945 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

They should have really added a neutral option to help Aveline's guards in securing some quarters, evacuating civilians...etc. Since either choice has us fighting demons anyways, we can fight them there as well. Then maybe someone asks Hawke to go to the Gallows as both Templars and mages have gone mad. Hawke goes there, kills the Harvester. Meredith shows up and becomes mad. Hawke kills her too. Then either stays and becomes Viscount (and disapears later), or hides.

Well, that's pretty much supporting the Templars but lacking the courage to do it effectively.  If it was an option, I'd expect there to be consequences for your tardy arrival at where the action is.

[Joy Divison]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

They should have really added a neutral option to help Aveline's guards in securing some quarters, evacuating civilians...etc. Since either choice has us fighting demons anyways, we can fight them there as well. Then maybe someone asks Hawke to go to the Gallows as both Templars and mages have gone mad. Hawke goes there, kills the Harvester. Meredith shows up and becomes mad. Hawke kills her too. Then either stays and becomes Viscount (and disapears later), or hides.

The only problem w/ that is just about eeryone would pick it.  I do like the idea of 2 roten choices, what I don;t like is that choice doesn;t matter since I'm fighting the same people anyway and the ending is the same.

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
They should have really added a neutral option to help Aveline's guards in securing some quarters, evacuating civilians...etc. Since either choice has us fighting demons anyways, we can fight them there as well. Then maybe someone asks Hawke to go to the Gallows as both Templars and mages have gone mad. Hawke goes there, kills the Harvester. Meredith shows up and becomes mad. Hawke kills her too. Then either stays and becomes Viscount (and disapears later), or hides.

This would've made so much more sense. Because as of now I'm either helping a crazy woman, or helping dangerous people run amok. That also makes the "VICOUNT NOW!" from everyone make more sense seeing as you just saved their skin yet again.  Because really Hawke being forced to pick a side only makes snese with a mage Hawke. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 avril 2011 - 09:27 .

[Benchmark]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Benchmark wrote...

You are completely ignoring the mages present other than Grace and Alain. Mages that are clearly labelled "Circle Mage".

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm addressing we can't make any valid assessment about the mages of the Gallows when we don't meet them in the Gallows. You're bringing up repeated examples of mages who are outside of the Gallows, but it tells us nothing about what the mages currently living in the Gallows are like.

This is a really strange argument? Where did you think they are coming from? Orsino tells you they are sneaking out of the Gallows to have a meeting. They just snuck out of the Gallows. They are labeled "Circle Mage" and you are told they just snuck out of the Gallows. At least the first group you eavesdrop on certainly just snuck out of the Gallows. and as soon as they see you they start summoning demons.

I don't know how that doesn't point to something inside the circle is not kosher.

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not pretending anything, I'm addressing that Hawke can't make a valid assessment of people he has little to no knowledge about. Mages we encounter outside of the Gallows don't tell us what the mages who are inside of the Gallows are like. Mages who weren't part of Thrask's initiative against Meredith aren't people we can know about if we're looking at mages who joined Thrask to see her removed from power. All you're doing is providing your speculations and asserting them as though they were indisputable facts.

I am not speculating, I am stating what events happened in game. "Circle Mage" summons demon...

I can concede that if you want to make an extremely literal argument. I never saw any "Circle Mage" inside the Gallows. I was told they just snuck out of the Gallows, I was led to believe that they lived in the Gallows with all the other conspirators. I never saw them "inside" the Gallows.

If I see smoke pouring out of a window, I usually simply assume that there is smoke inside the building. I also usually assume something inside the building is causing the smoke.

I will concede this is a fallacy of logic and I have no way of having 100% certainty that the smoke is coming from inside the building. If I want to hold to a rigid logic I would need to enter the building and ascertain the smoke is inside. Then I would need to make sure that the source of the smoke was inside. Once I found the source I would need to make sure it was actually fire by letting it burn me. Then I could call the fire dept.

[LobselVith8]

Benchmark wrote...

This is a really strange argument? Where did you think they are coming from? Orsino tells you they are sneaking out of the Gallows to have a meeting. They just snuck out of the Gallows. They are labeled "Circle Mage" and you are told they just snuck out of the Gallows. At least the first group you eavesdrop on certainly just snuck out of the Gallows. and as soon as they see you they start summoning demons.

You're addressing a coalition of templars and mages. The same coalition falls apart after Ser Thrask and Grace are killed. Given that Grace and Alain weren't the same, and neither was Ser Thrask or the renegade templars who fought for Grace, I don't see why you think this is a good assessment on the entire Circle of Magi.

Benchmark wrote...

I don't know how that doesn't point to something inside the circle is not kosher.

Because it deals with a small percentage of templars and mages, and Hawke never actually encounters the many mages and apprentices in the Gallows to know what the denizens of the Gallows are actually like.

Benchmark wrote...

I am not speculating, I am stating what events happened in game. "Circle Mage" summons demon...

You're speculating on all the Circles mages in the Gallows on the actions of mages who are outside of the Gallows.

Benchmark wrote...

I can concede that if you want to make an extremely literal argument. I never saw any "Circle Mage" inside the Gallows. I was told they just snuck out of the Gallows, I was led to believe that they lived in the Gallows with all the other conspirators. I never saw them "inside" the Gallows.

It's not literal as much as factual. Claiming that the small insurrectionist group should determine the behavior of all the mages in the Circle of Magi makes no sense at all. We can't judge the behavior of all the men, women, and children who we never meet. Hawke never deals directly with the many mages and apprentices in the Circle of Magi, but rather apostates (which is what the mages with Grace are listed as) and some mages outside of the Gallows, with the exception of Bethany and Orsino.

Benchmark wrote...

If I see smoke pouring out of a window, I usually simply assume that there is smoke inside the building. I also usually assume something inside the building is causing the smoke.

And if I see Hawke fighting carta members, I know better than to assume that all dwarves are like the carta members Hawke fought, no matter how many he may have to deal with.

Benchmark wrote...

I will concede this is a fallacy of logic and I have no way of having 100% certainty that the smoke is coming from inside the building. If I want to hold to a rigid logic I would need to enter the building and ascertain the smoke is inside. Then I would need to make sure that the source of the smoke was inside. Once I found the source I would need to make sure it was actually fire by letting it burn me. Then I could call the fire dept.

The problem is DA2 never provides us with a chance to see what the mages are actually like in the Gallows. At best, we have Bethany's letter as the closest insight we have into what the Circle of Magi is like.

[Benchmark]

LobselVith8 wrote...

You know, I am fine with this. I am not trying to take away your belief that many of the mages in the circle are good people.  I am just saying I think there is a reason to suspect the circle has some serious problems and if a player chosses to, can decide that it is still hiding blood mages.

I am not actually Hawke. As the player it isn't possible to investigate. To ask more questions than are on your wheel of fortune. To search for clues that don't pop up when highlighted.

The game gives you huge license to take what you feel is representative and make it part of your game world. I just decided that -"Circle Mage" /wrist arrrgh demons!- would make me very suspicious of what extracurriculars were being offered in there.

You certainly don't have to do the same.

[LobselVith8]

Benchmark wrote...

You know, I am fine with this. I am not trying to take away your belief that many of the mages in the circle are good people.  I am just saying I think there is a reason to suspect the circle has some serious problems and if a player chosses to, can decide that it is still hiding blood mages.

I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm stating we don't know what the mages and apprentices are like, because we genuinely don't know what the mages and apprentices are like. I can't say they're good or bad as Hawke never meets them; the few he speaks with gives some lines, but it's hardly enough to know what mages and apprentices in the Gallows are like.

Benchmark wrote...

I am not actually Hawke. As the player it isn't possible to investigate. To ask more questions than are on your wheel of fortune. To search for clues that don't pop up when highlighted.

That's part of the problem: we can't investigate it. I think part of the problem with the story is that Hawke is reactive instead of proactive; he really doesn't do anything on his own initiative.

Benchmark wrote...

The game gives you huge license to take what you feel is representative and make it part of your game world. I just decided that -"Circle Mage" /wrist arrrgh demons!- would make me very suspicious of what extracurriculars were being offered in there.

You certainly don't have to do the same.

That's not the case when WoG has addressed that certain things aren't true, i.e. the codex entries and characters who say mages are forced into servitude or serve the Chantry are as incorrect as the explanation for Maric's death in Something Wicked and the reference about apostates in the Magi Origin. Likewise, people can make mistakes because the limited information we have doesn't assess the real picture, like when Gaider explained that women can't legally get raped by chevaliers in Orlais. Therefore, we don't really have license when it comes to canon.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Benchmark wrote...

If I see smoke pouring out of a window, I usually simply assume that there is smoke inside the building. I also usually assume something inside the building is causing the smoke.

And if I see Hawke fighting carta members, I know better than to assume that all dwarves are like the carta members Hawke fought, no matter how many he may have to deal with.

That is an incorrect comparison. The correct comparison would be more like: If you fight a group of Carta members and the members of the group all happen to be Dwarves, you assume that all (or most) Carta members are Dwarves.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 21 avril 2011 - 02:01 .

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That is an incorrect comparison. The correct comparison would be more like: If you fight a group of Carta members and the members of the group all happen to be Dwarves, you assume that all (or most) Carta members are Dwarves.

It's not an incorrect comparison if one is making an assessment about a large group of people on the basis of a fraction of them.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That is an incorrect comparison. The correct comparison would be more like: If you fight a group of Carta members and the members of the group all happen to be Dwarves, you assume that all (or most) Carta members are Dwarves.

It's not an incorrect comparison if one is making an assessment about a large group of people on the basis of a fraction of them.

But that's done all the time, you know.

Political polls, product quality testing, random sampling, etc.  Even Bioware, which uses their "telemetry" to evaluate the game (5% of people played DAO as a dwarf, for instance) is based on a sampling of the larger group.  Many statistics work this way.

Is it alwats accurate?  No, of course not.  But you can't simply dismiss it on the basis that it's not looking at EVERY mage. 

[IanPolaris]

TJPags wrote...
But that's done all the time, you know.

Political polls, product quality testing, random sampling, etc.  Even Bioware, which uses their "telemetry" to evaluate the game (5% of people played DAO as a dwarf, for instance) is based on a sampling of the larger group.  Many statistics work this way.

Is it alwats accurate?  No, of course not.  But you can't simply dismiss it on the basis that it's not looking at EVERY mage. 

Here's the difference.  When you do statistical sampling and polling, great effort is made sure that you have a properly reprsentative sample.  In this case even the Devs have admitted that you (as Hawke) are only being shown an extremely one sided and skewed view of mages in Kirkwall:

1.  Because they escaped/avoided the gallows which makes them criminals already.  A criminal mage (just by being outside) is far, far more likely to engage in other criminal activity than one that isn't.

2.  You are being sent to mages that are specifically creating problems.

I promise you that if you tried to make conclusions about African Americans based only on the African Americans locked up in Federal Prisons, you'd get very skewed and very wrong results.  Same, same.

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

Benchmark wrote...

You know, I am fine with this. I am not trying to take away your belief that many of the mages in the circle are good people.  I am just saying I think there is a reason to suspect the circle has some serious problems and if a player chosses to, can decide that it is still hiding blood mages.

I am not actually Hawke. As the player it isn't possible to investigate. To ask more questions than are on your wheel of fortune. To search for clues that don't pop up when highlighted.

The game gives you huge license to take what you feel is representative and make it part of your game world. I just decided that -"Circle Mage" /wrist arrrgh demons!- would make me very suspicious of what extracurriculars were being offered in there.

You certainly don't have to do the same.

And I agree with you on that.  I do think the Circle of Kirkwall is rife with corruption.  If it were up to me, I'd say it needs to be moved out of that vortex of insanity immediately and then extreme precautions taken while investigations are made to determine a) which mages are innocent, which mages are insane, which mages are just taking to extreme methods because of templars like Alrik and Karras, which mages are simply evil, and can the ones driven off their rocker by Kirkwall's veil be cured of their sickness.

But I also believe that an action as drastic as the RoA, killing every single man, woman, and child, requires more than supposition.  There are many morally grey areas in DA.  A corrupt king whose policies are better for the people, or a well meaning kind who's too mired in tradition to realize he's part of the problem?  Spare a war criminal because he's a skilled general whose keen strategic mind might be the difference between victory and defeat, or make him face execution and instead put a great king and a loyal friend on the throne?  Trust the dwarves to use a soul-enslaving device only on willing volunteers or give up an army of golems which would be a force to be reckoned with even by today's standards while you're under invasion by a massive army of pure evil?  Trust a dubious witch not to use a divine power for evil or condemn either a great king or yourself to death (which will be quite the surprise for your love interest)?  These are all great grey areas where there is no "right" answer.  I don't believe the RoA in Kirkwall is one of them.  I think it's very clear cut that you don't slaughter a bunch of people without knowing whether most of them are guilty of anything or if there's even a great threat posed by them that cannot be solved any other way.

TJPags wrote...

But that's done all the time, you know.

Political polls, product quality testing, random sampling, etc.  Even Bioware, which uses their "telemetry" to evaluate the game (5% of people played DAO as a dwarf, for instance) is based on a sampling of the larger group.  Many statistics work this way.

Is it alwats accurate?  No, of course not.  But you can't simply dismiss it on the basis that it's not looking at EVERY mage. 

If I was one of the pro-Chantry folk, I suppose this is where I'd indignantly claim you're comparing learning about a gaming audience to mass murder.  Instead, I'll point out that the level of certainty required is proportionate to the consequences of it being wrong.  The consequences of an unjust RoA?  Beyond description.  The consequences of misjudging a gaming audience's preferences?  Not so much.

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...
But that's done all the time, you know.

Political polls, product quality testing, random sampling, etc.  Even Bioware, which uses their "telemetry" to evaluate the game (5% of people played DAO as a dwarf, for instance) is based on a sampling of the larger group.  Many statistics work this way.

Is it alwats accurate?  No, of course not.  But you can't simply dismiss it on the basis that it's not looking at EVERY mage. 

Here's the difference.  When you do statistical sampling and polling, great effort is made sure that you have a properly reprsentative sample.  In this case even the Devs have admitted that you (as Hawke) are only being shown an extremely one sided and skewed view of mages in Kirkwall:

1.  Because they escaped/avoided the gallows which makes them criminals already.  A criminal mage (just by being outside) is far, far more likely to engage in other criminal activity than one that isn't.

2.  You are being sent to mages that are specifically creating problems.

I promise you that if you tried to make conclusions about African Americans based only on the African Americans locked up in Federal Prisons, you'd get very skewed and very wrong results.  Same, same.

-Polaris

The problem, Ian-  and I think we likely agree on this - is that we are only shown a certain number of mages.  It's not like I'm only choosing to accept certain mages as a representative sample.  I'm choosing to use the mages that we get exposed to.

That is a problem, and it's very like the one you describe.  But what else is a player to do?  Ignore what's shown?

Rifneno wrote...

TJPags wrote...

But that's done all the time, you know.

Political polls, product quality testing, random sampling, etc.  Even Bioware, which uses their "telemetry" to evaluate the game (5% of people played DAO as a dwarf, for instance) is based on a sampling of the larger group.  Many statistics work this way.

Is it alwats accurate?  No, of course not.  But you can't simply dismiss it on the basis that it's not looking at EVERY mage. 

If I was one of the pro-Chantry folk, I suppose this is where I'd indignantly claim you're comparing learning about a gaming audience to mass murder.  Instead, I'll point out that the level of certainty required is proportionate to the consequences of it being wrong.  The consequences of an unjust RoA?  Beyond description.  The consequences of misjudging a gaming audience's preferences?  Not so much.

I'm not sure why a Pro-Chantry person would be indignant with my comparison - it is highly in their favor, after all.

That aside, here's where I'd point out that you're actually calling a game choice mass murder, and sounding like you mean it.

Here's where I'd also point out that I'm not "Pro-Chantry". 

[TexasToast712]

JnEricsonx wrote...

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

The Templar side isnt as bad as all these pro mage whiners make it out to be. I sided with them and spared every mage I could that wasnt clearly evil. Even my sister Bethany who was in the Circle was spared. The Kirkwall Circle needed to be razed to the ground. The corruption of blood magic and possession was to widespread to ignore. I dont hate all mages. I only hate the ones that try to kill me.

[LobselVith8]

TexasToast712 wrote...

JnEricsonx wrote...

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

The Templar side isnt as bad as all these pro mage whiners make it out to be. I sided with them and spared every mage I could that wasnt clearly evil. Even my sister Bethany who was in the Circle was spared. The Kirkwall Circle needed to be razed to the ground. The corruption of blood magic and possession was to widespread to ignore. I dont hate all mages. I only hate the ones that try to kill me.

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

[TexasToast712]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

JnEricsonx wrote...

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

The Templar side isnt as bad as all these pro mage whiners make it out to be. I sided with them and spared every mage I could that wasnt clearly evil. Even my sister Bethany who was in the Circle was spared. The Kirkwall Circle needed to be razed to the ground. The corruption of blood magic and possession was to widespread to ignore. I dont hate all mages. I only hate the ones that try to kill me.

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Never says that. I also hear people saying that the mage Alain makes mention of being raped in the Circle. I tried but couldnt find where he says this. Some direction would help.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

JnEricsonx wrote...

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

The Templar side isnt as bad as all these pro mage whiners make it out to be. I sided with them and spared every mage I could that wasnt clearly evil. Even my sister Bethany who was in the Circle was spared. The Kirkwall Circle needed to be razed to the ground. The corruption of blood magic and possession was to widespread to ignore. I dont hate all mages. I only hate the ones that try to kill me.

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Yes, but since there aren't supposed to be any mages taken prisoner, and since once Meredith dies, I'd venture to say Cullen - who took them prisoner - is likely in charge, the chances of that happening seem remote.

[LobselVith8]

TexasToast712 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Never says that. I also hear people saying that the mage Alain makes mention of being raped in the Circle. I tried but couldnt find where he says this. Some direction would help.

David Gaider explained that's what happens to mages who are taken prisoner.

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 21 avril 2011 - 03:04 .

[TexasToast712]

TJPags wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

JnEricsonx wrote...

I've always sided with Mages, but this time, I'm playing a FemHawke warrior who while she doesn't hate mages, is leery about them, only trusting Bethany because she knows her and knows how even Bethany wishes she wasnt a mage.  So, how does the siding with templars in Act 3 work?

The Templar side isnt as bad as all these pro mage whiners make it out to be. I sided with them and spared every mage I could that wasnt clearly evil. Even my sister Bethany who was in the Circle was spared. The Kirkwall Circle needed to be razed to the ground. The corruption of blood magic and possession was to widespread to ignore. I dont hate all mages. I only hate the ones that try to kill me.

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Yes, but since there aren't supposed to be any mages taken prisoner, and since once Meredith dies, I'd venture to say Cullen - who took them prisoner - is likely in charge, the chances of that happening seem remote.

That and being a Viscount who isnt afraid to speak up and friends with Cullen in the end would also likely mean the mages are spared completely.

[LobselVith8]

TexasToast712 wrote...

That and being a Viscount who isnt afraid to speak up and friends with Cullen in the end would also likely mean the mages are spared completely.

Except mage survivors are only mentioned in the pro-mage ending.

[TexasToast712]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Never says that. I also hear people saying that the mage Alain makes mention of being raped in the Circle. I tried but couldnt find where he says this. Some direction would help.

David Gaider explained that's what happens to mages who are taken prisoner.

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

Theory isnt fact. Just like they might also be spared completely due to Hawke's influence, they might also be made tranquil. We cant know for certain but dont use a theory as a fact.

[TJPags]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Never says that. I also hear people saying that the mage Alain makes mention of being raped in the Circle. I tried but couldnt find where he says this. Some direction would help.

David Gaider explained that's what happens to mages who are taken prisoner.

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

As with many DG posts, this one is becoming twisted to meet the ends of the people posting it.

He clearly says that during the Right of Anullment, prisoners are not taken.  Yet Cullen will take prisoners.

He clearly says any mages who survive "could theoretically be made Tranquil".  Which is not a definitive statement of what happens.  And clearly doesn't contemplate mages being taken prisoner.

[LobselVith8]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Theory isnt fact. Just like they might also be spared completely due to Hawke's influence, they might also be made tranquil. We cant know for certain but dont use a theory as a fact.

Because sparing mages is theoretical when templars take a "no prisoners" policy. Considering he didn't say that mages aren't spared outright, it seems like you're trying to have it both ways - supporting the templars and saving the mages. It doesn't work that way - you either support the templars, or the mages. I don't see why you're trying to insinuate that supporting Meredith's Right of Annulment means mages are spared when templars are killing mages and WoG has said that if mages were spared, they would be made tranquil.

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

As with many DG posts, this one is becoming twisted to meet the ends of the people posting it.

It seems more like the people who supported the templars want to pretend that nobody dies when Meredith enacts the Right of Annulment.

TJPags wrote...

He clearly says that during the Right of Anullment, prisoners are not taken.  Yet Cullen will take prisoners.

And Gaider already addressed the alternative to killing mages in the Right of Annulment.

TJPags wrote...

He clearly says any mages who survive "could theoretically be made Tranquil".  Which is not a definitive statement of what happens.  And clearly doesn't contemplate mages being taken prisoner.

Because templars are supposed to kill mages, as he addressed when he stated that they have a "take no prisoners" policy, and we already know Cullen has said mages can't be treated like people and are weapons.

[Benchmark]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circle mages who are spared from getting killed in the Right of Annulment are made tranquil instead.

Never says that. I also hear people saying that the mage Alain makes mention of being raped in the Circle. I tried but couldnt find where he says this. Some direction would help.

David Gaider explained that's what happens to mages who are taken prisoner.

David Gaider wrote...

The issue is this:

By the time the Right of Annulment is invoked, the tower in question has moved beyond the possibility of mages being brought under control enough that Tranquility would even be possible. It's possible some mages might survive the initial assault, but the order cannot be "take any prisoners you can" simply because by that point a mage might have been corrupted and become a blood mage... something which cannot be detected under normal circumstances. Thus capturing them becomes a means for them to escape the quarantine.

So therefore the order is "kill everyone". At the end of the day, if any mages are still alive for whatever reason... then, yes, I imagine they could theroretically be made Tranquil as opposed to executed outright.

I already went into a huge debate to show that what you are doing right now is misrepresenting DGs comment for use in a way it wasn't intended.  Also that you aren't applying it correctly to the situation and are downright ignoring all information given in game.

Don't "state" what happens to the mages that surrender or to Bethany. Your snip doesn't prove what you want it to. Stop using it while attempting to do that.