem large enough to matter either, but I obviously didn't look closely enough, or think large enough. The idea of a full court press with a double handful of RoFs on everyone's chests and shields didn't occur to me.

[Relix28]

AreleX wrote...

i have added a small change to varric's tactics:

Enemy: Target of Anders - Use current condition for next actic
Enemy: Paralyzed - Fatiguing Fog

this should be your new fog tactic.

i'm not bothering with updating the pre patch guide, since i can't even play it any more.

How will this work exactly?  You have Anders set to cast a Glyph, when a target is Disoriented (Enemy: DISORIENTED - Glyph of Paralysis).  So, how does anyone get Disoriented in the first place (for Anders to set up a Glyph), if Varric will only fire the Fog on paralyzed targets?

Modifié par Relix28, 29 juin 2011 - 06:25 .

[ISI-Society]

AreleX wrote...

i have added a small change to varric's tactics:

Enemy: Target of Anders - Use current condition for next actic
Enemy: Paralyzed - Fatiguing Fog

this should be your new fog tactic.

Very sensible.  That's indirectly the sort of thing I was referring to earlier, although I had something more direct in mind like the following hypothetical varric tactic (this is just an example, not a recommended tactic)):

> Ally: Merrill has WotE active - Goad

BTW (yet another non-sequitur), it's interesting playing with the new spells of DA2.  Lemme see ... Pull of the Abyss is used to hoover targets (esp nearby melee, ranged and stealthed) into a small killzone, and then you slap on a Gravitic Ring like flypaper to hold them there, and buy time for the prioritized cross class combo exploits to fire off (paralysis, fog, bomb), right ?

Spiffy.  It's an inverse mirror of the goad + stagger exploits of the VBR build.  Nicely done.

I'm looking forward to giving it a trial by fire in the deeproads, and during demands of the qun.

Modifié par ISI-Society, 29 juin 2011 - 06:24 .

[ISI-Society]

Another possible varric tactics tweak (revised glass cannon section): Is there any reason why the bursting arrow vs BRITTLE line is further down the tactical list, instead of higher up (e.g., just before the archer's lance vs brittle) ?

Modifié par ISI-Society, 29 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[Mr_Raider]

AreleX wrote...

@ aries

i will never understand you rp'ers

Indeed. However Blood mage is far from essential in this build. The cornerstone of the build is crowd control with force mage, and piling on elemental damage. The value of stagger hemorrhage is much less since the patch.

If the player is psychologically averse to bloodmage, they can drop the spec point in spirit healer for the passive mana bonus, and use the points freed up from teh BM spec to put them in other talents.

Notably you can pick up Tempest because it's one nifty crowd control spell, and drop a few points in creation to get haste (double haste FTW!). You could also pick up some spells in spirit, like spirit bolt for disorient finishers, and death syphon. With patch 1.03, upgraded death syphon is a very good spell. If you leave your willpower at base, and have one school mastery bonus, with death syphon active you will practically never run out of mana.

Maybe something like this:


http://biowarefans.c...lent-builder/#m

Modifié par Mr_Raider, 29 juin 2011 - 08:20 .

[ISI-Society]

Sounds like a valid option for my current playthough, since I used death syphon in my prior 2 plays.

I'll have to pick which way to go at 14th.

[Relix28]

Yep, Dropping a second spec point into spirit healer and investing in creation tree is a very viable alternative.You can hold valiant aura yourself and free up a spell point and some precious mana for Anders, having heal is also useful, and dual hasting is just ridiculous. And after that, you still have some points to spend wherever you like.
IMO, it's almost better to go the dual haste way.

[frustratemyself]

AreleX wrote...

@ creeper

i have sebastian build done, just have to post it (fat chance)

I may get a bit busy now with DS3 but hugs & cookies in appreaciation.

[ISI-Society]

Relix28 wrote...

Yep, Dropping a second spec point into spirit healer and investing in creation tree is a very viable alternative.You can hold valiant aura yourself and free up a spell point and some precious mana for Anders, having heal is also useful, and dual hasting is just ridiculous. And after that, you still have some points to spend wherever you like.
IMO, it's almost better to go the dual haste way.

Since I already did the death syphon angle twice in DA2 (plus draining aura twice in DAO), I'll leaning towards learning something new for my final play, so I'll give AreleX's bloodmage finishing school a go.  Should be fun.

As universal donor (O+), I'm looking forward to showcasing my bloodmage O-face in public.

[SuicidalBaby]

Do not forget to stock up on cheap Mage Adept gear in act 1 with +% fire and + .25 BM conversion.
Suggested gear: Boots, Cowl, Robe, Gloves will be Hands of Fate from Emporium in act 2, and 3 minor cantrip rings asap, +spirit/bm ring in act 2 will be the 4th.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 29 juin 2011 - 11:22 .