18 réponses à ce sujet

[Shina777]

Hi there I am playing the game in nightmare mode mostly because I can't get friendlyfire in lower modes and hard mode is fairly easy.
But In nightmare mode blows everything out of proportion :
The never ending poping of adds (or parachuting you can actually see them coming down the heavens when not poping 2 foot tall dudes from 10 inch tall bushes) coming out in riddiculous numbers, out of the blue on my side 3 reluctant indisciplined guys and an Aveline with no decent aggro / threat generation ( taunts seems to be pointless most enemy just press on not caring, she'd get more results showing her bosom ).
never ending arrows / knockdown interruptions (arrows are the worst after interruption you have a weird 1 sec where you caracters wont moove desptite being back to normal posture) making very hard to achieve any form of positioning effecient strategy.
30 sec cooldown potion and one heal with 1 healing spell with 40 sec cooldown.
your group is often scattered and butchered.

All this has lead me to move the fights to prior secured areas of the map preferably with a corner to condensate that rabbid football team and force archers to come melee range / and get all clustered for AOE damages and Crowd controls.
And in the same time avoiding annoying constant repops on the actual very spot of an already challenging fight,
Kill the adds kill the lieutenant, then I go and kill the additional foes on the encounter spot. 

And yes I sure does feel like lame and yes it still provides more challenge than in hard mode.

2 problems to this :
-Little houses with 2 enemies per square inch, with no terrain nowhere to draw my enemis to. ( possible fights but insanly difficult, you need luck too)
-Rogue bosses....
how do I deal with rogue bosses ? they seem immune to most crowd control or at least have an extremely high
resistance to such spells and when they end up alone (you've killed all adds) they suddenly go bat-crap crazy backstabing for 200 damage every 10 sec on level 8  190 hp max, cloth and leather caracters thus one shotting them, making the very concept of healing spells and potions useless since I need to have a break between 100 and 0% HP to use them.
The only caracter who survives 2 is aveline (tank, plate, defender template, normal).
I've tried paralysing glyth behind my caracters but it's seem it triggers (and usually fails) only after he kills one of my caracters.
So it would take roughly 30 sec to a full team to bring him to 20%, HP then he usually drinks a heath potion despites rushes / mind blasts / freezing spells (he does this twice doesn't seem affected or even aware of the notion of cooldown). but on the other hand my party has at most 50 sec life expectancy with dps falling drastically every 10 to 12 seconds due to secondary effects of death, because of insane backstabbing.

Does anyone have an Idea not to trigger this sort of god mod ?

Modifié par Shina777, 18 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[Sabotin]

Well nightmare is nightmare, you need to prepare accordingly, including builds and tactics. Lots of threads arround here for both.

Healing is a secondary help, never rely on it. If you see that you can't keep up with enemy spawns you're doing something wrong, either lack of cc or lack of firepower. Also worth of not is that additional waves spawn when a certain number of enemies is dead or certain time elapsed. It's not always good to keep the Lt. rank enemies up, because if each wave brings one or two they start piling up, which can be dangerous.

Rogues seeemingly got a boost in 1.02, if I let one unchecked it's much more likely someone will get 1hit (250+ dmg) and often they dont even hide before doing ther backstabs, just come close to you and teleport to your back, stabbing away happily. And often hide, stab and hide instantly again. Thankfully there's many ways of disabling/dealing with them. If you have a mage, petrify/horror/winter's grasp/crushing prison work nice for stopping them in their tracks. Misdirection hex is also good, the backstabs are apparently critical hits, so that lowers the damage (and upgraded can slow them to a crawl). Another way is knockdowns, either via various spells or with fighters and their skills. Also, they're fairly vulnerable to stun. My Varric was doing it pretty often even with the 1% chance from harmony.
If it goes bad and he hides, you can still try reveal him with some aoe attack (though apparently this doesnt work for first few seconds after he hides unless the aoe kills him). Or just run away and he'll show himself eventually.

But yeah when it comes down to it you need damage. Lots.

[Shina777]

Killing isn't so much an issue but sustaining heavy damage is

Modifié par Shina777, 18 avril 2011 - 11:51 .

[Sabotin]

Yeah, it's tied together. You need to reach a treshold where you can hit hard enough to not give them a chance to retaliate, i.e. you can kill them while they are disabled.

[Shina777]

If I managed to get aveline to maintain aggro on most melee, must have a threat generation problem
once my mage or my rogue gets rapped or it's a slow but certain death for the party. Unless Tanking is as useless as healing?

[Apathy1989]

Shina777 wrote...

If I managed to get aveline to maintain aggro on most melee, must have a threat generation problem
once my mage or my rogue gets rapped or it's a slow but certain death for the party. Unless Tanking is as useless as healing?

Alot of people just use 2H warriors such as fenris to beat up people before they have an issue. This idea comes back to bite you in the ass when you face the rock wraith though, since 2H get knocked down constantly by it.

Unless I was playing a dw rogue, I tend to use fenris as a vanguard. Huge damage and constant staggering for merrill to complete combos. Only problems you should ever have is if you get unlucky and 2 rogues backstab at same time. Otherwise, healing and clever use of barrier should keep you going.

[mr_afk]

You probs don't want to rely on a fully defensive tank especially early game (where constitution will be still quite low). A tank can only withstand a few assassin stabs and if you're relying only on three people for dps your damage output will be decreased. Go for the more dps tank/warrior where aggro is drawn simply by rushing around damaging enough people.

In order to kill all those cheeky rogues who backflip in your face you'll want to get practiced in the art of maintaining CC while gang bashing that exposed rogue/assassin. Basically the spells we're talking about are horror and maybe glyph of paralysis - where you cast another CC as the first wears off, leaving no time for it to steal your potions. Cold spells are also useful but if you're unlucky you'll just see them backflip in slow motion. By focus firing your party on exposed assassins you'll hopefully be able to kill them in one or two goes, such that they can't maintain the cycle of stealthing, stealing potions and killing one-shotting party members.

The only other thing to consider is getting some CCC's in on them. It's pretty tough to lay down enough dps on them to kill them fast enough so staggers followed by chain lightning as well as brittles followed by mighty blows help alot.

[Shina777]

thanks alot gives me new angles, basically I must focus on dishing up insane damage rather than relly on damage mitigation finesse tactics. Or rape rogues while chain CC'd =)

[Adokat]

The quicker enemies die, the less damage they'll do to you, or; the best defense is a good offense. With Hawke tanking, I had a smooth run through Nightmare without taking any defensive talents. With Aveline, you'd probably still want to get her knockdown and damage resist talents in her personal tree.

[Lumikki]

I play also at the moment nightmare and I have to say it's not really fun.

Problem isn't really that some situation are hard, more like there isn't really any better tactics than run away or around. I sometimes get some elite behind my range attacker, so what I do? I run around in circle when this elite try to catch me while other companions auto nuke the elite as much they can. It's pointless way to do combat, but it's seem to work to most high health elites.

I think the problem is that hole difficulty is just build very high health, not by making enemies do something smarter. Also lack of options for player doesn't make it any better. You can't really plan anything or lay trap or... Only way to plan anything is know the battle before it even happens as where the waves are comming and what enemies. This can only be arrived by replaying same battles..

Like sayed before. Best defence is?

1. Best offense
2. Run away

I have basicly Aveline as tank and she is doing well. How ever, with range attacker to rest, two mage and archer I need to babysit they aggro. Meaning sometimes it's best not to attack at all for while and get Aveline to take aggro. Then kill them one by one. Because worst situation is that they come after your rangers. Also I have notice that AoE's isn't allways best way to solve situations, if your AoE's aren't powerfull enough to kill the enemies. More like coordinated attacts one by one kill.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 avril 2011 - 03:21 .

[Nasabe]

Lumikki wrote...

I play also at the moment nightmare and I have to say it's not really fun.

Problem isn't really that some situation are hard, more like there isn't really any better tactics than run away or around. I sometimes get some elite behind my range attacker, so what I do? I run around in circle when this elite try to catch me while other companions auto nuke the elite as much they can. It's pointless way to do combat, but it's seem to work to most high health elites.

I think the problem is that hole difficulty is just build very high health, not by making enemies do something smarter. Also lack of options for player doesn't make it any better. You can't really plan anything or lay trap or... Only way to plan anything is know the battle before it even happens as where the waves are comming and what enemies. This can only be arrived by replaying same battles..

Like sayed before. Best defence is?

1. Best offense
2. Run away

I do agree to some extent.

But again Aveline can tank anything on nightmare if built correctly, and aggro isn't a problem since you can just spend two talent points with any rogue to armstice and goad.

I agree with the tactical gameplay being viable only when you know which enemies you are going to encounter but then again anyone who played Baldurs Gate series (Gangaxx fight anyone?), Dao, plancescape torment etc. on difficult settings knows the same is true about them as well.

- I remember laying about a gazillion traps before Gangaxx spawned in BG2 =) ; that fight was ridiculous the first time I ran into it. -

Kiting works true, but you do not have to. You have the tools to tank any enemy. Granted some bosses in DA2 have ridiculous health pools, they make me think I'm raiding in Naxxramas in WoW. Tends to get boring. With that in mind I think the only two fights which were outright poorly designed for nightmare are the prologue ogre and afterwards.. And the templar bounty quest on act II sundermount (three rage demons, one desire, one pride abomination, one mage and a whole lot of shades). Other fights are all doable even if some take a long freaking time.

My problem with nightmare would be the ridiculous friendly fire, how is Anders' winter's grasp does more damage to Aveline then any major attack from a boss? How can Fenris one-shot Aveline with his spirit blast but cant do half as much to any normal mob? There is some serious mistake there imo, do they count as level1 against friendly fire?

Other than Friendly Fire and some health pools most (if not all) good rpgs require you to know the battle and the tools to overcome it before you encounter it. So that's fair imo. After all it shouldnt be called nightmare if you can beat it in a single try.

Modifié par Nasabe, 19 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[Darqion]

I still fail to see how some people tank certain bosses with Aveline when all they got to aid her are heal, a potion and perhaps a barrier. when i try that vs certain bosses they make me spend the pot and heal and the boss is then at 90% hp and Aveline is at 30% shortly after

[Lumikki]

What bosses agaist Aveline?

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[Nasabe]

Darqion wrote...

I still fail to see how some people tank certain bosses with Aveline when all they got to aid her are heal, a potion and perhaps a barrier. when i try that vs certain bosses they make me spend the pot and heal and the boss is then at 90% hp and Aveline is at 30% shortly after

Aveline can have 50% damage reduction without any armor, jewelery or immovable talent activated.

Add runes, defense enhancements, glancing blows, immovable to the pot. Also don't forget that you can aid her by Petrify/Horror/Paralysis.

Oh and also she is immune to knockdowns and stuns.. Revenants and Dragons cannot take any advantage of those against her.

If there was ever a character worthy of being called a tank, it's Aveline =)

[naughty99]

Shina777 wrote...

Hi there I am playing the game in nightmare mode mostly because I can't get friendlyfire in lower modes and hard mode is fairly easy.
But In nightmare mode blows everything out of proportion :
The never ending poping of adds (or parachuting you can actually see them coming down the heavens when not poping 2 foot tall dudes from 10 inch tall bushes) coming out in riddiculous numbers, out of the blue on my side 3 reluctant indisciplined guys and an Aveline with no decent aggro / threat generation ( taunts seems to be pointless most enemy just press on not caring, she'd get more results showing her bosom ).
never ending arrows / knockdown interruptions (arrows are the worst after interruption you have a weird 1 sec where you caracters wont moove desptite being back to normal posture) making very hard to achieve any form of positioning effecient strategy.
30 sec cooldown potion and one heal with 1 healing spell with 40 sec cooldown.
your group is often scattered and butchered.

All this has lead me to move the fights to prior secured areas of the map preferably with a corner to condensate that rabbid football team and force archers to come melee range / and get all clustered for AOE damages and Crowd controls.
And in the same time avoiding annoying constant repops on the actual very spot of an already challenging fight,
Kill the adds kill the lieutenant, then I go and kill the additional foes on the encounter spot. 

And yes I sure does feel like lame and yes it still provides more challenge than in hard mode.

2 problems to this :
-Little houses with 2 enemies per square inch, with no terrain nowhere to draw my enemis to. ( possible fights but insanly difficult, you need luck too)
-Rogue bosses....
how do I deal with rogue bosses ? they seem immune to most crowd control or at least have an extremely high
resistance to such spells and when they end up alone (you've killed all adds) they suddenly go bat-crap crazy backstabing for 200 damage every 10 sec on level 8  190 hp max, cloth and leather caracters thus one shotting them, making the very concept of healing spells and potions useless since I need to have a break between 100 and 0% HP to use them.
The only caracter who survives 2 is aveline (tank, plate, defender template, normal).
I've tried paralysing glyth behind my caracters but it's seem it triggers (and usually fails) only after he kills one of my caracters.
So it would take roughly 30 sec to a full team to bring him to 20%, HP then he usually drinks a heath potion despites rushes / mind blasts / freezing spells (he does this twice doesn't seem affected or even aware of the notion of cooldown). but on the other hand my party has at most 50 sec life expectancy with dps falling drastically every 10 to 12 seconds due to secondary effects of death, because of insane backstabbing.

Does anyone have an Idea not to trigger this sort of god mod ?

There is a bit of a learning curve. After a bit of experience, you will definitely improve. It also helps to read up on some of the excellent guides and posts on this forum, as well as a few youtube tutorials.

My first NM playthrough it was taking me several hours to beat the demo area at the beginning of the game. I got so frustrated that I dialed the difficulty down to hard or I feared I would never make it to Kirkwall. 

I still die frequently and sometimes I run into very tough battles, but I have certainly improved a great deal with better strategies for crowd control and party coordination. I started a second playthrough to test Patch 1.02 and I find that I'm getting through some of the same battles in a shorter period of time, dying slightly less frequently.

Personally, I love the feeling of finally beating a really tough boss (or gang of rogues) that was very challenging. It's a lot more satisfying than the toughest Nightmare battles in DAO, where you could just spam cheap healing potions to get through anything.

[Shina777]

Been using Fenris 2 hand as a tank he actually obliterates most of normal foes on a whirlwind + spirit aoe.
Healing with potions only is nearly sufficient I still have a 2 stance Anders in case. use cc and corners on archers works fine now

Modifié par Shina777, 23 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[GodLikeDevil]

Focused Fire is your friend. As a general rule with my DW Rogue, Nightmare fights devolve upon prioritizing threats, and eliminating them accordingly. Sometimes you just need to clear the chumps that pop-up before you go for the lieutenant types. Sometimes it is the other way around. Focus firing dramatically decreases the time you need to spend on fights. In Nightmare, it is kill or be killed.

Also, take advantage of cross-class combos. And do not hesitate to kite or use choke points. But keep in mind friendly-fire. More often than not, my frustration in Nightmare comes not from the enemies but allies or Hawke dying due to friendly fire.

[kcman5]

Shina777 wrote...

thanks alot gives me new angles, basically I must focus on dishing up insane damage rather than relly on damage mitigation finesse tactics. Or rape rogues while chain CC'd =)

 Best way to deal with the situation, is have your tank stay on the Lt or big bad boy.. Have a 2 handed warrior charge into the rogue via scythe and bash away. Have the rest of the group focus fire him as well. If the assassin disappears before you kill him, have the warrior run over to the tank and have it taunt. AOE spells and abilities will work on stealthed targets regardless.

Modifié par kcman5, 23 avril 2011 - 04:49 .

[Shina777]

Thanks for all your advice, very kind of you all