263 réponses à ce sujet

[djwyattwood]

Lumikki wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...
This is what I would like:
1) Admit mistakes made.
2) Attempt to patch mistakes made.
3) Don't make same mistakes.
Is that unreasonable?

Until DA 3 marketing campaign comes, yes it is. When DA 3 marketing starts, DA 2 bashing by developers will begin. That's what happened to DA:O, anyway.

I agree.

It is unresonable think that company would BASH they own new product while it's new and still marketed. After time has past, then they can judge they own product openly. People should really learn how business works and not make childish assumptions.

I am acting childish because I want companies to have integrity? You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[Dubya75]

Lumikki wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...
This is what I would like:
1) Admit mistakes made.
2) Attempt to patch mistakes made.
3) Don't make same mistakes.
Is that unreasonable?

Until DA 3 marketing campaign comes, yes it is. When DA 3 marketing starts, DA 2 bashing by developers will begin. That's what happened to DA:O, anyway.

I agree.

It is unresonable think that company would BASH they own new product while it's new and still marketed. After time has past, then they can judge they own product openly. People should really learn how business works and not make childish assumptions.

Like this for example?

"Laidlaw simply ignores every opinion except of his own. I did that too...back when I was 7 or sth."

ROFLMAO

[Xewaka]

djwyattwood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...
This is what I would like:
1) Admit mistakes made.
2) Attempt to patch mistakes made.
3) Don't make same mistakes.
Is that unreasonable?

Until DA 3 marketing campaign comes, yes it is. When DA 3 marketing starts, DA 2 bashing by developers will begin. That's what happened to DA:O, anyway.

I agree.
It is unresonable think that company would BASH they own new product while it's new and still marketed. After time has past, then they can judge they own product openly. People should really learn how business works and not make childish assumptions.

I am acting childish because I want companies to have integrity? You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

There's is a difference between "integrity" and "Taking food away from their own plates". They probably know exactly were they went wrong - hindsight is funny that way - but since they still need to sell their product to earn a living, they won't come out and say "yeah, it's rubbish, don't buy it".
Once the PR machine starts hyping the "new and better" game, then you'll start seeing them admitting - and exaggerating - the flaws in the former game. But until then, they'll stay silent, because they have to make a living.

[djwyattwood]

Xewaka wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...
This is what I would like:
1) Admit mistakes made.
2) Attempt to patch mistakes made.
3) Don't make same mistakes.
Is that unreasonable?

Until DA 3 marketing campaign comes, yes it is. When DA 3 marketing starts, DA 2 bashing by developers will begin. That's what happened to DA:O, anyway.

I agree.
It is unresonable think that company would BASH they own new product while it's new and still marketed. After time has past, then they can judge they own product openly. People should really learn how business works and not make childish assumptions.

I am acting childish because I want companies to have integrity? You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

There's is a difference between "integrity" and "Taking food away from their own plates". They probably know exactly were they went wrong - hindsight is funny that way - but since they still need to sell their product to earn a living, they won't come out and say "yeah, it's rubbish, don't buy it".
Once the PR machine starts hyping the "new and better" game, then you'll start seeing them admitting - and exaggerating - the flaws in the former game. But until then, they'll stay silent, because they have to make a living.

One could argue that they are still "taking food from their own plate" by not admitting their mistakes and condemning DA3 to possibly sell less.

[Lumikki]

djwyattwood wrote...

One could argue that they are still "taking food from their own plate" by not admitting their mistakes and condemning DA3 to possibly sell less.

Sorry, but that is not the way Business world works or even generally our real world. Customers wants the truth, but companies only tell what's best for them. Truth and what's best for company isn't allways same. It's little like marketing, you don't tell what's you products problems when trying to sell it. You try to tell what's good in that product for customers. It's like not telling hole truth. That's how business and world works. Don't be naive and think we live in honest world where everyone think truth is the best choise.

Bioware is still selling DA2. So, no truth yet, untill it's old product and they can talk about it failures openly.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 avril 2011 - 09:51 .

[KLUME777]

Camenae wrote...

I doubt he can just say whatever he wants on interviews. EA owns Bioware, so it's not wise/in breach of his contract to bite the hand that feeds him, and all that.

It would at least appease fans that he admitted to the failures, because if he doesnt see it as a failure, then DA3 will be the same, and i and many others won't be buying DA3.

[djwyattwood]

Lumikki wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

One could argue that they are still "taking food from their own plate" by not admitting their mistakes and condemning DA3 to possibly sell less.

Sorry, but that is not the way Business world works or even generally our real world. Customers wants the truth, but companies only tell what's best for them. Truth and what's best for company isn't allways same. It's little like marketing, you don't tell what's you products problems when trying to sell it. You try to tell what's good in that product for customers. It's like not telling hole truth. That's how business and world works. Don't be naive and think we live in honest world where everyone think truth is the best choise.

You would allow companies to lie and cheat you out of your dollar just because "that is how the world works." Maybe instead of allowing them to do that to you, you should demand better, not give them your money, and tell other people the why and how. Like I said, I work for a company that when mistakes are make, they are also rectified to the best of their ability. You should accept no less, vote with your dollar.

[KLUME777]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

is he even on the forums anymore?

Of course not. Would you be?

PS: don't lie and say you would.

I'd make a fake account and look at what everyone's saying about me.



My God I can't trust any of you! You could be Mike Laidlaw!

Or......you could be Mike Laidlaw!

[Lumikki]

djwyattwood wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

One could argue that they are still "taking food from their own plate" by not admitting their mistakes and condemning DA3 to possibly sell less.

Sorry, but that is not the way Business world works or even generally our real world. Customers wants the truth, but companies only tell what's best for them. Truth and what's best for company isn't allways same. It's little like marketing, you don't tell what's you products problems when trying to sell it. You try to tell what's good in that product for customers. It's like not telling hole truth. That's how business and world works. Don't be naive and think we live in honest world where everyone think truth is the best choise.

You would allow companies to lie and cheat you out of your dollar just because "that is how the world works." Maybe instead of allowing them to do that to you, you should demand better, not give them your money, and tell other people the why and how. Like I said, I work for a company that when mistakes are make, they are also rectified to the best of their ability. You should accept no less, vote with your dollar.

Allow?

I have ZERO choise, that's fact of life. What you want is irrelevant. There is nothing what you can do about it. You can stop buying company's product if you like to protest agaist them, but it has no affect to anything at all. Meaning you can be idealist as much you like, but in the end you have to accept how the world works or suffer rest of your life about how world doesn't work like you want.

Companies doesn't admit "failure" unless they have no other choise or when the admiting it doesn't harm company more than do good. Companies job is to sell they product and make money, not just make some fans feel more comfortable. They have to think big picture as all customers and what's good for company, not just a few fans.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 avril 2011 - 10:09 .

[blothulfur]

I'm not a fan of DA2 by any means but isn't all this Mike Laidlaw hate going a bit far, I mean i've had a chuckle at some of it but I don't think he's intentionally setting out to make a bad game just that his artistic vision has deviated quite drastically from ours.

That said after a certain fight in act 2 I went out to my garage and beat the crap out of my punchbag muttering "effing waves" so I can see your frustration.

[Sabriana]

blothulfur wrote...

I'm not a fan of DA2 by any means but isn't all this Mike Laidlaw hate going a bit far, I mean i've had a chuckle at some of it but I don't think he's intentionally setting out to make a bad game just that his artistic vision has deviated quite drastically from ours.

That said after a certain fight in act 2 I went out to my garage and beat the crap out of my punchbag muttering "effing waves" so I can see your frustration.

Can I come to your garage? Please?

As for voting with your wallet, that is already taking place in some way. If enough people do that, the company either wins or loses. If they lose enough, they'll reconsider the avenue they are currently on. That goes for the Edsel as well as for games, or any other consumer product. People certainly do have a choice. Otherwise, we could also say "Vote? Why bother?" And imo, enough people do that already, even though doing so doesn't cost a dime/cent/other currency.

[billy the squid]

elearon1 wrote...

So, what do you want here? The guy to publicly admit the game is flawed and bash his own company? That probably wouldn't make the guys in the marketing department - not to mention his superiors in EA - very happy.

At any rate, I liked the game, I liked the way it was handled, and I hope his defense of the product will encourage more people to experience it. Your outrage and frustration only speak for a portion of the community.

You liked the game?...BLASPHEMY!!

Mr. Laidlaw, REPENT!... and thou shall be saved!

Modifié par billy the squid, 19 avril 2011 - 10:28 .

[wicked_being]

I remember reading Brent Knowles' blog about why he left BW (not liking the direction it's headed and the type of gameplay they want to implement) and then I found this post:

http://social.biowar...82457/1#4982518

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brent left before we'd started any solid plans on Dragon Age II. Just conjecture, but I doubt he would declare DA2 an unworthy successor were he to play it today. He'd probably have some awesome feedback, though!

Mike is never wrong. Ugh.

Modifié par wicked_being, 19 avril 2011 - 10:45 .

[Sabriana]

wicked_being wrote...

I remember reading Brent Knowles' blog about why he left BW (not liking the direction it's headed and the type of gameplay they want to implement) and then I found this post:

http://social.biowar...82457/1#4982518

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brent left before we'd started any solid plans on Dragon Age II. Just conjecture, but I doubt he would declare DA2 an unworthy successor were he to play it today. He'd probably have some awesome feedback, though! Brent is a kick-ass designer.

Mike is never wrong. Ugh.

To be fair, he was completely right about the part I bolded.

[Shazzie]

Dubya75 wrote...
So you're basing your opinion of BioWare on what others are saying instead of just playing the game and forming your own opinion?
It is this kind of attitude that is fuelling the hate and blowing things way out of proportion!

Seriously? I pre-ordered DA2, as I do with all BioWare games. I worship at their altar, they can do no wrong, yadda yadda. OF COURSE I PLAYED IT. As my post stated, they'd never let me down before, but they did with DA2. How could the game have let me down if I didn't experience the game? How on earth could I form the opinion I have formed if I hadn't played the game? What ever gave you the idea that I hadn't?

It was the post-game reaction-to-the-fan's-reactions that's really driven things home for me. I played it, I had issues with it, and I waited to see how the devs would respond.

That response is what has saddened me the most.

EDIT: And seriously, dude. Look under my freaking avatar. HELLO DA2 REGISTRATION. For f's sake.

Modifié par Shazzie, 19 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[AkiKishi]

Because of the demographic of the people who read those web interviews he would probably be better off saying nothing. The flaws in DA2 are inexcusable , trying to paint over the problem is just fueling the fire.

[wicked_being]

Sabriana wrote...

wicked_being wrote...

I
remember reading Brent Knowles' blog about why he left BW (not liking
the direction it's headed and the type of gameplay they want to
implement) and then I found this post:

http://social.biowar...82457/1#4982518

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brent
left before we'd started any solid plans on Dragon Age II. Just
conjecture, but I doubt he would declare DA2 an unworthy successor were
he to play it today. He'd probably have some awesome feedback, though! Brent is a kick-ass designer.

Mike is never wrong. Ugh.

To be fair, he was completely right about the part I bolded.

Heh you're right. Should've edited it out

Modifié par wicked_being, 19 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[fchopin]

Lumikki wrote...

Companies doesn't admit "failure" unless they have no other choise or when the admiting it doesn't harm company more than do good.

Imo every time he says something it costs Bioware sales. He is doing more harm than good.
 
It’s better for the game if he says nothing.

[Yrkoon]

marshalleck wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

is he even on the forums anymore?

Of course not. Would you be?

PS: don't lie and say you would.

 If I truly thought that what I did was  right,  then yes.  I *would*.

Where I come from, if you honestly believe you did the right thing,  then you have nothing to fear.   You should jump at the opportunity  to take on anyone who disagrees with you.  You should be confident enough to engage ANYONE in a  fact-filled, point by point debate.


There can only be 3 possible reasons why Laidlaw has pulled a complete disappearing act from these forums.

1) He's not  genuinely confident in the job he's done with this game and thus knows that his arguments  will fail to withstand any real  human-based discussion
2) His bosses told him to lay low and stay away from the forums for now
3) He simply doesn't give a Sh*t about this community.

Take your pick.

I'm certainly ready to debate *my* stance of the game  with him and all his defenders, aren't you?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 avril 2011 - 11:25 .

[LilyasAvalon]

erynnar wrote...

Not to be cheeky, really...I think you answered your own question. Yeah, I got the distinct feeling that Mr. Laidlaw doesn't like DAO, and never did. And he was brought on to the DA franchise late, basically after it was already made, so I don't know that he had that much imput. Again, subjective on my part. Could be wildly off base. Just the impression I got.

I get that feeling a lot too, not just from Laidlaw though, quite a few of them, Thye just seemed so much more into DA2 and EXCITED by it. But like another poster said, what annoys me is that they are treating us like morons or children who didn't get their way. I want someone, ANYONE, from Bioware to acknowledge 'Yeah, we maybe screwed up a bit, we're really sorry guys, smoothies on us?', even if it's just the tech support guy!

It may also be denial, maybe they did feel they created the next big thing and they'd rather live in a fantasy it's doing great than notice that this... game is not what we wanted (The MASSIVE decrease in sales is enough to show that).

We're their fans and some of Bioware's most loyal and oldest fans have even looked down on DA2.

If the devs aren't going to listen to us, what the point then?

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 19 avril 2011 - 11:24 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Yrkoon wrote...
1) He's not  genuinely confident in the job he's done with this game and thus knows that his arguments  will fail to withstand any real  human-based discussion
2) His bosses told him to lay low and stay away from the forums for now
3) He simply doesn't give a Sh*t about this community.

Take your pick.

Just judging from what we've seen lately? Where is the 'all of the above option'?

[Zaldrak84]

 Meh, he probably just says what the marketing guys tell him to say.

Modifié par Zaldrak84, 19 avril 2011 - 11:31 .

[Merchant2006]

OP should know by now that you can never fight against the wisdom that is Press A for Awesome.