291 réponses à ce sujet

[Bostur]

I just found this on the escapist:
http://www.escapistm...ies-Get-Over-It


This young angry gentlemen, argues that because games have an inferiority complex and would rather be movies, they try too hard to be something they are not.

To put this into a more specific context, Bioware do specialize in a genre with a lot of movie qualities. Do some BW games try too hard to look like Hollywood movies? Or do games in general?

I personally think games have unique ways to establish a setting, and to a lesser extent tell a story that 'sequential' media like books or movies can't do. Books and movies need to show things, games can actually to some extent do it, but some help from a traditional narrative is probably needed.


*Drumroll* Internet meme coming up:
Discuss!


Edit: Oh and I also think the guy in the video is quite funny.

Modifié par Bostur, 18 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[brownybrown]

well that may be the case but you can bet your bottom dollar that EA would like to be the next Warner Brothers/Fox studios/Sony pictures.

[Bostur]

brownybrown wrote...

well that may be the case but you can bet your bottom dollar that EA would like to be the next Warner Brothers/Fox studios/Sony pictures.

It certainly feels like it sometimes, at least from an economic point of view.

But maybe EA can be bigger than Warner Brothers if they embrace the idea that they aren't limited to what movies can do?

[Haexpane]

Every Michael Bay Movie (Transformers, Transformers 2 etc..) is worse than any videogame story ever.

The story of Super Mario Bros is 100x better than "Shia LeBueaf drives a cool car"

[Rockpopple]

If any company tries too hard to make their games look like movies it's SquareEnix.

I think BioWare uses cutscenes to great effect. Doesn't mean they're trying to be like movies, just means they're trying to tell a good story.

[brownybrown]

Maybe you can distill Transformers to "young man with no obvious talents saves humanity from a race of AI killing machines"
ME1,2 at least had veteran war hero heads up a team to save humanity from a race of AI killing machines.
but really its in the execution than movies come out crap.

[Bostur]

Rockpopple wrote...

If any company tries too hard to make their games look like movies it's SquareEnix.

I think BioWare uses cutscenes to great effect. Doesn't mean they're trying to be like movies, just means they're trying to tell a good story.

One thing I noticed with DA2 is that a lot of traditional storytelling elements that is usually reserved for games was cut out of DA2. Things that are usually considered flavour in games. Item descriptions, icons, even things like graphics on enemies in combat could have been used. Enemy leaders shouting taunts, coats of arms, things like that. Those aren't narrative linear storytelling techniques but helps games establish a setting.

Some of the items that Hawke and Companions start with could have been used to tell a little bit more about the background.
"This was the staff that helped Anders escape from imprisonment during...."


I agree that BW are good at cutscenes. No doubt about it.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

They aren't... but they will be.  Half Life 2...  FEAR... ME2... DA2...  That's the future of games.  The old guard can rail and moan all they like, games are not going to go back to being part novel part spreadsheet.

Games are moving closer and closer to game/movie hybrids.  And I cannot wait.  :D:D

[erynnar]

Bostur wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

If any company tries too hard to make their games look like movies it's SquareEnix.

I think BioWare uses cutscenes to great effect. Doesn't mean they're trying to be like movies, just means they're trying to tell a good story.

One thing I noticed with DA2 is that a lot of traditional storytelling elements that is usually reserved for games was cut out of DA2. Things that are usually considered flavour in games. Item descriptions, icons, even things like graphics on enemies in combat could have been used. Enemy leaders shouting taunts, coats of arms, things like that. Those aren't narrative linear storytelling techniques but helps games establish a setting.

Some of the items that Hawke and Companions start with could have been used to tell a little bit more about the background.
"This was the staff that helped Anders escape from imprisonment during...."


I agree that BW are good at cutscenes. No doubt about it.

I think cutscenes have their place. I think DAO used them in the right amount. If I want a movie I'll go watch a movie. If I want to just read a novel I will. But DAO seemed to tweak that sweet spot for me...choose your own adventure graphically animated book.  

I think DA2 went overkill. What works for ME does not work for DA as they are different genres. I miss the storytelling and got tired of one cut scene after another. As I said, if I want a movie I'll go to a theater, or I willpop in a DVD. If I want nothing but a book I will read one.  DAO had it right (maybe even done it a smidge more), and unfortunately instead of tweaking it and improving what DAO got right, we got the button of awsome and movie cuts. Thanks but no thanks.

I miss the descriptions too, and all the little details.

[fchopin]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

They aren't... but they will be.  Half Life 2...  FEAR... ME2... DA2...  That's the future of games.  The old guard can rail and moan all they like, games are not going to go back to being part novel part spreadsheet.

Games are moving closer and closer to game/movie hybrids.  And I cannot wait.  :D:D

Give your self a cookie, it will make you feel better, or better still watch a movie.

[Khayness]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

They aren't... but they will be.  Half Life 2...  FEAR... ME2... DA2...  That's the future of games.  The old guard can rail and moan all they like, games are not going to go back to being part novel part spreadsheet.

Games are moving closer and closer to game/movie hybrids.  And I cannot wait.  :D:D

Cutscenes in HL2. Right.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

fchopin wrote...

Give your self a cookie, it will make you feel better, or better still watch a movie.

Shogun 2: Total War actually.  You want cinematic?  That game delivers it.  ME2, DA2, S2:TW...  closer and closer.

:lol:

[Turnip Root]

That was a great episode. So great that I can almost forgive Jim Sterling for giving Vanquish a 5/10....almost.

[erynnar]

fchopin wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

They aren't... but they will be.  Half Life 2...  FEAR... ME2... DA2...  That's the future of games.  The old guard can rail and moan all they like, games are not going to go back to being part novel part spreadsheet.

Games are moving closer and closer to game/movie hybrids.  And I cannot wait.  :D:D

Give your self a cookie, it will make you feel better, or better still watch a movie.

Don't mind him...or her... *Shrugs* He/she/it is a troll who insults others for not liking what the like telling us we are whiners. Don't feed the troll.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Khayness wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

They aren't... but they will be.  Half Life 2...  FEAR... ME2... DA2...  That's the future of games.  The old guard can rail and moan all they like, games are not going to go back to being part novel part spreadsheet.

Games are moving closer and closer to game/movie hybrids.  And I cannot wait.  :D:D

Cutscenes in HL2. Right.

Sir, allow me to pwn you.  The =entire= opening section of HL2 is perfect cinema.  Also, the last sequence is a great example of the fusion.  Same with the ending of FEAR.  The game blends right into the cutscene. 

Couple years, we won't even known where the game starts and the movie starts... 

It shall be perfect.  :happy::happy::happy:

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

erynnar wrote...

Don't mind him...or her... *Shrugs* He/she/it is a troll who insults others for not liking what the like telling us we are whiners. Don't feed the troll.

B)B)  No insults, only observations.  Facts are facts.  Games are morphing into movies.  You can't change that.

[Khayness]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Sir, allow me to pwn you.

This day is my start of darkness.

When I'll be an evil overlord, all my crimes and actions can be pointed back for being insulted on the intrawebz!

HL2 isn't known for its cinematic cutscenes, rather than the first person narrative it gives.

That two G-man Talk scenes can be seen as playing in Freeman's Mind™, it doesn't get more first personish than that.

Like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, the whole game is in first person.

Not every movie is Blair Witch Project and Cloverfield out there.

Modifié par Khayness, 18 avril 2011 - 11:56 .

[fchopin]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Give your self a cookie, it will make you feel better, or better still watch a movie.

Shogun 2: Total War actually.  You want cinematic?  That game delivers it.  ME2, DA2, S2:TW...  closer and closer.

:lol:

Need a lot more streamlining to get there.
 
Bioware should only have one option for dialogue, why have 3 options. Just press the button and watch the movie character speak, no rubbish options, it's 2011 when will Bioware learn to do it right.
No customisation for all the team including Hawke, no rings, just one sword to update with levels.
 
No more rubbish exploration, that is for kids, just give us the action please.

[John Epler]

He's right - games aren't movies. Games allow for agency and interaction that's simply not possible in a film medium.

However, that's not to say that games can't take some cues from film. Games are a primarily visual medium - 'show, don't tell' is one of the first lessons that any writer learns. Applied to games, if you can convey a particular message visually rather than textually, you can allow for a tighter experience.

Of course, it's a balancing act and, sometimes, it goes too far. Interactivity is always important to bear in mind, and it does occasionally happen that choice is taken away from the player because it's mistakenly determined that it's an acceptable trade off - a choice might be viewed as meaningless, when in reality some players really would like agency at that particular moment.

I think bringing games towards a more cinematic style visually while still maintaining the interactivity and agency that's a key (some might say -the- key) aspect of games is going to be one of the big challenges of the next five or six years. It's not easy.

[theelementslayer]

They are morphing into better then movies. Because they have much more time then a movie to convery a storyline (50 hrs opposed to 2) even say 3/4 of that is gameplay that still is 12.5 hrs of story. Also it allows you to choose your path, a film is a very very linear story. The director has a story, he tells it to you, you watch it. The gaming industry allows the user to have input, how do I get to this next part of the story, who do I want to be with me, how do I want to show myself to the world, ect, ect.

just a thought.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Khayness wrote...

This day is my start of darkness.

When I'll be an evil overlord, all my crimes and actions can be pointed back for being insulted on the intrawebz!

HL2 isn't known for its cutscenes, rather than the first person narrative it gives.

That two G-man Talk scenes can be seen as playing in Freeman's Mind™, it doesn't get more first personish than that.

First, you have very thin skin if you saw that as an insult.  :blush:  Relax!

Second, you're very hung up on cutscenese, read the post you replied to again.  ^_^

[Khayness]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

First, you have very thin skin if you saw that as an insult.  :blush:  Relax!

Second, you're very hung up on cutscenese, read the post you replied to again.  ^_^

Sarcasm :innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:

HL 2 is still a bad example when there are games out there like Farenheit and Heavy Rain.

Modifié par Khayness, 19 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[Maverick827]

People take this guy seriously? I agree with him that games aren't inferior to movies just as movies aren't inferior to novels, but his ego is massive (no pun intended).

I think anyone who believes otherwise - anyone who believes that these mediums can be ordered by quality and not viewed as separate entities with different strengths and weaknesses - is not really worth taking seriously and, as such, ignoring them - not ranting about them - is what makes a "journalist" truly great (again, no pun intended).

[Turnip Root]

Jim Sterling is a bit of a troll but he has a lot of good points and it's obvious he's really passionate about games.

You guys should check out his review for Deadly Premonition, funniest thing I have ever read. Especially if you're actually played the game.

[Chaos-fusion]

Personally, I'd prefer games find their own way of telling stories and stirring emotion than to try and make it a film. Interactivity, and the way a game story can branch appeal far more to me than cinematic presentation - a film is always going to do that better.

However, games are turning into films, definately. The big FPS releases are getting more linear and closer to two hours long each year.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 19 avril 2011 - 12:23 .