135 réponses à ce sujet

[HeliusOD]

Gravbh wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

It's a bit hard to use the Spectre defense when three hundred thousand Batarians and a Mass Relay were obliterated by your hand.

What about the chewbacca defense?

 

ah yes but can it be proven beyond the reason of doubt?

[HBC Dresden]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

Who cares about the trial. Because Shep's justification for wiping out a solar system is proven as the Reapers interrupt it to come down on earth like a ton of bricks.

Actually, it isn't.

No one can prove what Shepard's intention at the time is: she could be a raging anti-Batarian bigot, and would have done it anyway given the opportunity.

All that's proven is the existence of the Reapers themselves. Shepard could be blaming anything and everything on them, whether that was Shepard's motivation or not.

Seriously?

[InHarmsWay]

I'm guessing by trial, they mean a military tribunal. So it's likely going to look like "A Few Good Men" in terms of a trial. It'll be a military judge, a prosecutor, a defense attorney, some witnesses, but it'll be small. It'll be very private. Likely top-secret.

[Moiaussi]

InHarmsWay wrote...

I'm guessing by trial, they mean a military tribunal. So it's likely going to look like "A Few Good Men" in terms of a trial. It'll be a military judge, a prosecutor, a defense attorney, some witnesses, but it'll be small. It'll be very private. Likely top-secret.

If that was the case, why in blazes on Earth and how would that appease the Batarians?

[Obsidian Gryphon]

No no, it's a tactical strat by Harbinger! Who's to say something isn't implanted in Shep so that he/she ended being the key to opening the gateways when he/she has to return to Earth? The information Kensey gave Shep was probably a red herring, the Reapers were not 2 hours away, they were 02 00 00 years away.   What Shep did was just to cut down their travel time drastically to mere mths!    

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 20 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[Last Vizard]

"What Reapers?... oh yeah thats why i did that"
*pulls down Batarian head poster with darts in it*

[JediNg]

Everybody, with the exception of your crew (who are criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries), dismisses the existence of the reapers. Council doesn't believe you; Alliance doesn't believe you. The whole galaxy thinks you're delusional since the events in Mass Effect with talk of millions of years old sentient machines instead of Sovereign being a geth ship. Can't really blame them either. Kinda like lol 2012. Anyway, imagine someone nukes a city because they think it'll stop 2012. That's why Shepard is on trial.

Besides, the entire rest of the galaxy will get told as Reapers start touching down mid trial (presumably) and everyone will have to RUN FOR THEIR FRAKKING LIVES.

[008Zulu]

It was a Batarian system Shep blew up. Batarians arent a council race, nor generally part of galactic society as a whole. Also, they are Batarians, no one cares about a bunch of slavers.

[Last Vizard]

JediNg wrote...

Everybody, with the exception of your crew (who are criminals, terrorists, and mercenaries), dismisses the existence of the reapers. Council doesn't believe you; Alliance doesn't believe you. The whole galaxy thinks you're delusional since the events in Mass Effect with talk of millions of years old sentient machines instead of Sovereign being a geth ship. Can't really blame them either. Kinda like lol 2012. Anyway, imagine someone nukes a city because they think it'll stop 2012. That's why Shepard is on trial.

Besides, the entire rest of the galaxy will get told as Reapers start touching down mid trial (presumably) and everyone will have to RUN FOR THEIR FRAKKING LIVES.

Hope you can say "I told you so" when it happens, i told the reporter in ME 1 everything you can tell her... from the council meeting and other events from ME 1 and 2 that would've made it to the net, i would've believed Shep.
New world order.

hope i can choose "let them die" again if given a choice to save the new Council.... while Anderson is safe on your ship.

[Leonia]

It'd be a nice twist if the Council actually tries to back Shepard up for once (maybe they want to do their own investigation or what have you). Not holding my breath for it but for some of us we were especially helpful to the Council and it'd be nice to see them return the favour when we least expect their help.

[Merchant2006]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Of course, blowing an entire system and ending 300,000 lives in a single instant is obviously small cookies for a Spectre...

Hel-LO? Did you people miss out on ME1 or what? There are certain lines even a Spectre cannot cross. Attacking colonies is one of them, and blowing up mass relays is another.

*High Fives Cheez (for what it's worth)*

All of this jibba-jabba about "he shouldn't be on trial cuz he's a spectre" well... he pretty much has to answer to the alliance. BUT LETS NOT GET INTO A GIVEMEASOURCEALLIANCEDISCUSSION. Please lawd, please.

Saren attacked Eden Prime and the Council immediately revoked his status and began a hunt for him (to an extent). Shepard blew up a frigging Mass Relay and destroyed an entire syetem. Yeah that's... that makes Saren's attack on Eden Prime look like nothing. Sure Shepard did/didn't warn the Bahak peeps but the point is what happened in the end. Kabeuuuuuuuuuum!

Spectres, while given permission from the Council to "do what is necessary" for the protection of the galaxy etc, they still answer to the Council and have to follow set rules. Like you can't blow up a system being one of them. Heh.

[Kaylord]

SalsaDMA wrote...

My spectre was in the system to try and prevent a terroist act he had caught info about to blow up a system. He was too late and barely managed to escape alive.


You think differently? I'm afraid you will have to proove so without a shred of doubt then, that my Shepard wasn't just doing his job. Unfortunately, any evidence that could verify it was Shepard pushing the button is so much dust in an in-accesible system right now...

Just have to quote this. The ending of arrival was pissing me off. My renegade shep would have commented to Hacket exactly like this. My Shepard is no ******, he knows that nobody believes in the Reapers. So he starts to play along and work underground. Here, he has a perfect excuse since any proof got destroyed with the whole system.

Modifié par Kaylord, 20 avril 2011 - 09:05 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Shepard maybe is a spectre still and he saw it as a responsibility to go eath on trial considering how important he is and take the consequenses,even if his actions were justified and the only way of saving the galaxy, after all 300,000 batarians died and it's hard to believe for many that his actions were right since many people apparently buys the Council bull****.

[Dean_the_Young]

HBC Dresden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

Who cares about the trial. Because Shep's justification for wiping out a solar system is proven as the Reapers interrupt it to come down on earth like a ton of bricks.

Actually, it isn't.

No one can prove what Shepard's intention at the time is: she could be a raging anti-Batarian bigot, and would have done it anyway given the opportunity.

All that's proven is the existence of the Reapers themselves. Shepard could be blaming anything and everything on them, whether that was Shepard's motivation or not.

Seriously?

That is how trying to prove motive for an action works. An action with many potential motives can be held accountable on the basis of those motives, whether or not you actually employed them.

You think you were making a necessary sacrifice to prevent the imminent invasion by a hyper-advanced species of sentient, omnicidal starships?

You're not only crazy, but you killed 300,000 Batarian civilians because you have a past and you're simply the greatest racist from Hitler. Prove otherwise.

[JediNg]

Merchant2006 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Of course, blowing an entire system and ending 300,000 lives in a single instant is obviously small cookies for a Spectre...

Hel-LO? Did you people miss out on ME1 or what? There are certain lines even a Spectre cannot cross. Attacking colonies is one of them, and blowing up mass relays is another.

*High Fives Cheez (for what it's worth)*

All of this jibba-jabba about "he shouldn't be on trial cuz he's a spectre" well... he pretty much has to answer to the alliance. BUT LETS NOT GET INTO A GIVEMEASOURCEALLIANCEDISCUSSION. Please lawd, please.

Saren attacked Eden Prime and the Council immediately revoked his status and began a hunt for him (to an extent). Shepard blew up a frigging Mass Relay and destroyed an entire syetem. Yeah that's... that makes Saren's attack on Eden Prime look like nothing. Sure Shepard did/didn't warn the Bahak peeps but the point is what happened in the end. Kabeuuuuuuuuuum!

Spectres, while given permission from the Council to "do what is necessary" for the protection of the galaxy etc, they still answer to the Council and have to follow set rules. Like you can't blow up a system being one of them. Heh.

That's only because they think Shepard is crazy with respect to the Reapers.  ie he's a maniac that just blew up a system because of some baseless and far-fetched belief.

[EternalPink]

didymos1120 wrote...

EternalPink wrote...

Besides which who cares? The batarians are a rebel state, they withdrew from the council and sponsor terroism against a council race (Humans) so I dont see why anybody would shed any tears.

This is like saying that the population of any country with a wretched government doesn't count.  They can be slaughtered at will, and it's OK.  Well, no, it's not.  There's also the fact massive numbers of batarians are chattel slaves.  Talk about blaming the victim.

Trying to apply real world ethics to the future is silly but even if we did, if there wasn't media to push it in our face, yeah pretty much

Few hundred years ago before press, TV, internet etc do you really think that the conqueror of a city was nice and friendly to the people they'd just conquerored since there plenty of examples in history of that not being the case.

As to the alliance not wanting to go to war with the batarrians, with the correct spin (i.e "Look Batarrians this is what one of us did, you really dont want to upset our entire race?") you could turn it into a demonstration of where war between the alliance and the batarrians would go if they were foolish enough to start that up again.

Personnally i wouldn't pick a fight with a race that destroyed the indestructable relay and cause the death of a planet by means unknown

Modifié par EternalPink, 21 avril 2011 - 12:11 .

[SalsaDMA]

The history of Batarians, as form the wiki:

The Citadel Council made first contact with the batarians in approximately 200 BCE, and granted the batarians an embassy on the Citadel a century later. Despite being welcomed into the galactic community, batarian aggression provoked several crises in galactic relations over the years. Sometime around 1785 CE, a batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with batarian forces on the planet Enael.

In the early 2160s, humans began to colonize the Skyllian Verge, a region the batarians were already actively settling. The batarians asked the Citadel Council to intervene and declare the Verge an area of "batarian interest". When the Council refused, the batarians closed their Citadel embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations, becoming an inward-looking rogue state.

Money and weapons funneled from the batarian government to criminal organizations led to many brutal raids on human colonies in the Verge, culminating in the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-funded pirates and slavers. In 2178, the Alliance retaliated with a crushing assault on the moon of Torfan, long used as a staging base by batarian-backed criminals. In the aftermath, the batarians retreated into their own systems, and are now rarely seen in Citadel space.

Just what is Hackett playing at, given the Batarians history of 'diplomacy' ?

[Olwydd]

I don't find the idea of a trial outlandish at all. Shepard is essentially a rogue element out in the Terminus systems, operating without Council mandate, and is recently responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Of course they want her reeled in. You think genocide makes either the Council or the Alliance look good? Neither want a to enter into a conflict with the Batarians, so Shep provides a convenient scapegoat, given that the Batarians probably have surveillance footage. And as much as Hackett may like or respect Shep, he's not going to sit back and say mum if it means a avoiding a possible war, even if it means damning himself too.

Further, I really hope that Shep's previous contact with Batarians is brought up. At least 2/3 of all Sheps have a history of fighting Batarians, and many also have watched their families die at Batarian hands. If that doesn't give some credence to allegations of radical speciest tendencies, I don't know what does.

Modifié par Olwydd, 21 avril 2011 - 07:16 .

[Someone With Mass]

Not to mentioned that Shepard killed Vasir, who was a honest Spectre in the Council's eyes, since they probably didn't know about her connection with the SB.

[Frostmourne86]

I'm not sure if anyone's pointed this out yet, but the claim that 300,000 batarians died is wrong. From the Wiki (and what I remember from the codex entry upon orbiting the planet):
"The dark side to the mining does not appear on the propaganda poster -- the majority of laborers are indentured servants or slaves.
Population: Estimated 90,000 (free), 215,000 (other)"
I don't think that batarians make it a habit of enslaving their own people - they are slavers, kidnappers, and mercenaries - so a fraction of the total 300k are batarian (at least in my mind).

[AlexXIV]

Well blowing up the mass relay felt a bit like Bioware is killing off my paragon Shep to make her a 'Dark Knight'. Well removing Spectre status kinda nullifies the Paragon Shep tbh. I hope the trial is epic and I hope I get alot of people speaking for my Shep (all those who have something positive to say).

[KotOREffecT]

Lvl20DM wrote...

Ultimately it won't matter, as the proceedings will be interrupted:

[Harbinger bursts into court, hand held high]: OBJECTION!

 
I'd LOL so hard, dude..

[KotOREffecT]

AlexXIV wrote...

I hope the trial is epic and I hope I get alot of people speaking for my Shep (all those who have something positive to say).

Blasto.. thats right, Blasto..... Blasto vs Turian Councelor right now!... in an epic debate full of Ah Yes's and finger quotes..

Someone will meet his Enkindler!

[Temaperacl]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Not to mentioned that Shepard killed Vasir, who was a honest Spectre in the Council's eyes, since they probably didn't know about her connection with the SB.

In my main Shepard's eyes as well - the fact that we couldn't even try to use the omnitool to attempt to help her survive (like we can with bunches of other people - even if it didn't work) bugged me in that playthrough - In that Shep's eyes, it was a waste of a good Spectre.

[XavierL]

Lets get back to basics. Commander Shepard, Spectre, blew up a Mass Relay. That, legally, is not kosher, even fore Spectres. He might have been able to get away with it, if he was on an assignment given to him by the Council, personally. But, he was not doing a mission for them. Spectres only get diplomatic immunity when on a mission. Yes, they are immune to other legal applications, but for the most part, they are only untouchable when on a job.

Shepard destroyed a mass relay while doing a favor for an Alliance Admiral, not the Council, and there were 300K casualties as a result. Although, that technically isn't genocide. Intent is 9/10ths of the law, and genocide is defined as the systematic eradication of a certain group of people. Shepard was not trying to kill off the Batarians, the proof lies in the fact that there are still Batarians out there, and he wasn't actively trying to kill them. He is attempting genocide on the Reapers, but that's another story.

Shepard earned his court appearance though. He is responsible for mass man-slaughter and destruction of a Mass Relay charges. Not murder. Not genocide.