945 Antworten in diesem Thema

[abovetheangels]

Haha man this game is just. I dont understand why game developers are downgrading the customization in their RPG's. I mean the only thing I truly liked better about this game then Origins was that Nightmare was actually Nightmare this time and the combat hands down was better so animations were as well.

As for everything else it was pretty generic feeling. Companions were bland and to limited in both customization and skill trees to really be versatile. Maps were really annoying I felt like I was playing the Pit over and over again on Halo 3. I mean FPS games have more maps then this had. At least you can veto in those.

I played through this game twice. I didnt hate it I just dont understand why many RPGS coming out are ridding away RPG elements and making a new genre. It doesnt make sense because action rpgs fail to really please old school RPG fans and people who like action games still feel like this isnt their cup of tea.

I feel Dungeon SIege 3 will also be following this path.

[frustratemyself]

I reloaded my first play through last night to see how siding with the templars played out. I didn't play it all through though cause to me it was pretty horrific. That Hawke romanced Anders then let him go after the Chantry blew. Bethany had also been taken to the Circle and pleaded with me and asked was I going to kill her too.
When I got to the Gallows Anders attacked me and I took him out with 1 hit using assassinate. I then had several mages surrender to me begging for their lives to be spared. At that point I closed out and went back to current play through.
I'm a pretty hard hearted b*tch in real life but it was too much for me. Just soul-less slaughter.

[Peer of the Empire]

So how does the "choosing to side Templar" play out?

Very well

[Rifneno]

frustratemyself wrote...

I reloaded my first play through last night to see how siding with the templars played out. I didn't play it all through though cause to me it was pretty horrific. That Hawke romanced Anders then let him go after the Chantry blew. Bethany had also been taken to the Circle and pleaded with me and asked was I going to kill her too.
When I got to the Gallows Anders attacked me and I took him out with 1 hit using assassinate. I then had several mages surrender to me begging for their lives to be spared. At that point I closed out and went back to current play through.
I'm a pretty hard hearted b*tch in real life but it was too much for me. Just soul-less slaughter.

This.  When you encounter that many people begging for mercy, you know you're doing something wrong.

[nos_astra]

frustratemyself wrote...
I'm a pretty hard hearted b*tch in real life but it was too much for me. Just soul-less slaughter.

I'm very soft-hearted in real life and I had no problem playing through it. I simply felt it made sense for the setting and the way I had played my Hawke so far.

[Jassper]

Benchmark wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You can spare her if you send her to the Circle yet sides with the Templars. She will be rather sad, if you side with Templars, either way.

Her feelings are entirely justified.  In fact, after you beat Orisino (if pro-templar), Meredith calls for Bethay's head (and you can give it to her).  Either way, she bitterly askes you (as best I recall), "So am I, your sister, the next mage you are willing to sacrifice for the Templars?"  It's a damn good question since by all acounts she did nothing wrong.....and it hows just how fundamentally morally indefensible the Templar position really is.

-Polaris

Negative Ghostrider.

I just played that ending 3 hrs ago. In the first confrontation she asks if you will really make her choose between you or the circle and if you are willing to fight against her. You can ask if she will fight for you but Orsino convinces her to stay with him.

When you get your fight with Orsino she is horrified by his use of blood magic and angered by his comments that you will die. She doesn't want her brother to die and doesnt condone blood magic, she sides with you in the battle.

Meredith demands her life. You can let her kill Bethany, or you can refuse. At this point Cullen has already been trying to curb Meredith down and has flat out refused to kill mages that surrendered, so she agrees to leave you alone.

The final battle Bethany and Cullen can help you after Cullen tries to have Meredith arrested for threatening to kill Hawke again... Final sith lord battle ensues.

Bethany is the best part of the story. I made her a warden in one play-threw and she sidded with me in the end and Maredith never demanded her head, nor did she she anything about Merril, my love interest, even when siding with the Templars. I am finding very different outcomes for her throughout the game - unlike the rest of it that is mundane and directional.

[Rifneno]

Jassper wrote...
Bethany is the best part of the story. I made her a warden in one play-threw and she sidded with me in the end and Maredith never demanded her head, nor did she she anything about Merril, my love interest, even when siding with the Templars. I am finding very different outcomes for her throughout the game - unlike the rest of it that is mundane and directional.

The Annulment only applies to the Circle.  If Bethany is a warden, she's not a member of the Circle.

[frustratemyself]

klarabella wrote...

frustratemyself wrote...
I'm a pretty hard hearted b*tch in real life but it was too much for me. Just soul-less slaughter.

I'm very soft-hearted in real life and I had no problem playing through it. I simply felt it made sense for the setting and the way I had played my Hawke so far.

I guess it depends on the character you play and I've never really sympathised with the Templar camp but to each their own. I always seem to end up playing bleeding heart goody-goodies, not sure why.
I use up most of my mean & nasty at work where people can glare at me in person.

[Jassper]

Rifneno wrote...

Jassper wrote...
Bethany is the best part of the story. I made her a warden in one play-threw and she sidded with me in the end and Maredith never demanded her head, nor did she she anything about Merril, my love interest, even when siding with the Templars. I am finding very different outcomes for her throughout the game - unlike the rest of it that is mundane and directional.

The Annulment only applies to the Circle.  If Bethany is a warden, she's not a member of the Circle.

I understand that, but as screwed in the head as Maredith is, don't you think she would at least say something? And Merril, shes an apostate, and as stated so clearly at the start - "The law is dictates...".

Bearbeitet von Jassper, 19 April 2011 - 05:46 .

[IanPolaris]

Jassper wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Jassper wrote...
Bethany is the best part of the story. I made her a warden in one play-threw and she sidded with me in the end and Maredith never demanded her head, nor did she she anything about Merril, my love interest, even when siding with the Templars. I am finding very different outcomes for her throughout the game - unlike the rest of it that is mundane and directional.

The Annulment only applies to the Circle.  If Bethany is a warden, she's not a member of the Circle.

I understand that, but as screwed in the head as Maredith is, don't you think she would at least say something? And Merril, shes an apostate, and as stated so clearly at the start - "The law is dictates...".

Actually it's Meredith's total blindness to Merrill that amazes me the most.  No matter how you play it, Meredith doesn't seem to care at all that Merrill is right there (only Bethany) despite the fact that not only is Merrill an apostate, she is an openly practicing maleficar.

-Polaris

[Icy Magebane]

Meredith can say whatever she wants, Grey Wardens don't follow the laws of the Chantry. While it may have made sense for a lyrium-idol-addled Meredith to attack anyway, they developers probably figured that option would be more trouble than it was worth. I don't know.

As for Merrill and Anders... well, let's just say that I don't think it makes much sense for Hawke to be handing over every apostate and circle mage he encounters, but doesn't do anything with these two. Supporting the Templars while traveling with a blood mage and abomination? Nah... that doesn't make sense.

@IanPolaris - Anders routinely makes reference to himself being a mage in front of Chantry and Templars... Bioware just didn't care about sticking to the lore when it comes to mage party members.  That's how I see it anyway.

Bearbeitet von Icy Magebane, 19 April 2011 - 06:25 .

[The Angry One]

It just occurs to me, if it's true there's a way to pull Anders along on the Templar side, you could have all the Templars in Kirkwall kneeling to a party of mage!Hawke, Merril, Bethany and Anders.
Bring on the 2nd Imperium!

[Torax]

If both Carver and Bethany are dead she just goes straight for Hawke. But that is part of that showing a truly pure mage that Meredith would want dead. I doubt it was meant as anything past that. She was already crazy enough as it is. Why try to apply logic to any of her actions?

[IanPolaris]

The Angry One wrote...

It just occurs to me, if it's true there's a way to pull Anders along on the Templar side, you could have all the Templars in Kirkwall kneeling to a party of mage!Hawke, Merril, Bethany and Anders.
Bring on the 2nd Imperium!

I agree and it bothers me.  There is no way the Templars would do that (even if you sided with them).  That's why I wish there was an alternate "First Enchanter of Kirkwall" acheivement for a mage that sides with the Templars instead of Viscount because the Templars would never permit any mage (no matter how well regarded) to be Viscount of Kirkwall.

-Polaris

Bearbeitet von IanPolaris, 19 April 2011 - 06:29 .

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It just occurs to me, if it's true there's a way to pull Anders along on the Templar side, you could have all the Templars in Kirkwall kneeling to a party of mage!Hawke, Merril, Bethany and Anders.
Bring on the 2nd Imperium!

I agree and it bothers me.  There is no way the Templars would do that (even if you sided with them).  That's why I wish there was an alternate "First Enchanter of Kirkwall" acheivement for a mage that sides with the Templars instead of Viscount because the Templars would never permit any mage (no matter how well regarded) to be Viscount of Kirkwall.

-Polaris

If Hawke was said to be then in the Circle, then you'd have people asking things like why isn't Cassandra having their Phylactery used to track Hawke's location. Unless then as a cheap writing ploy they have to say something like "There was a fire.". They kept it as 2 versions of an ending. Running away or being Viscount and fortunes changing. Having a Circle rebuilt and Hawke as the First Enchanter actually makes no sense. The supposed rebelion they are painting it out to be should be clue enough of how silly the thought is of a Circle still being in Kirkwall. Wouldn't that nullify many hopes of mages outside Kirkwall.

"So did you hear about how that Knight Commander and the First Enchanter both died in Kirkwall. Turns out they got a new Knight Commander and a new First Enchanter. Both are from Fereldon."

"Hmm, fair enough."

[IanPolaris]

Torax,

It's not as problematic as you are trying to make it. It's just sloppy writing. We know that the Knight Commander can promote and appoint a new First Enchanter on the spot after an annulment. Why? Gregoire does this with Wynne (Wynne turned it down, but Gregoire does initially apoint her as new first enchanter). As for Hawke being an apostate, that's a technicality and you know it. Hawke "surrenders" to Knight Capt Cullen, who then immediately (for the same of security) puts Hawke through the Harrowing (we know that's what they did with Bethany after all).

If Hawke fails, no problem. If not, Cullen appoints him as first enchanter. Makes a lot more sense than the Templars allowing an open apostate to be Viscount. [Remember that at the time there is no way either party could know that all the circles would rebel.]

-Polaris

[Torax]

It's sloppy writing to want a circle made in Kirkwall just for justification of a mage player end result.

Other Circles are looking at what is happening in Kirkwall.

"Hey man, did you hear how Kirkwall is now run by Fereldons?"

"Awesome, didn't it work out great there for mages?"

"Yup, it was great there so I bet Kirkwall is going to be alright now."

[IanPolaris]

Torax wrote...

It's sloppy writing to want a circle made in Kirkwall just for justification of a mage player end result.

Other Circles are looking at what is happening in Kirkwall.

"Hey man, did you hear how Kirkwall is now run by Fereldons?"

"Awesome, didn't it work out great there for mages?"

"Yup, it was great there so I bet Kirkwall is going to be alright now."

Disagree with you there.  The writing in this case is fine.  If you remember from DAA, the Circles had been on the knife edge of an open repudiation of the Chantry for years and apparently Wynne only barely managed to keep them from declaring their independance during DAA.  Her argument wasn't a ringing endorsement of the Chantry either but the brutal calculation that the Chantry and Templars would rather kill every mage than set them free.

What Kirkwall showed is the Chantry is willing to kill all mages (or at least is unwilling to control a knight commander who is clearly fruitloops) anyway.  That massively undercuts Wynne's entire argument, and the Aequartarians would then say, "The Libertarians were right all along" and the circles would revolt en-masse.

-Polaris

[Torax]

Do you not contend that many mages would have been happy with the end results of Origins? Besides the Libs who wouldn't settle for anything but the Chantry being gone. So if many of the mages would then hear how now a First Enchanter and the Knight Commander of the Kirkwall situation were from Fereldon. Wouldn't that make many calm down in the situation at least as far as using Kirkwall as this shining symbol of rebelion? Fereldons took out the trouble makers and brought it back to a moderate way that Circle should be? The Libs wouldn't have been happy either way so don't try to use that as an excuse.

[Jassper]

The Angry One wrote...

It just occurs to me, if it's true there's a way to pull Anders along on the Templar side, you could have all the Templars in Kirkwall kneeling to a party of mage!Hawke, Merril, Bethany and Anders.
Bring on the 2nd Imperium!

Here are two of them

Bearbeitet von Jassper, 19 April 2011 - 07:36 .

[LobselVith8]

Torax wrote...

Do you not contend that many mages would have been happy with the end results of Origins?

First Enchanter Irving is happy when the Hero of Ferelden asks for the Magi boon, since he feels that it freed the mages from "their shackles."

Torax wrote...

So if many of the mages would then hear how now a First Enchanter and the Knight Commander of the Kirkwall situation were from Fereldon. Wouldn't that make many calm down in the situation at least as far as using Kirkwall as this shining symbol of rebelion?

 
Not when the mages in the Circle of Magi are being executed because of the actions of an apostate.

Torax wrote...

Fereldons took out the trouble makers and brought it back to a moderate way that Circle should be? The Libs wouldn't have been happy either way so don't try to use that as an excuse.

By taking "out the trouble makers," you mean killing every mage and apprentice in the Gallows because of the actions of a Grey Warden mage in the Right of Annulment?

[Wulfram]

I'd see being made First Enchanter as something of a demotion for the Champion, which would be a bit annoying to have sprung on you after winning. Though I've also played characters who would turn down the Viscountcy on principle even if the Templars offered it.

[Benchmark]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Torax wrote...

Fereldons took out the trouble makers and brought it back to a moderate way that Circle should be? The Libs wouldn't have been happy either way so don't try to use that as an excuse.

By taking "out the trouble makers," you mean killing every mage and apprentice in the Gallows because of the actions of a Grey Warden mage in the Right of Annulment?

Because this happens when you play an amazingly evil Hawke that never has mercy and lets everyone die when it doesn't fulfill his goals?

In my playthrough, Hawke definitely "took out the trouble makers". He didn't kill every mage and apprentice in the Gallows, in fact he showed mercy on any mages willing to surrender. A trend that Cullen continued by defying Meredith and using The Champions authority and prestige to do it. I have already had discussions about this game being representative in scale, so that would represent that other mages willing to surrender would be spared also.

Since The Champion was the spearhead of the assault and this event happens at the very begining, the obvious implication is that Cullen is going to take prisoners of any mage that doesn't resort to blood magic and surrenders. Cullen showed that is a decision he is going to make despite Mere.

My Hawke cleaned the circle out of dozens of demons and the mages that were summoning them. Mages not in a panic either, but in extremely organized kill zones. Once that was broken through, Hawke merely had to kill demon after demon that had been let loose through the circle. Finally he finds a terrified and indignant Bethany in the company of Orsino, who had just commited blood sacrifice of his fellow mages. Hawke kills "O" with Bethany's help and then shields her from Mere.

Bearbeitet von Benchmark, 19 April 2011 - 08:44 .

[Torax]

Think about it Lob. As I'm sure you're quick to support Ian on it. It's idiotic to think that so many Circles would still revolt. Especially if word gets out that a new Stable Circle arose from the chaos. One where a Knight Commander and the Champion who cut down Meredith themselves as the new First Enchanter working with Cullen. This is the opposite of what they need. Most wouldn't know who the hell Anders was cause he died. All they'd know is that a chantry exploded cause of magic and a crazy lady who died was trying annul the circle. Not all were killed and a new Circle arose within in a week or so. That is idiotic to think as a possible end result. It is silly at best and works against the whole Mage/Templar chaos that they need coming out of it. Why you can be Viscount but a Circle there has to be either rebelled or pretty much destroyed. It cannot be stable...

[Joy Divison]

What I do not understand is why the option exists to show mercy to the mages which surrendered. If the Right of Annulment has been invoked, don't they have to die? How is this up for debate?