263 réponses à ce sujet

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

djwyattwood wrote...

Ariella wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Ariella wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
He isn't always right, I'm sure. Is he right that DA2 is an improvement over DAO? Yes.  

Not if sales are an indication. 

Sold faster than DAO with 5 years of waiting behind it in first two weeks, after that there's always going to be a drop off unless you have something like Dark Knight or Harry Pottter of gaming.

Which over half of the sales of DA2 were predicated on DA:O's merrits and not its own.

You have stats to prove that?

Look up pre-order numbers.

That doesn't prove your point. I know I guy who hated DAO but pre-ordered DA2 on the strength of ME2 and what he saw as the trailers and he loves it. Show me a break down where those numbers say "Yes, I ordered on the strenght of DAO alone". Hell, considering the craziness over DAA or ME2 and how many people said that would put them off preordering any Bioware products....

I stopped at "what he saw as the trailers." People buy games with 2's because of the 1. If 1 was bad, 2 wouldn't exist, PERIOD.

Thats your opinion, sir. it is not fact, but conjecture.

[brigantine]

JohnEpler wrote...

Dalira Montanti wrote...

@johnEpler
I hope the situation becomes better for you guys and i do hope there will be some light at the end of this strange tunnel

People are passionate. That's good! Of course, the personal attacks become a little tiresome, not to mention that they tend to lead to an immediate discounting of someone's opinion.

Most people restrict themselves to discussing the game and the issues they have with it. That's good, useable feedback, and they make up the majority of those on the forum in the 'negative' camp. It's, unfortunately, the few but vocal that figure that attacking specific people is going to give their point any more weight.

The personnel attacks are BS! While I have some issues with the game that I outlined on that review thread you guys set up, for the most part it was an awesome game. I'm on my second playthrough and I'm still having fun. I've got my $60 bucks worth and then some so even with the few worts its a great deal.

I read the article in question and I'm not sure what he really said wrong. Yeah he did not say the game was crap, but he game a decent reason why they reused some areas. It was an honest reason. They had more content than time. I hated the reused areas but I would have been more upset if them kept all that content out of the game then started charging for it soon after release as DLC. Either way Bioware were going to be the bad guys to some, but I like the option they picked.

[djwyattwood]

Okay, this the thread is ridiculous now. Just lock it.

Modifié par djwyattwood, 19 avril 2011 - 10:35 .

[Ariella]

djwyattwood wrote...

I do have a sense of entitlement about products I purchase. You may see money as something you throw away, I try get the most value out of mine. I mistakenly preordered DA2 thinking I would get that value and didn't. I am not the only one. Also: don't say they are sorting through feedback when you have no idea what they are doing. You don't know. You are a wishful thinker. You don't seem to question much. You seem to be a person who follows blindly.

So just because I'm not nasty about a game I liked, I'm sheep. Thank you very much for that assumption, considering you know jack about me, And yes, I do know that they're sorting through feedback, because I can look and see the results of their processing feedback from DAO and DAA in DA2, because I was on the forums when both came out and read the same feedback they did. Words like generic used to discribe the visuals in DAO and that there was a real lack of a color palate. Comments about the Fade crawls or the Deep Roads, or that the setting was just so generic it was a rip off of Song of Fire and Ice or Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings... Saw those things with my own two eyes, didn't agree with all of them (the Fade was my biggest agreement), but I saw them.

I also saw the major shouting match over DA2's click a prop dialogue system, which I happened to thing was lousy. DA2, we don't have that stuff anymore, as the team listened and then figured out ways to try and do those things better.

"All I've seen is a lot of nastiness thrown at a guy for doing his job, and the calls for his ouster are just OUT of LINE."

This is the issue. If he was good at his job, this thread wouldn't exist.

Bull, these kind of threads existed with DAO too, people just don't remember them. I invite you to go back into the DAO archives and look at how many accusations of plagurism, of being way too generic etc etc that existed at the time DAO came out. There were a lot of them, so many that one of the board's old timers (can't remember who at the moment) asked when the Bio boards had become the WoW boards. 

Success breeds discontent, and as for throwing away money, I didn't. I got a good value out of DA2 and look forward to replaying it again. Bioware was not deceitful in the least about where it was going. They made things quite clear the entire development cycle that this game was going to be different than DAO. I did my research before I pre-ordered and was ready to cancel if I saw something I didn't like, but that wasn't the case.  

So I have two words for you:

Buyer Beware.

It's YOUR money and YOUR responsibility when you make a purchase. You don't like the game, I'm sorry about that, but in this economy you chose to take a risk on buying a luxury item that tends not to have a return policy. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. Blaming Mike Laidlaw for your lack of enjoyment is counter productive, and calling for his ouster is out of line and generally obnoxious.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

And that, Mr. Epler, is why you're the most awesome BioWare employee

This. Mr. Epler to the rescue!

Ugh. All the brown nosing is sickening.

On the contrary to what some people tend to believe here, Lead Designer is the most important person behind the game, who leads it into specific direction and holds the main idea behind it. And all the interviews and comments (and titles in the game) kinda show us that mr. Laidlaw is the one who should (and actually does) take responsibility about all those game flaws on himself. But he sure has a strange way to deal with them and talk about them.

[toggled]

In reply to the OP: there are two issues at work here, one is denial and the other is groupthink. Denial preventa a person from changing and advancing; groupthink will do the same to an organization. For this reason, I believe Bioware is most likely doomed - which is a shame, because for many years Bioware had a reputation as a maker of quality games.

[Ariella]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

And that, Mr. Epler, is why you're the most awesome BioWare employee

This. Mr. Epler to the rescue!

Ugh. All the brown nosing is sickening.

On the contrary to what some people tend to believe here, Lead Designer is the most important person behind the game, who leads it into specific direction and holds the main idea behind it. And all the interviews and comments (and titles in the game) kinda show us that mr. Laidlaw is the one who should (and actually does) take responsibility about all those game flaws on himself. But he sure has a strange way to deal with them and talk about them.

I'd think Executive Producer/Project Director trumps Lead Designer in a project yet I have not seen any vitoral sent Mark Darrah's way. Nor have I seen a lot of vitoral slung at Dave Gaider who's listed as CREATOR along with Bioware on Wikipedia. This wasn't the work of one person.

[Kimberly Shaw]

JohnEpler wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Dalria, there are 80+ pages of very nicely written constructive criticsm stickied here, and as yet, no response to any of them. So, I call into doubt your assertion that they would do anything differently "if the customers would just clam (sic) down".

I've mentioned a few times that they're being read. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're expecting at this point - any changes that are made as a result of feedback and issues we want to address will be clear with the next product release, and no doubt if those changes are deemed important enough to discuss they will be talked about at length.

At the moment, though, there's not much else we can say beyond 'we're reading and listening.' And we have said that. Multiple times.

Since you asked me,what I'm "expecting at this point" is perhaps a bullet list response to the most common complaints in the stickied thread from the designers about whether they are valid and will be addressed in future expansions, down load content, and DA3/4/5/6 or if they are not valid and why they are going with this.

Is that really asking a huge amount? I thought that was the point of the thread being stickied? From what you're saying, if a moderator/yourself says "they are read" then but never give any feedback beyond that, what is the point? Is it just a place to collect negative comments instead of filling the forums with thread after thread on what is wrong?

I'm starting to suspect it is. It's been over a month. 80+ pages.

HOW ABOUT SOME D*** FEEDBACK?

Modifié par Kimberly Shaw, 19 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[Ariella]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Dalria, there are 80+ pages of very nicely written constructive criticsm stickied here, and as yet, no response to any of them. So, I call into doubt your assertion that they would do anything differently "if the customers would just clam (sic) down".

I've mentioned a few times that they're being read. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're expecting at this point - any changes that are made as a result of feedback and issues we want to address will be clear with the next product release, and no doubt if those changes are deemed important enough to discuss they will be talked about at length.

At the moment, though, there's not much else we can say beyond 'we're reading and listening.' And we have said that. Multiple times.

Since you asked me,what I'm "expecting at this point" is perhaps a bullet list response to the most common complaints in the stickied thread from the designers about whether they are valid and will be addressed in future expansions, down load content, and DA3/4/5/6 or if they are not valid and why they are going with this.

Is that really asking a huge amount? I thought that was the point of the thread being stickied? From what you're saying, if a moderator/yourself says "they are read" then but never give any feedback beyond that, what is the point? Is it just a place to collect negative comments instead of filling the forums with thread after thread on what is wrong?

I'm starting to suspect it is. It's been over a month. 80+ pages.

HOW ABOUT SOME D*** FEEDBACK?

This isn't a beta forum or beta readers. You're not going to get feedback on your feedback as the team's probably busy doing their jobs. The feedback will come in the form of DLC/Expansions/new games. Until then you have to wait like the rest of us, espcially since this isn't the only place they're getting feedback from.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I'd think Executive Producer/Project Director trumps Lead Designer in a project

Not quite, I humbly believe that Executive Producer (at least in cinema and music) is more of a business manager. He is't involved into technical media production.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Thank you DA2 apologist.

Sorry, since they officially stickied a thread for criticism, asking for feedback, I assumed they might respond to some of it instead of just saying 'we read it". I don't know what that has to do with Beta playing, but clearly you think that only beta testers get any feedback on complaints???

I disagree with that.

Proof? They already responded to the waves criticism by saying it will stay but be greatly reduced in the next game. And guess what, it's not a beta complaint.

So, given that precedent, I'd like to see something like that for each of the remaining points.

[John Epler]

At this point, I think we've passed the point where this thread is continuing to offer constructive discussion.

Now let me show you how to lock a thread... Cajun style.

[Vicious]

I'd say the most hilarious thing is that before DA2 was released, this forum was filled with 'i love mike laidlaw' and 'mike laidlaw is sooo cute zomg'

Now it's just hate and bile.

ah the fickle playerbase.