74 réponses à ce sujet

[droid88]

Hi All:  I was checking my web sites when I saw this on http://www.mmorpg.co...or-Lose-It.html

It about Chinese MMO company to ban all male players who choose to play female avatars lol.  It a good read.

[BluesMan1956]

There is something to be said for keeping government out of the private sector, huh? ARE YOU LISTENING PRESIDENT OBAMA?

[Murder Knife]

That's... I dont know where to... Why?

[Dennis Carpenter]

ROTFLMAO XD hahahah ...oh stop your killin me..........hahahah once a jackass always a jackass.....So if girls send full frontal nudity web cam shots does that constitute pornography under chinese internet regs...........??????? Or maybe thy're just looking for some free soft porn. XD

[Elvhen Veluthil]

@BluesMan1956

Comparing the Chinese decision to ban male players with the efforts to provide medical cover to all the people, if that's what you meean, isn't exactly the same. I am from Europe, and around here demonstrating against the right that all people should at least have medical cover seems at least barbaric. Private sector will always go after profit, while the state can at least try to go for the well-being of the citizens. Leaving the economy in private hands without any kind of control didn't worked exactly as they say it would, and the economical crisis was the outcome.

Modifié par Elvhen Veluthil, 30 octobre 2009 - 03:24 .

[Dennis Carpenter]

@BluesMan1956 and also Elvhen Veluthil..........Though i value your right to speak freely please stay on topic......save the politics for a different forum.....Thank You.



BTW .... Can you prove who you are ???????????

[hzss12]

Funny.

[Adamski_707]

Thats just ever so slightly weird and epic fail.

[NewYears1978]

That is quite odd...although I remember that time I was hitting on a girl that was a guy...don't remind me.



(No that didn't really happen..but I bet it does happen..although I don't think that's what this article is about anyways)

[BluesMan1956]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

@BluesMan1956 and also Elvhen Veluthil..........Though i value your right to speak freely please stay on topic......save the politics for a different forum.....Thank You.

BTW .... Can you prove who you are ???????????

I thought the topic was the imposition of behavior on those who would prefer to have the LIBERTY to do whatsoever they please instead of having it dictated from above.  Kind of cramps the style of role playing whether in a game or in real life.

Why?  Do I NEED to prove who I am?  As a free individual who has the LIBERTY to do whatever I choose, I choose not to.

[Dennis Carpenter]

@BluesMan.........BTW ... can you prove who you are Was in reference to the Link content not for you to actually prove who you are. Like your second post better than you first though. Nicely phrased.

[BluesMan1956]

Dennis Carpenter wrote...

@BluesMan.........BTW ... can you prove who you are Was in reference to the Link content not for you to actually prove who you are. Like your second post better than you first though. Nicely phrased.

In any case, I think this topic is a good life lesson, especially for those with the noble but altruistic and unrealistic belief that the state knows what's best for the individual, REGARDLESS of the subject.  The statist ultimately wants to CONTROL the individual, not liberate them.  That is what this subject is about. Controlling individual behavior.  And if you will do some research, you will find that this campaign comes directly from the Chinese government.

[Antiuna]

It is a company trying to impose the test, not the government. Did someone miss that? -.^

So while you may enjoy your argument, its not related to this topic. Start a new thread, if you so desire.



On the article - I laughed a little inside. Imposing that sort of requirement is probably like shooting yourself in the face for a gaming company. Half the dudes I know play female toons, imagine the money loss! Plus all the chicks who have the dignity to not show their boobies on a webcam.

[Ninjaphrog]

That is just rediculous....

So if I lived in China, I'd be considered a cyber criminal, considering almost every character I make in MMOs are females?

I'd like to ask China this question:

How is it wrong for a guy to make a girl character, so that they look at a girls ass all day?
Isn't it MORE wrong for a guy to make a guy character and stare at his ass all day?

Or are you just control freakshows with an inner insecurity with homosexuality?

Seriously, and I'm serious here...if it really made you gay(in real life too) to make a female character in a game...then I'd seriously be so flaming gay that people could spot the aura a mile away.

Funny that I'm married....

That's really the limit of time I'll spend on writing a message to a bull crap company like that.

**** you narrowminded insecure homosexuals, ****, you , all

[BluesMan1956]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

That is just rediculous....

So if I lived in China, I'd be considered a cyber criminal, considering almost every character I make in MMOs are females?

I'd like to ask China this question:

How is it wrong for a guy to make a girl character, so that they look at a girls ass all day?
Isn't it MORE wrong for a guy to make a guy character and stare at his ass all day?

Or are you just control freakshows with an inner insecurity with homosexuality?

Seriously, and I'm serious here...if it really made you gay(in real life too) to make a female character in a game...then I'd seriously be so flaming gay that people could spot the aura a mile away.

Funny that I'm married....

That's really the limit of time I'll spend on writing a message to a bull crap company like that.

**** you narrowminded insecure homosexuals, ****, you , all

Exactly my point.  You should be free to play your character however you choose.    It may seem funny, but this level of oppressive state meddling in individual affairs is actually very sad.

It is not the COMPANY, but the Chinese government that has taken on this campaign. http://www.massively...piritual-opium/ The companies have little say in whether to comply with the mandates of the state.

Modifié par BluesMan1956, 30 octobre 2009 - 05:23 .

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

Exactly my point.  You should be free to play your character however you choose.    It may seem funny, but this level of oppressive state meddling in individual affairs is actually very sad.

It is not the COMPANY, but the Chinese government that has taken on this campaign. http://www.massively...piritual-opium/ The companies have little say in whether to comply with the mandates of the state.

You are conflating two separate issues here though. First article is on the actions of a particular Chinese MMO company with specific controls, however ill-advised, on sex/gender representations of characters in their products; and the second is on the Chinese government's stance on MMOs - but in terms of their impact on society, not concerns about how players play out their characters. Your paragraph gives the impression that the Chinese government has "taken on the campaign" TO dictate sex/gender representation of characters in games, when, in the absence of proof, it has not.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 30 octobre 2009 - 05:43 .

[BluesMan1956]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

BluesMan1956 wrote...

Exactly my point.  You should be free to play your character however you choose.    It may seem funny, but this level of oppressive state meddling in individual affairs is actually very sad.

It is not the COMPANY, but the Chinese government that has taken on this campaign. http://www.massively...piritual-opium/ The companies have little say in whether to comply with the mandates of the state.

You are conflating two separate issues here though. First article is on the actions of a particular Chinese MMO company with specific controls, however ill-advised, on sex/gender representations of characters in their products; and the second is on the Chinese government's stance on MMOs - but in terms of its impact on society, not concerns about how players play out their characters. Your paragraph gives the impression that the Chinese government has "taken on the campaign" TO dictate sex/gender representation of characters in games, when, in the absence of proof, it has not.

And you are missing my point that this is not about a game, this is about personal liberty.   Whether it's the gamers or the oppressed Falun Gong religion, it is about violation of civil and human liberties.  I know that many Chinese coorporations are owned by the state or the princlings.  I cannot say whether or not this particular company does, but it seems to be inclined to the same oppressive mindset.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

And you are missing my point that this is not about a game, this is about personal liberty.   Whether it's the gamers or the oppressed Falun Gong religion, it is about violation of civil and human liberties.  I know that many Chinese coorporations are owned by the state or the princlings.  I cannot say whether or not this particular company does, but it seems to be inclined to the same oppressive mindset.

Correlation is not concrete evidence. At this point you are merely putting forth a hypothesis of guesswork and claiming it to be fact. Find proof that this particular company IS owned by the the state or actually patterned their decision after an actual state decree, and I will agree with your argument.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 30 octobre 2009 - 05:58 .

[BluesMan1956]

Amberyl Ravenclaw wrote...

BluesMan1956 wrote...

And you are missing my point that this is not about a game, this is about personal liberty.   Whether it's the gamers or the oppressed Falun Gong religion, it is about violation of civil and human liberties.  I know that many Chinese coorporations are owned by the state or the princlings.  I cannot say whether or not this particular company does, but it seems to be inclined to the same oppressive mindset.

Correlation is not concrete evidence. At this point you are merely putting forth a hypothesis of guesswork and claiming it to be fact. Find proof that this particular company IS owned by the the state, and I will agree with your argument.

Can't you just agree that infringement of personal liberties is bad? 

[invert180]

Look, government control in certain areas is bad (e.g. sexuality, women's right to choose, censorship). But government control in other areas is good (e.g. police, firefighting, military, healthcare). You're not going to get any self-respecting progressive to state it any other way. Merely stating that government should stay out of the private sector is so meaningless.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

Can't you just agree that infringement of personal liberties is bad? 

The fact is that the particular context / example / link with which you are trying to build your argument is faulty. In this case I am not disputing whether infringement of personal liberties is bad; I am simply pointing out the incongruity of the two different contexts which you are attempting to unite, in your quest to prove a point.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 30 octobre 2009 - 06:07 .

[Maria Caliban]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

Can't you just agree that infringement of personal liberties is bad?

Can't you just not derail the topic?

Chinese business makes all players of female toons send in pictures. Nothing to do with the government or infringement of personal liberties.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 30 octobre 2009 - 06:11 .

[Greyward]

That depends on what liberty is being taken. You know whats real funny about your argument? In the States, this is probably illegal. It would be seen as discrimination, and the govenrment/courts would probably rule that this company can't follow a policy of gender bias. So in fact, it would be govenrment regulation acting to curtail the freedoms of a private business entity...and therefore protecting the "personal liberties" of the individual at the expense of the "personal liberties" of the Company's CEO to do what he wants with his product. Ironic eh? Not so black-and-white, is it?

On Topic: 
Weird and funny. Are they really just trying to stop the guys hitting on a guy with a female toon problem? As a business policy? I can't see it helping with sales; the MMO market is full of alternatives. Maybe they are looking for some sort of niche? I can't imagine a girl wanting to play on a server filled with boys/men who are all very well aware that she actually IS a girl...and in the minority. Weird, weird, weird.  Is it some kind of sexual MMO? I could definitely see it as a problem if people ended up having some kind of virtual sex with the wrong gender, but if this is your typical  Tolkienesque High Fantasy game, this is absurd.

Modifié par Greyward, 30 octobre 2009 - 06:19 .

[BluesMan1956]

invert180 wrote...

Look, government control in certain areas is bad (e.g. sexuality, women's right to choose, censorship). But government control in other areas is good (e.g. police, firefighting, military, healthcare). You're not going to get any self-respecting progressive to state it any other way. Merely stating that government should stay out of the private sector is so meaningless.

I thought we weren't discussing that.  I thought we were talking about whether or not our actions in a game (or in any other aspect of personal life) should be dictated from above.   That is what this is about.  if the government meddles in commercial industry, they are meddling in the lives of individuals.  This notion that the government is good and knows what's better for us than we do sickens me.  The whole idea that someone in my nations capital knows who should make how much money better than the marketplace is an affront to liberty.

There is a serious assault on freedom and personal liberty going on in my country.  Please forgive me if I am extremely sensitive to it.

[invert180]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

invert180 wrote...

Look, government control in certain areas is bad (e.g. sexuality, women's right to choose, censorship). But government control in other areas is good (e.g. police, firefighting, military, healthcare). You're not going to get any self-respecting progressive to state it any other way. Merely stating that government should stay out of the private sector is so meaningless.

I thought we weren't discussing that.  I thought we were talking about whether or not our actions in a game (or in any other aspect of personal life) should be dictated from above.   That is what this is about.  if the government meddles in commercial industry, they are meddling in the lives of individuals.  This notion that the government is good and knows what's better for us than we do sickens me.  The whole idea that someone in my nations capital knows who should make how much money better than the marketplace is an affront to liberty.

There is a serious assault on freedom and personal liberty going on in my country.  Please forgive me if I am extremely sensitive to it.

Well, as you said, this is about personal liberty.  I don't think anybody here is against it in the least, myself included.  But you want to paint all of this in such a broad brush.  Do you enjoy the privilege of having a police force?  How about a firefighting force?  How about a military force?  They're all run by the government.  I don't know about you, but I'd hate to haggle with a bunch of different firefighters over how much I should pay for them to save my house.

Lets be realistic here.  Not everything the government does is inherently bad, just as not everything the government does is inherently good.  There is a time and place for everything.  We can argue about specifics if you'd like, but going off about how we should fear the "boogeyman government" in general is useless.

What personal liberties are being taken away by your government anyway?  From what I see, the US is doing just fine.

Modifié par invert180, 30 octobre 2009 - 06:27 .