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Elemental Force/Blood Mage - Nuclear Warfare (Nightmare Guide) Updated for patch 1.02/1.03 + Legacy DLC video added (July 30th)


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#501
thendcomes

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It states in the game or somewhere that Heavy Armor innately draws more threat than light armor. Might be just initially or also over time. The dog is probably programmed as having heavy armor.

#502
ISI-Society

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Ah, so even though Dog is unarmored in DA2, they just set his armor type as heavy in order to automatically give him a higher threat value. Seems like a reasonable guess to me.

Modifié par ISI-Society, 12 juillet 2011 - 09:36 .


#503
Raycer X

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What armor pieces should I equip for this build? I keep thinking that the champion's set should be standard, but at the same time, I keep thinking that the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness and the Apostate's Mask (from the item pack DLC) would make it work better (since there is a +34% elemental damage increase).

#504
ISI-Society

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Raycer X wrote...

What armor pieces should I equip for this build? I keep thinking that the champion's set should be standard, but at the same time, I keep thinking that the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness and the Apostate's Mask (from the item pack DLC) would make it work better (since there is a +34% elemental damage increase).


I just recently finished a playthough, and I recommend completely ignoring all random and in-game purchased robes, hoods and boots ... the new mage item pack gives you the best available for all three, along with minimum level restriction limits that kick in a roughly 5th, 9th, 13th, 15th and 17th level.  The items in the packs can and will carry you all the way though the end of the game, and are significantly better than the champion set present in the core game ... particularly the apostate's mask, which is easily the best helm/hood in the game by a very wide margin, regardless of class.

The robes of unblemished cleanliness and ring of the ferryman are two special cases that, IF YOU CAN BUILD UP 250 gp within the game in order to be able to buy them (in late act 2 or early act 3) can offer you some VERY nice damage bonuses to your elementalist spells.  However, if you're playing on normal or casual mode, they're entirely optional.

#505
AreleX

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rouc + high dragon gauntlets + apostate's mask + lowtown apparel shop fire/blood boots are going to give you the highest possible +% fire mod from your armor

Modifié par AreleX, 14 juillet 2011 - 12:59 .


#506
twisted_tseri

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Hey guys! I want to thank you for your advice and this guide... I'm in act 3... Just recently killed the high dragon. Killed it on my second try, barely, actually with only Hawke and Merrill left. Nonetheless, for me, it's a win! Thank you!

Now, I'm kinda choosing what items best to use to maximize all of my party. I still like the Malcom's honor and armor for my Hawke Mage, though. My real problem is with the accessories, don't know what to use. Do I buy or not?

#507
ISI-Society

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If I remember, Malcolm's honor is spirit based, and therefore is most effective with someone with the Spirit Tree maxed out and capped off with the Spirit Mastery talent, which if you did him right is usually Anders.

Yes, it feels a bit odd giving one of the most powerful items in the group to someone other than hawke, but in this instance, if you've been faithful to AreleX's built, Hawke is better off staying true to maximizing his/her elementalist bonuses at every opportunity and with every piece of bling, and therefore you should equip hawke with one of the best staves you can find that are elementalist based (in my case, I used the Torch of Falon'din, which has 2 rune slots and a +16% fire bonus). Doing that will enabe hawke to maximize the damage from all of his meat and potatoes elementalist spells, as well as the base damage on the staff itself ... which in turn enables simple X-mashing to become a pretty effective tactic, which in turn takes some of the pressure off your mana bar.

Just as an example (my Hawke), a typical elementalist bonus for hawke in this build might look something like this (for this example I used fire):

+25% (pyromancer) +25% (elemental mastery) +24% (RoIC) +24% (Ring of Ferryman) +10% (Mask of Apostate) +5% (ornate ring) +4% (belt of primevals) +16% (torch of falon'din staff) = + 133% fire damage bonus.  Approximately**, that is.

With bonuses that hefty, even the humble fireball is often enough to take out the cluster of enemies you just PotA'd, leaving your apocalyptic firestorm free to be laid down as a handy preemptive portable killzone that most of wave 2 will subsequently get fried trying to run though in order to reach you.  Proof positive that you don't have to throw an AOE DD spell directly at an enemy in order to wipe them out to the least and last.

{paraphase sun tzu} Never miss an opportunity to boink your enemy wherever and whenever possible - preferrably when they least expect it, have no recourse, or better still ... BOTH.

----------------
** I say approximately because the bonus additions/subtractions code is more than a little buggy in various instances.  In addition, they very likely have used the convenient but incorrect method of adding percentages by simple addition rather than compounding them (ex: 60 base + 50% + 50% seems implemented as 60 + 30 + 30 = 120 rather than 60 x 1.5 x 1.5 = 135). 

Modifié par ISI-Society, 14 juillet 2011 - 01:04 .


#508
mr_afk

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um.. but with the dlc wouldn't anders have that nifty +cold/fire% dmg amulet?
I would think that an elemental anders would make the most sense. and what's better than one firestorm? two!

but yeah, with malcolm's honour I'd either use it with a non-elemental hawke or simply as one of the staves to swap to when facing spirit vulnerabilities

#509
ISI-Society

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This is where I get into trouble ... speaking from 2+ wk old memory, rather than my actual save data. :blush:

Ok,  I just checked my anders data, and if you skip the bugged valiant aura talent in your build, you should have just enough slots to for anders to attain both the elemental mastery AND spirit mastery talent bonuses in act 3 (in addition to having already maxed out his haste and healing under the creation tree).  Having both is handy, because it boosts both his bomb spells AND his elementalist AOE spells.

In my instance, I had him using the following late in act 3, depending on who he was facing:
* Commanding Runed Staff (41 elec, +44 mana, +5 mana regen, +15% fire bonus).
* Bassrath kata (42 fire, +46 mana, +5 mana regen, +26% healing, +13 vs humans) <-- good in extended battles of attrition if you know you'll need healing)
* Malcolm's Honor <-- good base damage against those resistant to elementalism, plus nice bonus against demons, therefore a good choice when facing bloodmages who know you're coming.

To recap my build (not AreleX's):
Hawke = Elemental Master + Force Master + some ala carte Creation & spirit healing
Anders = Creation + Spirit Master + Elemental Master
Merrill = Dalish Pariah + Primal + Elemental Master + some misc ala carte

As for Merrill's staff - I usually had her alternating between a bloodmage staff with a decent electrical bonus (pairs well with her CL & galvanism), or a straight up fire staff (which pairs well with her elemental mastery).

Ex:
* Corrupted Acolyte Staff (42 phys, +46 mana, +16% elec, +0.25 BM)
* Runecarved Enchanted Staff (42 fire, +46 mana, +16% fire)

Obviously the mana bonus doesnt help Merrill's BotF (except to help her get back into BotF if she dropped out to heal), but the bonus percentages are decent.

Modifié par ISI-Society, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:00 .


#510
thendcomes

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If someone wants to do the math, I think The Final Thought or any other generic staff with 48+ damage will outperform the Torch on fire spells on the strength of its base damage. Obviously it will outperform it on every other element as well. Also, boosting spirit damage is generally a waste. Unless I'm mistaken, Walking Bomb is unaffected except for the tick from the Corrosive upgrade, so all you're really improving is Spirit Bolt and Spirit staff attack.

Also, if you play on PC, there's no need to limit yourself to one tree. Arelex plays on a console which limits his keybinds and he doesn't play in Act 3 at all, but upon entering the Act at 21 you can have Great Haste/Valiant Aura, Gravitic/PotA, and 2 masteries. It's not smart to focus on only one element because there just aren't enough spells of any one element where you can spam that element and forgo the rest. Not only that, but you limit your ability to exploit enemy weaknesses and become seriously handicapped if facing enemies immune to the element you stack.

Unless you optimize for every fight, the best way to gear up would be to equip the biggest boosting gear and use all your spells. In other words, having 133% fire damage is nice and all, but offers less DPS and less utility than having, for example, 90% fire, 70% electric, and 70% cold.*


*I should footnote this and say that I play with a solo mage and thus benefit from eke'ing out the most from my talents. With a party, it might not even be necessary. If all the enemies are dead within Firestorm's duration, then stack away.

Modifié par thendcomes, 14 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .


#511
thendcomes

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To pick on your post a little bit...

ISI-Society wrote...
and if you skip the bugged valiant aura talent

Valiant Aura should absolutely not be skipped. It's the best buff in the game. The bug is not permanent and is easily fixed if you encounter it.

#512
AreleX

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anders has firestorm

#513
AreleX

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+% spirit gear does not boost the damage on walking bomb

#514
AreleX

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i think someone (rumination or in1) tested and found the torch to be the best staff in the game, but i don't remember/don't care. there's a thread about staves and damage and testing and whatnot by one of them

triple post cause i don't give a ****

#515
thendcomes

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Whatever that poster claimed, it's just not that simple. The Torch is great because of the two rune slots, so it can have 10% to all (26% to fire) AND 35% attack speed, and it's free. TFT has to choose between the two, but gets buffed 38 or 39% from the Primeval Lyrium Rune.

If you wanted the PLR on TFT, then that would require some math to see what's stronger for Fire/Cold/Elec spells: 10% damage or +6 base damage. TFT will of course be better for Spirit (and Nature, ie. just your attack). If you used a Devastation rune instead, I don't think there's a question that TFT would be better for spells, it just wouldn't have the high attack speed, which would make it worse for auto attacks.

The new DLC supposedly contains a unique weapon based on your class that you can "customize". Maybe that new staff will end the "best staff" discussion once and for all.

#516
ISI-Society

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thendcomes wrote...

Also, if you play on PC, there's no need to limit yourself to one tree.


I never suggested or implied anyone should limit themselves to one tree.  If you read my post carefully, you'll see I was just using fire as an example, per the point I was making in that part of the thread.  Nothing more.

As for spirit mastery not boosting bomb ... I didn't realize that, and I'll take your word for it.  Good to know.

#517
thendcomes

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My comment wasn't really directed at you (when I said "you", I meant any player), although this comment

ISI-Society wrote...
To recap my build (not AreleX's):
Hawke = Elemental Master + Force Master + some ala carte Creation & spirit healing


makes it look like you're focusing on one damage tree. Force only requires 4 or 5 with PotA upgrade, Creation requires 5 for Great Haste/Valiant Aura (Anders can handle the glyphs), Elemental has 8-10. That's 20 skill points, which is available as early as level 15. Your build would really be Elemental/Primal or Elemental/Spirit instead of just Elemental. 

My main point was it's better to have more spells available versus throwing all your points in one tree. Like you'd want to have Firestorm+upgrade, Cone of Cold, Winter's Grasp+upgrade, Chain Lightning+upgrade, and maybe Spirit Bolt+upgrade before reaching for the masteries. Again though, that is what I found to be best playing solo.

Modifié par thendcomes, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:29 .


#518
AreleX

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that's a soloing problem you speak of, it's irrelevant when you can share the burdens across 2 other mages.

#519
ISI-Society

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Like you'd want to have Firestorm+upgrade, Cone of Cold, Winter's Grasp+upgrade, Chain Lightning+upgrade, and maybe Spirit Bolt+upgrade before reaching for the masteries.


You really are a literalist, arent you ? ;)

Allow me to translate:

Elemental Master + Force Master + some ala carte Creation & spirit healing


My latest hawke had:
* EVERYTHING under the elemental tree. My use of the term "elemental master" referred to being master of the entire elemental tree, not just to the lone "elemental mastery" talent.  I'm a writer first, and a gamer second, so when shove comes to push, proper Engrish trumps gaming nomenclature in my native speaky speak. ;)  

* EVERYTHING under the forcemage tree (except unshakeable, because it's bugged in 1.02 ... but that was TMI so I didn't bother mentioning it).

* Ala Carte: I'd probably do things slightly differently if I were to do a 4th playthough, but for this run (my only run as a mage) I took the following: Primal (rock armor), Entropy (Hex of Torment ... I used it for the rock wraith and arishok battles, and then never got around to removing it with maker's sigh), creation (heal+greaterheal, haste+greaterhaste, heroic aura ... and I think I took valiant aura but penciled a note that it's bugged and not to take it again until repaired, and lastly spirit healer (in lieu of bloodmage, which posed a roleplaying conflict) ... for the latter I took healing aura, group heal, and unity. My hawke finished out at 26th level, and I think that accounts for all the talent slots I had ... but I'm too lazy to add ATM.

Anyway, my copy of Elder Scrolls IV is in the mail, so I'm pretty much done with DA2.

It was fun, guys.

Modifié par ISI-Society, 15 juillet 2011 - 01:33 .


#520
mr_afk

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yay, oblivion. i remember lots of good times while playing it - was actually tempted to kick up a new game (but it doesn't seem to work on my laptop so I cbf'd). :)
the spellmaking/enchanting system is the best.. hmm just make sure you don't run around with 100% chameleon all the time (as been invincible sorta gets boring) haha


anyway i think i recall it was jack-nader who worked out that stacking +%fire and using the torch was the most powerful. Also, there aren't that many staves with rune slots so in regards to runes of devastation etc. it also is pretty useful.

however, that was all done before both malcolm's and the patch - so potentially the changes could make final thought a more viable option (no longer has the issue of physical damage).

I can't test it out in-game because you need to start a new game to get the staff changes and I really can't be bothered doing calcs or playing through another mage/playing through another anything.


btw, my latest experimenting with a low level run seems to be working quite well. only got up to the deep roads but I did the deep roads dragon sub-30s (around 26-27 seconds) at level 7. the base damage makes certain unique weapons really overpowered - but i sorta have given up on it.

the inability to get out of battle mode even when enemies aren't chasing you is really frustrating. the whole run in assassinate the target grab whatever remains you need to grab before sneaking off in stealth is pretty fun when it works (i.e. when you don't have to hunt down every last enemy just to be able to leave the area).

update: LOL I just solo'd the ARW (on nightmare) with my level 6 archer ahahaha
It's so serverly gimped health-wise (due to scaling) that I managed to deal enough damage via bow autoattacks
unfortunately i couldn't avoid the ridiculous amount of experience from killing it. so I'm into act 2 at level 7 ^_^
This is more fun than I had anticipated- it's a pity there aren't that many powerful act 2 rogue weapons..

Modifié par mr_afk, 15 juillet 2011 - 08:03 .


#521
twisted_tseri

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poor me, I didn't get all the +skill points because I bought a lot of stuff during my run (armors for companions and elf-root) hahaha... All I have now is about 100k. I like the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness but its at 140K. I'll try to sell everything I have.

I'll probably give my Malcolm's staff to Anders or Merrill and use the Torch of Falon'Din for increase Fire damage.

Sorry to put out a question about staves and items. Actually, it wasn't a question more of "what's the best items for my build that I have?" lol! cause I know I can't have the best items in the game. I'll probably get the Robe than the accessories in Black Emporium that gives you +1 to all attrinbutes.

Again, thank you everyone for your advice and thank you to the author of this thread! next up, DW Rogue!

#522
twisted_tseri

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by the way., what's RoIC? the one that gives you +24% fire damage?

#523
mr_afk

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robe of unblemished cleanliness.
it's the robe from the black emporium in act 3...with the wrong initials. :/

Modifié par mr_afk, 15 juillet 2011 - 09:17 .


#524
ISI-Society

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mr_afk wrote...

robe of unblemished cleanliness.
it's the robe from the black emporium in act 3...with the wrong initials. :/


The other thing I dislike about those robes is that they make you look like a Sister of the Chantry, which makes no sense whatsoever because the Chantry doesn't have or condone mages in their ranks. 

Perhaps in a misguided fugue of artistic sloth, the designer responsible had the not so brilliant idea of simply recycling the model for a Sister of the Chantry, and incorrectly assumed that customers wouldn't notice or care. 

FAIL.

Modifié par ISI-Society, 15 juillet 2011 - 11:55 .


#525
twisted_tseri

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question, is it really attainable to purchase Robes of Unblemished Cleanlines, Ring of Ferryman, and the Final Thought?

I mean, earlier in run through I had to buy lots of elf-root and also I spend so much upgrading the armor of my companions. I didn't want to leave one out since you might use them one way or another in quests for Act 3... As of the moment, I can only purchase one and I'm planning to purchase the Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness.