Questa discussione ha avuto 945 risposte

[JnEricsonx]

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

[hoorayforicecream]

If you side with the templars at the beginning of Act 3, you get some templar armor and an additional quest from the templars to hunt down more blood mages. If you side with them at the end, you assault the gallows prison from the outside, kill a bunch of mages, abominations and demons, and then fight Orsino inside. Then Meredith goes (further) off her rocker and tries to kill Hawke too, resulting in the big fight. Afterward defeating Meredith, Cullen and the remaining Templars bow to Hawke and (s)he becomes the new Viscount in the epilogue.

[berelinde]

Poorly, from what I've seen so far. I've been siding with the templars religiously, being a zealot even Meredith would approve of, convincing mages to rejoin the circle (or forcing them to become tranquil) all over the place, and I still have not managed ot unlock the Mage Hunter achievement. With only one quest that matters to go, On the Loose, I'm starting to think the achievment may be bugged.

So, how did you find siding with the templars in Act 2? To me, it felt like my templar-fanatic Hawke was definitely not on the moral high ground.

[The Angry One]

The Orsino fight at least makes some degree of sense in the Templar side, and the fight is more epic (you get backup).
The subsequent Meredith fight manages to make even less sense, mind you. So it balances out.

[IanPolaris]

Honestly, the worst decision in tersm of XP is not to take a side at the start of Act 3. If you pick either the mages or templars, you get 1-2 extra quests (two if you pick the mages) and some extra gear (Templar armor if you side with the Templars and Aequitarian Robes if you side with the mages).

As for the very end, you either assault the gallows from the outside in and fight Orisino-Harvester (templar) or you fight Orisino-Harvester and break out of the gallows from the outside in. The final battle with Meredith is identical in both cases.

Basically it really doesn't matter what side you pick. The game is pretty much the same for all of Act 3. It's the new "Bioware Choice".

-Polaris

[AlexXIV]

The Angry One wrote...

The Orsino fight at least makes some degree of sense in the Templar side, and the fight is more epic (you get backup).
The subsequent Meredith fight manages to make even less sense, mind you. So it balances out.

Also, Hawke wins if he/she sides with the templars even though it is hardly Hawke's doing since the templars win anyway.

[IanPolaris]

AlexXIV wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Orsino fight at least makes some degree of sense in the Templar side, and the fight is more epic (you get backup).
The subsequent Meredith fight manages to make even less sense, mind you. So it balances out.

Also, Hawke wins if he/she sides with the templars even though it is hardly Hawke's doing since the templars win anyway.

Actually it's ironic.  The last battle (Final Straw) does make a lot more sense thematically if you sided with the Templars (not the the Templars actually needed your help) BUT the epilog and impact of Hawke makes vast amounts more sense if you sided with the mages.

Let's look at it.  The Mages in the Gallows are sitting ducks anyway, and all the cut-scenes make it painfully clear that the mages are completely overmatched by Joe or Jane Templar alone.  While it makes sense for Meredith to ask for your support, she doesn't really need it.  All she needs to do is for the Champion to stay out of it.  That being so, even if Hawke participates, it's just another Annulment (18th) and I don't see how Hawke is anything special.  We are also told tha he's made Viscount afterwards.  So how in Hades do you go from being Viscount to "slime on the run" in three years with absolutely no leadup?  You don't.

OTOH, these aspectes make perfect sense if you sided with the mages.  Your prowess enabled "dangerous" mages to escape and got the world out which was the "shot heard round the world".  It would make perfect sense that the Templars to a man hate and loathe a mage-Hawke for this very reason....but under the circumstances given what Mage (or mage friend) hawke had already done, the KC Cullen made a field decision to fight the Champion another day....and thus it makes perfect sense that the Chantry also blames you (and villifies you) forcing you to be on the run.

I strongly, strongly, suspect that the default/canon Hawke is a bloodmage.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

If you side with the Templars, Hawke isn't on the run three years later. He simply vanished.

[caradoc2000]

berelinde wrote...

I've been siding with the templars religiously, being a zealot even Meredith would approve of, convincing mages to rejoin the circle (or forcing them to become tranquil) all over the place, and I still have not managed ot unlock the Mage Hunter achievement.

Not much of a zealot if you haven't gotten the achievement. There are 7 possibilities to side with the templars of which you need to do 5.

[sphinxess]

IanPolaris wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Orsino fight at least makes some degree of sense in the Templar side, and the fight is more epic (you get backup).
The subsequent Meredith fight manages to make even less sense, mind you. So it balances out.

Also, Hawke wins if he/she sides with the templars even though it is hardly Hawke's doing since the templars win anyway.

Actually it's ironic.  The last battle (Final Straw) does make a lot more sense thematically if you sided with the Templars (not the the Templars actually needed your help) BUT the epilog and impact of Hawke makes vast amounts more sense if you sided with the mages.

Let's look at it.  The Mages in the Gallows are sitting ducks anyway, and all the cut-scenes make it painfully clear that the mages are completely overmatched by Joe or Jane Templar alone.  While it makes sense for Meredith to ask for your support, she doesn't really need it.  All she needs to do is for the Champion to stay out of it.  That being so, even if Hawke participates, it's just another Annulment (18th) and I don't see how Hawke is anything special.  We are also told tha he's made Viscount afterwards.  So how in Hades do you go from being Viscount to "slime on the run" in three years with absolutely no leadup?  You don't.

OTOH, these aspectes make perfect sense if you sided with the mages.  Your prowess enabled "dangerous" mages to escape and got the world out which was the "shot heard round the world".  It would make perfect sense that the Templars to a man hate and loathe a mage-Hawke for this very reason....but under the circumstances given what Mage (or mage friend) hawke had already done, the KC Cullen made a field decision to fight the Champion another day....and thus it makes perfect sense that the Chantry also blames you (and villifies you) forcing you to be on the run.

I strongly, strongly, suspect that the default/canon Hawke is a bloodmage.

-Polaris

What is funny is seekers like Cassandra are running around trying to find Hawke to calm things down. Since religions don''t really compromise on their teachings I Imagine they will get a fireball up their a** if they ever catch up to Hawke and ask him to try to get the mages to return to the circles.

Modificata da sphinxess, 18 aprile 2011 - 11:14 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

I doubt the Seekers are trying to get the mages back to the Circle, I just think that they want an end to the war.
Besides, they are elite Templars. So a mage Hawke probably seems less daunting to them.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you side with the Templars, Hawke isn't on the run three years later. He simply vanished.

You say tomAto and I say Tomaato, but it's the same fruit in the end.  Less than three years later, Hawke is no longer Viscount with no good explainaion.  It's a pretty blatent plothole which is why I think the default Hawke will be a mage (or mage sympathizer) Hawke.

-Polars

[Rifneno]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you side with the Templars, Hawke isn't on the run three years later. He simply vanished.

You say tomAto and I say Tomaato, but it's the same fruit in the end.  Less than three years later, Hawke is no longer Viscount with no good explainaion.  It's a pretty blatent plothole which is why I think the default Hawke will be a mage (or mage sympathizer) Hawke.

-Polars

Justice found a way back onto the mortal plane, and he murderknife'd templar Hawke as payback.  $$$

[EmperorSahlertz]

It's not really a plothole since it happens at the end of the game. It is a cliffhanger of a sort. Or just an opening for the sequel/dlc/expansion. There most likely won't be a "default" Hawke, but there will be some of those presets like the Hero of Ferelden.

[JnEricsonx]

I'm just wondering if I should have Bethany go to the Circle or set it up so that she goes to the Grey Wardens.

[EmperorSahlertz]

You can spare her if you send her to the Circle yet sides with the Templars. She will be rather sad, if you side with Templars, either way.

[berelinde]

caradoc2000 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

I've been siding with the templars religiously, being a zealot even Meredith would approve of, convincing mages to rejoin the circle (or forcing them to become tranquil) all over the place, and I still have not managed ot unlock the Mage Hunter achievement.

Not much of a zealot if you haven't gotten the achievement. There are 7 possibilities to side with the templars of which you need to do 5.

Nope, as much of a zealot as possible. Sent Feynriel to the circle in Wayward Son. Sent Grace to the circle in An Act of Mercy. Sided with Meredith in Showdown. Refused the deal with Torpor and made Feynriel tranquil in Night Terrors. Sided with the templars and denounced the mages at every opportunity in Enemies Among Us. All that's left is On the Loose. I haven't done that quest yet. Oh, and I haven't done Best Served Cold, either, so there's still 2 chances, I guess.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You can spare her if you send her to the Circle yet sides with the Templars. She will be rather sad, if you side with Templars, either way.

Her feelings are entirely justified.  In fact, after you beat Orisino (if pro-templar), Meredith calls for Bethay's head (and you can give it to her).  Either way, she bitterly askes you (as best I recall), "So am I, your sister, the next mage you are willing to sacrifice for the Templars?"  It's a damn good question since by all acounts she did nothing wrong.....and it hows just how fundamentally morally indefensible the Templar position really is.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

Being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, really suck sometimes.

[Jeffonl1]

If you side with the templars you find out that he has been hiding Quentin from the order ... Remember Q? the guy that killed your mother...

[LobselVith8]

Jeffonl1 wrote...

If you side with the templars you find out that he has been hiding Quentin from the order ... Remember Q? the guy that killed your mother...

Orsino gives a variation of this relevation in the mage ending, too.

[Jassper]

Rifneno wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

If you side with the Templars, Hawke isn't on the run three years later. He simply vanished.

You say tomAto and I say Tomaato, but it's the same fruit in the end.  Less than three years later, Hawke is no longer Viscount with no good explainaion.  It's a pretty blatent plothole which is why I think the default Hawke will be a mage (or mage sympathizer) Hawke.

-Polars

Justice found a way back onto the mortal plane, and he murderknife'd templar Hawke as payback.  $$$

I thought it sucked that the outcome was the same in either case. Minor differances yes, but basically the same. There was no point in a second play-threw.

[Fieryeel]

Siding with templar ending made more sense storyline-wise though.

Orsino would be driven to the point of desperation and be forced to become the harvester to fight you. Also, you get to accuse him on siding with Quentin.

If you sided with mages, you hear him admit his dealings with Quentin, but do not get to call him out on it. Also, him turning harvester and trying to kill you even though you guys had the advantage made absolutely no sense.

If you sided with templars, Meredith then claims that everything has in fact been playing by your cards, as if you had planned your rise to power, and thus she would kill you, then announce to Kirkwall you died heroically fighting mages. Upon hearing that, Cullen immediately defends you, and the rest of the templars too are reluctant to aid her as you helped them, making Meredith go nuts.

If you sided with mages, Meredith do have every rights to kill you. What doesn't make sense is why cullen and the rest of the templars refuse to help her.

[Benchmark]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You can spare her if you send her to the Circle yet sides with the Templars. She will be rather sad, if you side with Templars, either way.

Her feelings are entirely justified.  In fact, after you beat Orisino (if pro-templar), Meredith calls for Bethay's head (and you can give it to her).  Either way, she bitterly askes you (as best I recall), "So am I, your sister, the next mage you are willing to sacrifice for the Templars?"  It's a damn good question since by all acounts she did nothing wrong.....and it hows just how fundamentally morally indefensible the Templar position really is.

-Polaris

Negative Ghostrider.

I just played that ending 3 hrs ago. In the first confrontation she asks if you will really make her choose between you or the circle and if you are willing to fight against her. You can ask if she will fight for you but Orsino convinces her to stay with him.

When you get your fight with Orsino she is horrified by his use of blood magic and angered by his comments that you will die. She doesn't want her brother to die and doesnt condone blood magic, she sides with you in the battle.

Meredith demands her life. You can let her kill Bethany, or you can refuse. At this point Cullen has already been trying to curb Meredith down and has flat out refused to kill mages that surrendered, so she agrees to leave you alone.

The final battle Bethany and Cullen can help you after Cullen tries to have Meredith arrested for threatening to kill Hawke again... Final sith lord battle ensues.

[Benchmark]

JnEricsonx wrote...

I'm just wondering if I should have Bethany go to the Circle or set it up so that she goes to the Grey Wardens.

Having Bethany in the circle and taking the side of the Templars makes everything come together and make sense. As long as you protect mages willing to surrender and resist Meredith wanting to kill your sister. In that case, Meredith trying to kill you even makes sense since you subvert her authoritty and her own Knight Captain refuses to follow her.

Modificata da Benchmark, 19 aprile 2011 - 04:51 .