10 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimling]

(Tried PM'ing this but the little java box keeps disappearing, plus I thought some of the information may be beneficial to the community as a whole)

First I would like to thank SuicidalBaby for the factual data he provides.  I for one greatly appreciate the time and due diligence he puts into making sure his information is correct and not basing it upon supposition.  A lot of what I read here is based off how people believe something should work or how they mistakenly perceive it to.

That being said, I'm looking for a bit of advice on character builds as well as corresponding tactics.  A lot of what I've done thus far has been based off the BM Compendium.  Though not playing a BM I've altered it to suit my party as well as personal tastes.  Should be noted I'm playing on the PS3

I'm currently playing Nightmare and am near the end of Act 1.  I am level 8 playing a S&S Hawke(Hate Aveline).

Hawke
Desdemon's Blade with 2 frost runes
Lion of Orlais with 2 RoF
25 Str
13 Will
21 Con
http://biowarefans.c...=NaN#wHJbzkRmcY

Really have no idea what abilities to take from this point on.  Suggestions on DPS S&S tank for Nightmare? 

Not really using tactics as I'm controlling him.  Almost never use Shield Defense.  Think I used it on the dragon at the end of the Bone Pit.  Otherwise I spam X and use taunt to keep mobs on me.  Try and set up multiple mobs for shield bash stagger+CL spam.  Use Pommel Strike the same way but as it's only 1 target think those 2 ability points may be spend better elsewhere.  I debated an upgraded tremor for aoe 40% stagger.  Also have no idea what specialization is best.  Not crazy about the berzerk builds I've seen for S*S.  I really like the passive in templar but take a lot of points to get to.  Thoughts?

Varric
21 Dex
20 Cunning
15 Will
12 Con
http://biowarefans.c...=NaN#8ILnjtE1zc

1. Self Health <50 ->Use health potion
2. Slef stamina < 10 ->Stamina draught
3. Self being attacked by melee ->Use current con for next tactic
4. Anders any ->back to back
5. Stamina <25 ->Deactivate precision
6. Self any ->Activate Precision
7. Enemy target of hawke ->Rhyming Triplet
8. Enemy target of Hawke ->Kickback (plan to change this to staggered once upgraded)
Enemy target of hawke ->Attack

I *think* his tactics are working correctly.  Not sure about the activate/deactivation of precision.  Ideally I want to keep it up unless stamina starved then deactivate it.  Not sure if backtoback is working.  Haven't seen it as combat is usually hectic.

I do have large aggro issues.  I'm really unhappy goad/Armistice don't work on PS3 or I'd be using them.  Also not crazy about 4 points in Specialist for what *seems* like little payoff.  Also very unhappy with lack of CCC with Varric.  Really thinking I need to rebulid him to suit my party.

Anders
Staff of Parthalion
28 Magic (Took to 28 based off recommendation in BM Compendium but now I wonder why so high)
20 Will
11 Con

http://biowarefans.c...g=NaN#1SihtHqWg
1. Ally health<50 -> Heal
2. Enemy staggered -> CL
3. Enemy attacking varric -> Glyph of paralysis
4. Enemy attacking Merril -> Glyph of paralysis
5. Self any -> Rock armor
6. Self mana < 75 ->activate elemental weapon
7. Self mana <75 -> Activate heroic aura
8. Enemy target of hawke -> attack
9. Enemy at least 1 alive -> Skip tactics
10. Self any -> deactivate elemental weapons
11. Self any -> Deactivate heroic aura

I think he is working well.  Suggestions on tactics?  I plan on getting haste.  I also plan on getting Panacea and Aid Allies and trying to set it up like so.

1. ally: hp <50%: Heal
2. ally: hp <50%: jump to tactic 13
3. self: any: deactivate: Panacea

10. self: at least 1 enemy is alive: skip tactics
11. self: any: deactivate: Elemental Weapons
12. self: any: deactivate: Heroic Aura - actual jump destination
13. ally: hp: <50%: activate: Panacea
14. ally: hp: <50%: activate; Aid Allies
Any way to add in Regroup?

Not sure if that would work, based off your Advanced Tactics Lesson #2.  Overall Panacea sucks, but with the advanced tactics and knowing that jump to tactic is actually x-1 I am wondering if it's worth taking advantage of.

Merril (This is where I'm having the most trouble)
The Magister's Scythe
25 Magic
13 Will
20 Con

http://biowarefans.c...lder/?dmg=NaN#7
1. Self health < 50 -> Deactivate Blood of the First
2. Self heatlh < 25 -> Use health potion
3. Self mana <50 -> Activate Blood of the First

Idea here is to let her use mana at first then switch to blood magic.  Just got blood of the first and haven't had time to play with this to see if its working properly.

4. Enemy elite of higher -> Hex of Torment
I never see her casting hex of torment.   Surely I've fought elites by now(don't know how to tell mob ranks)
Maybe I need another condition to be utilizing this spell better

5. Enemy staggered -> CL (yummy goodness)
6. Enemy using melee attack -> Misdirection Hex (also not seeing this one cast, but maybe it's just not flashy)
7. Enemy attacking Anders -> Horror
8. Enemy attacking varric -> Horror
9. Enemy attacking merrl -> Horror
10. Self any activate rock armor
11. Enemy target of hawke -> Attack

Overall not happy with my Merril build/tactics.  I've thought about dropping the hexes and going arcane instead.  Which would free Anders up from having to do EW and could get to crushing prison(also something I planned on doing with Anders)  Really need Merrill suggestions for my party.

General Questions;
1) Friendship/Rivalry abilities, do they require an ability point to learn? Once you obtain them if your status changes do you lose them?  If you keep them can you get both abilities?
2) Why do you recommend Ander's Magic so highly over willpower early on? 28 then 37 respectively, assume this is for a staff later in the game?
3) Am I using skip tactics right on Anders? I believe if the condition is met it skips ALL tactics below that point

Modifié par Grimling, 18 avril 2011 - 11:56 .

[Grimling]

Edited the above to include link to Hawke's current build.

[SuicidalBaby]

1st off, sorry that took 4 tries, that had to suck
2nd ps3 browser blows. i cant use/view that builder

gonna let this stew for a bit, so bare with me.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 19 avril 2011 - 12:12 .

[Grimling]

Np man.  I too hate the PS3 browser.  Let me help

Hawke
Weapon & Shield

Shield Defense
Shield Bash with Pummel Upgrade
Scatter
Perception
Safeguard

Warmonger

Pommel Strike with Pommel Blow upgrade
Taunt

No specialization selected

Varric
Specialist

Speed
Precision
Power
Harmony

Scoundrel

Blindside
Back to Back

Marksman

Rhyming Triplet
Kickback
Plan is to Bianca's Song at 9, save 10, Nameless Grace 11, Backlash/Well Oiled at 12

Anders
Primal

Rock Armor
Chain Lightning with Chain reaction upgrade

Arcane

Elemental Weapons

Creation

Glyph of Paralysis
Heal
Heroic Aura with Valiant Aura upgrade

Merril
Primal

Rock Armor
Chain Lightning with Chain reaction Upgrade

Entropy

Hex of Torment
Horror with Despair Upgrade
Misdirection hex

Dalish Pariah

Blood of the First

[SuicidalBaby]

Hawke
Desdemon's Blade with 2 frost runes
Lion of Orlais with 2 RoF
25 Str
13 Will
21 Con

Really have no idea what abilities to take from this point on.  Suggestions on DPS S&S tank for Nightmare? 

I can't truly speak with knowledge about the direction of a warrior build.
However, these guides can:
S&S Experiment: Early Elemental Setup by IN1
Berserker Vanguard - Mach-5 Massacre by Arelex

Tactics should reflect that something is very wrong as you are not controlling the PC. Apocalyptic conditions should be in your head when building your tactics for a PC warrior.
--------------------------------------------
Varric is going to be a off build till act 2, follow the compendium guide, it matches your group.

Armitice does work, the enemy will finish its current attack then move away as long as there is more than just its current targets threat on its radar. If the only threat is its target's threat when Armitice hits it will revert to nearest target, which makes it appear as if Armitice never worked.

8. Enemy target of Hawke ->Kickback :
You will find more value from this as:
enemy: attacking Anders: Kickback
For a few reasons; Anders is your only healer and should be protected as such, Stagger is better suited for CL, Hawke will stagger lots bosses and this will waste your CL casts.

stamina idea does work as you intend. you can also conserve more by turning it on after 75%, I would suggest leaving Bianca's Song on the whole time because of its power.

I see nothing wrong with this build. stay on track here.
--------------------------------------------
Anders
Staff of Parthalion
28 Magic
20 Will
11 Con

Took to 28 magic based off recommendation in BM Compendium but now I wonder why so high.
Staff of the Primal Order requires 28 magic

Glyph of Paralysis should be used on clusters of 3+. There is no threat associated with it and this way your proactive with it.

I would leave Elemental Weapons to the Blood Mage since Anders needs as much mana as possibe.

Let's be special and try this:

Build :
1. Rock Armor
2. Chain Lightning
3. Chain Reaction
4. Heal
5. Heroic Aura
6. Valiant Aura
7. Glyph of Paralysis
8. Glyph of Binding
10. Haste
11. Great Haste
12. Panacea
13. Aid Allies
End Act 1

14. Martyr*
15. Swift Justice
16. Blood of my Enemy
17. Mind Blast
18. Barrier
19. Crushing Prison
20. Paralyzing Prison

Tactics :

1. self: hp <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
2. ally: hp <50%: Heal
3. ally: hp: <50%: jump to tactic: 17
4. self: being attacked by melee: Mind Blast
5. self: any: deactivate: Panacea
6. self: hp >75%: activate: Vengeance
7. enemy: STAGGERED: Chain Lightning
8. enemy: STAGGERED: use as condition for next tactic
9. enemy: elite or higher: Crushing Prison
10. enemy: clustered with 4 enemeies: Glyph of Paralysis
11. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: Haste
12. ally: Cant Attack: Barrier
13. self: mana <50%: activate: Heroic Aura
14. self: hp >75%: Martyr
15. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: skip tactics
16. self: any: deactivate Heroic Aura - **actual jump destination**
17. ally: hp: <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
18. ally: hp: <50%: activate: Panacea
19. ally: hp: <50%: Aid Allies

Now Panacea/Aid Allies isnt really necessary here, Im just showing off. With Martyr & Swift Justice the cooldown on Heal is next to nothing and Anders is spitting fire. I could show how to use regroup but I prefer to prevent it ever being needed.
-------------------------------------------------
Merril (This is where I'm having the most trouble)
The Magister's Scythe
25 Magic
13 Will
20 Con

1. Self health: <50%: deactivate: Blood of the First
2. Self heatlh: <25%: Use health potion
3. Self mana: <50%: activate: Blood of the First

Idea here is to let her use mana at first then switch to blood magic.  Just got blood of the first and haven't had time to play with this to see if its working properly.

Use elemental staves.


Letting that sink in.....
....
....
....

Tacticly to utilize Merril's mana in Act 1 we do this:

self: hp: <50%: deactivate: Blood of the First
self: hp: <25%: Health Poultice
enemy: STAGGERED: Chain Lightning
enemy: elite or higher: Hex of Torment -- Appears as red shell over enemy
enemy: attacking Varric: Horror
enemy: attacking Anders: Misdirection Hex -- Appears as littlte swirling vapors
self: mana: <90%: activate: Elemental Weapons
self: mana: <50%: use as condition for next tactic
self: hp: >75%: activate: Blood of the First
self: at least 1 enemy is alive: skip tactics
self: any: deactivate: Blood of the First
self: any: deactivate: Elemental Weapons

Going for Death Hex early will reduce Merril's dps within reason in order to improve overall group dps when needed, as with elites or higher. She will not begin to shine untill the middle of Act 2.
-------------------------------------------------
Friendship/Rivalry abilities: do they require an ability point to learn? 
No.

Once you obtain them, if your status changes do you lose them? 
Yes.

If you keep them can you get both abilities?
No.

Why do you recommend Ander's Magic so highly over willpower early on? 28 then 37 respectively, assume this is for a staff later in the game?
28 = Staff of the Primal Order
37 is to keep attack and magic damage as well as resists to Glyph at tolerable levels while leveling.

3) Am I using skip tactics right on Anders? I believe if the condition is met it skips ALL tactics below that point
Think of skip tactics as jump to tactic 1.

Hope this helps, gl.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 19 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[SuicidalBaby]

For Regroup question:

Assume build change of Regroup for Barrier

1. self: hp <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
2. ally: hp <50%: Heal
3. ally: hp: <50%: jump to tactic: 16 - will jump even with *dead* status
4. self: being attacked by melee: Mind Blast
5. self: any: deactivate: Panacea
6. self: hp >75%: activate: Vengeance
7. enemy: STAGGERED: Chain Lightning
8. enemy: STAGGERED: use as condition for next tactic9. enemy: elite or higher: Crushing Prison
10. enemy: clustered with 4 enemeies: Glyph of Paralysis
11. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: Haste
12. self: mana <50%: activate: Heroic Aura
13. self: hp >75%: Martyr
14. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: skip tactics
15. self: any: deactivate Heroic Aura - **actual jump destination**
16. ally: hp: <50%: deactivate: Vengeance - will trigger even with *dead* status
17. ally: hp: <50%: activate: Panacea - will trigger even with *dead* status
18. ally: status: dead: Regroup
19. ally: hp: <50%: Aid Allies

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 19 avril 2011 - 06:05 .

[Grimling]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

Tactics should reflect that something is very wrong as you are not controlling the PC. Apocalyptic conditions should be in your head when building your tactics for a PC warrior.
--------------------------------------------

Not sure what you meant by that statement.  Perhaps I just am not perceiving it as you are intending it.  I don't currently have tactics set up for my PC(player controlled?) warrior.  Your statement seems to imply that a lack of tactics is reflecting something seriously wrong?

I read the Early Elemental build and seems interesting.  Doubt I'll use much of it but I may experiement with some of it.  Bravery definitely looks good.   

What sort of traditional *key* skills would you say is required for later? I'm hoping the game gets much harder because as it is things die too easily/quick on nightmare.  As someone else said the hardest part sometimes seems to be waiting on the next wave of reinforcements to spawn.

Varric is going to be a off build till act 2, follow the compendium guide, it matches your group.

Armitice does work, the enemy will finish its current attack then move away as long as there is more than just its current targets threat on its radar. If the only threat is its target's threat when Armitice hits it will revert to nearest target, which makes it appear as if Armitice never worked.

Why then the post by the devs stating Goad/Armistic are currently broken on consoles?  This is good news.  I will definitely use Armistice now.

8. Enemy target of Hawke ->Kickback :
You will find more value from this as:
enemy: attacking Anders: Kickback
For a few reasons; Anders is your only healer and should be protected as such, Stagger is better suited for CL, Hawke will stagger lots bosses and this will waste your CL casts.

Fair point, will take under advisement and see how it works.  Thank you
A note on Speed.  I see you take speed in your BM Compendium list for Varric but in your tactics there is no option to turn it on.  Oversight on your part or you manually manipulate it as the situation warrants?

--------------------------------------------
[i]Anders

Glyph of Paralysis should be used on clusters of 3+. There is no threat associated with it and this way your proactive with it.

I didn't know that but was mainly saving Glyph to keep merril/varric alive.  Knowing that Armistice works will free up Paralysis quite a bit.  Looking forward to trying this tomorrow.

I would leave Elemental Weapons to the Blood Mage since Anders needs as much mana as possibe.

Let's be special and try this:

Build :
1. Rock Armor
2. Chain Lightning
3. Chain Reaction
4. Heal
5. Heroic Aura
6. Valiant Aura
7. Glyph of Paralysis
8. Glyph of Binding
10. Haste
11. Great Haste
12. Panacea
13. Aid Allies
End Act 1

14. Martyr*
15. Swift Justice
16. Blood of my Enemy
17. Mind Blast
18. Barrier
19. Crushing Prison
20. Paralyzing Prison

Did you skip level 9? Or did an ability get lost in a cut/paste snippet?   That build is basically what I have right now minus the Elemental weapon.  Which I took on Anders to work towards Crushing Prison but can substitute that for barrier and make healing easier.

Tactics :

1. self: hp <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
2. ally: hp <50%: Heal
3. ally: hp: <50%: jump to tactic: 17
4. self: being attacked by melee: Mind Blast
5. self: any: deactivate: Panacea
6. self: hp >75%: activate: Vengeance
7. enemy: STAGGERED: Chain Lightning
8. enemy: STAGGERED: use as condition for next tactic
9. enemy: elite or higher: Crushing Prison
10. enemy: clustered with 4 enemeies: Glyph of Paralysis
11. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: Haste
12. ally: Cant Attack: Barrier
13. self: mana <50%: activate: Heroic Aura
14. self: hp >75%: Martyr
15. enemy: at least 1 enemy is alive: skip tactics
16. self: any: deactivate Heroic Aura - **actual jump destination**
17. ally: hp: <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
18. ally: hp: <50%: activate: Panacea
19. ally: hp: <50%: Aid Allies

Now Panacea/Aid Allies isnt really necessary here, Im just showing off. With Martyr & Swift Justice the cooldown on Heal is next to nothing and Anders is spitting fire. I could show how to use regroup but I prefer to prevent it ever being needed.

At 16, the actual jump destination.  Will it jump from 3 to 16 AND deactivate Heroic Aura? Then do veng/pana/aidallies or will it jump to 16 and proceed directly to 17 without fulfilling the listed criteria of 16?

-------------------------------------------------
[i]Merril (This is where I'm having the most trouble)
The Magister's Scythe
25 Magic
13 Will
20 Con


Use elemental staves.


Letting that sink in.....
....
....
....

Makes perfect sense if you're referring to EW.  But I wasn't using Merril for EW which is why she had the Magister's Scythe and Anders had the Staff of Parthalion.  Respeccing her to carry EW I'll swap their staffs.  Unless there is another reason should be using elemental staves other than elemental weapons.

Overall thank you very much.  I appreciate the time you put into looking at this.  I'll redo Varric as I was wasting a lot of points for Harmony in the Precision tree.  Hopefully this will open some CCC up.  Right now the only CCC I've ever seen is the stagger/CL one.  

[SuicidalBaby]

warrior:
it means that tactics should reflect what you want to happen if you HAVE to control another character, this should only occur in dire circumstances.

Varric:
speed is just on. the tree work untill act 2. its a lead up to ARW and requires no coin to respec

Deactivating Heroic Aura:
Turning off heroic during panacea conserves mana.

Element staff does double damage when matched with enemy weakness.

build list item just forgotten use whatever

[Grimling]

Reading the ingame description of Paralysis it says Duration: 20s, or 1s after first paralysis.

What does that mean? 1s after first paralysis?

[Lumikki]

It means when you cast the Paralysis to ground it will wait there for 20 second as active, when enemies aren't in it's area. If any enemy will go there in that time as it's still active, it will still wait for other enemies for 1 second after that. Remember it can capture (max) two enemies.

In my opinion, only upgraded version is really worth of having. 4 second paralysis on base version, is not really enough to be usefull, but upgraded version it has 10 second paralysis time and can get 4 enemies with 3 second wait time for other enemies.

Examples:

You can cast it ground front of you or top of you self. So, if next 20 second some enemy will run to you, it can get "traped" by the paralysis.  So it as like protection.

Other way is to cast it top of enemies and it will trap as many it can from there in that same moment. Good to take example few archers "off line" for 10 second.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 avril 2011 - 09:37 .

[Grimling]

Thanks Lumikki, that makes sense. The glyph will remain active for 1 second post activation allowing for the paralyzation of additional targets.