43 réponses à ce sujet

[Richard parrington]

 Has no one else
noticed how many threads and comments have been spawned out of the Mage/Templar
choice? For an ending that so many people are criticizing a lot more people
seem to be getting into very passionate arguments about who was right and who
was wrong. Could it be that the because the ending lives far more in the grey
than the end of Act II people fail to realize how much it has made them think.

Think on it.

[Knightly_BW]

After finishing Mass Effect 2 second time last night. I realized that maybe one of the reason people complain is DA 2 ending doesn't feel heroic. You don't feel Hawke's effect and most importantly you are forced to fight a war you dragged in. (If you are not a mage you have little connection to the story. Your sister? Yeah make her whine and let Meredith kill her is fun to watch but I don't really feel any attachement to her. I feel more closer to other party members. If there was Aveline or Varric in danger I would enjoy rescuing them more)

Hawke is not a hero, he's a victim. So instead of epic heroic stories we've used to play on RPGs this one is an entire tragedy of one man's life.

Is game's story is good? Yes
Is it different than many games out there? Yes
Does it raise many questions/opinions? Yes
Does it make you feel you want to finish it again? No

People love to watch tragedies/dramas but don't like to live them. Especially not in where they want to live somethings to escape real life dramas. Worst of all fast paced combat builds a great contrast with the feeling game's trying to awake.

Instead of a sequel if DA 2 was an expansion (or better a novel) maybe it will get more deserved praises. In it's current state I prefer ME 2 and the excitement it brings (after passing Omega Relay your blood starts running wild).

I am a bit distracted today I hope this post makes sense.

[Isaidlunch]

The choice and Anders' actions (which was done well IMO) are about the only grey areas of the ending. Other than that it's just a black and white path of crazy, unsympathetic characters turning on you for AWESOME BOSS BATTLES!!!!!!! Oh, and your actions don't change the outcome. That's why people complain about the ending.

Modifié par Kazanth, 19 avril 2011 - 09:38 .

[rayvioletta]

I'm not so much annoyed by the 'cliffhanger' ending, it felt more like a sequel hook than a full cliffhanger to me since the main plot was resolved, but what annoyed me is that just like every other decision in the game it meant nothing
siding with one or the other should have been the most important decision of the game, instead we get the exact same three battles just in a slightly different order regardless of which way we do things (Orsino, halls, Meredith or halls, Orsino, Meredith) and the same ending no matter what

yes the debate between Templars, Mages and whether or not there can be a compromise is a good and important one, but if the game itself doesn't care a whit about it then why should we?

[whykikyouwhy]

I think there is some validity to complaints possibly stemming from the lack of a heroic ending. Personally, I was happy with the game, but as the credits rolled on my first playthrough, I felt like I had been on a harrowing rollercoaster trip. No posing with arms akimbo on the mountaintop. Just me wanting a drink.
If we look at DAII as (hopefully) the middle bit in a trilogy, then by the unwritten law of the trilogy, it's supposed to be darker, a bit of a cliffhanger, and perhaps, to some, a bit of a let down. Think Empire Strikes Back - you're left with questions of what's going to happen and who is coming back, as well as a bit of disappointment over the lack of a Death Star explosion (and a 3 year wait until you get to be immersed in that world again). Of course, this puts a lot of hazy faith in a part III, and might make us have exceedingly high expectations for what is to come.
The hazy gray stirs up discourse.

[Avilia]

My issue isn't with the lack of closure or heroic ending, my issue is with the two boss fights. My first time through I felt like whykikyouwhy (great handle btw) - wrung out and a bit stunned. After another run I was less 'omfg' and more 'eh, okay, so why the dickens is this happening again?'. I'm still trying to work that one out.

That's my issue then - what exactly is going on that needs Orsino and Meredith to both be bats? Wouldn't a nice ordinary Templar/Mage showdown have done the trick?

Perhaps there is some long term point I'm missing that will become clearer with time. I hope so, I really do, because otherwise, its just a bit silly.

[Foolsfolly]

For an ending that so many people are criticizing a lot more people
seem to be getting into very passionate arguments about who was right and who
was wrong.

Just because it spawns discussion does not mean it's good. Look at Plan 9 from Outer Space parties or the entire love for Rocky Horror Picture Show. People discuss the hell out of those movies and they're not anything close to what you'd call good.

Although, Rocky Horror's close to the "so bad it's good" quality.

The problem with the ending is that it's empty and hollow. The ending just doesn't have any umph to it. It doesn't feel like anything's resolved, Hawke had no reason to even be involved, and the epilogue gives us no closure on anything.

The choice is kind of interesting, but as has been discussed around here it's not the same choice of who you support. The Mage situation is an interesting one and would no doubt allow for deep discussions on the rights of minorities and personal freedom vs public security.

But the moment Anders blows up the Chantry that's no longer the issue. It's become this forced, "side here or there" and that's not as interesting as the freedom vs security argument. It's just Meredith going crazy and Annulling the Circle and then the Circle showing that they're mostly corrupted Blood Mages anyway.

I'd say there's about as much talk about how shoddy the ending act is as much as there is about the choices at the end. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less.

[byzantine horse]

As far as the ending goes I could care less what Hawke does once the game is over - ie disappearing - if the actual end fight wasn't so bad. Orsino should have been killed by Meredith, then Meredith could have jumped on Hawke seeing the player as the only threat remaining to her position: You don't need any lyrium artifacts to engineer that.

[Foolsfolly]

If we look at DAII as (hopefully) the middle bit in a trilogy, then by the unwritten law of the trilogy, it's supposed to be darker, a bit of a cliffhanger, and perhaps, to some, a bit of a let down.

DA is not a trilogy. No one's ever said it was. Gaider's even gone out of his way on these boards to confirm that it's not a trilogy. It's just a series and it'll likely go on for as long as they have stories to tell.

Mass Effect's their trilogy series where they've planned out to unfold over three games. As such it's only fair to judge the game as it's own story, not a middle part.

[Icy Magebane]

It isn't just the ending, Act 3 just wasn't that good compared to Acts 1 and 2. It was too short, very disjointed, and ended too abruptly. If you read the wrong letter on your desk and go to the Gallows, that's it. No turning back. I just never have any desire to play this game beyond the beginning of Act 3. There's nothing interesting going on...

The ending itself though? It was just kind of sloppy, especially if you support the Mages. It's bad enough that the idol makes Meredith turn on you even if you support her without question, but Orsino the Harvester attacking you on a pro-mage run??? WTH was that about? I'll never understand how that idea made it into the game... maybe they realized Act 3 was too short so they tossed in 2 boss battles to make things seem "epic." As it stands, the endgame is mostly nonsense. Harvester wasn't even difficult, so it could have been cut entirely. I doubt anybody would have cared (although it would have been a good "final" boss for a templar run... meaning, "no Meredith fight afterwards).

I don't mind the cliffhanger ending though... either Hawke walks away or the Templars bow to him. It was presented well enough.

[jcp234]

Act III is surprisingly subpar. When it came time to pick a side, I sided with the mages without hesitation. It's obvious the writers tried to build this grey area and make it difficult for the player to choose a side...but most of the events of DA2 feel forced and cumbersome (probably due to execution because of resource constraints - time).

Maybe once Mass Effect 3 is out of the way...Bioware can focus on making the next installment in the series something truly special.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I'd read in a review that the game ended with a cliffhanger so what happened in the end felt like more closure than I was expecting. I liked not playing the hero for a change though, gave me a chance to role play a different character. When playing Origins even if I played as a complete *insert expletive*, who would bust out her murder knife whenever the opportunity arose, she was still a hero that was trying to save the world. When playing a renegade Shepard even when she did harsh things she was doing them for the greater good. I do wish Hawke had some more murder knife opportunities though.

[Sabriana]

The problem with act III was that it could not in any way have better demonstrated that Hawke was a victim of circumstances all the way up. Nothing could have shown me, personally, better that Hawke didn't really matter, and that she was useless and reactive. It didn't start with act III for me, it started when I was told that 3 years had passed and the situation had been getting steadily worse over those 3 years.

Well, where was Hawke? Why didn't she try to defuse this situation in those 3 years? Was she in a stasis pod? Dead, and waiting for the cigarette dude and his bosses? She is supposedly the champion of Kirkwall, her prime focus should be the citizens of that city. You don't have to be super-smart to realize that escalating tensions between two powerful factions can only end bad if not addressed early and often.

Then act III itself made everything worse. Why use a MacGuffin? Meredith's back-story would've worked all on its own. Why is Hawke forced to fight both, after forcing the player to pick a side for her/his Hawke? Why go Hollywood and blow up a building? Why is Meredith flying through the air like that and how the heck did she animate all those statues? The harvester appeared, and like the poster above, I was ready to get me a drink. Simply to wash the bad taste out of my mouth.

[Everwarden]

Richard parrington wrote...

 Has no one else
noticed how many threads and comments have been spawned out of the Mage/Templar
choice? For an ending that so many people are criticizing a lot more people
seem to be getting into very passionate arguments about who was right and who
was wrong. Could it be that the because the ending lives far more in the grey
than the end of Act II people fail to realize how much it has made them think.

Think on it.

The problem with the ending isn't the moral difficulty of the choice (the right choice is siding with mages, no sane person punishes people for a crime they didn't commit), the problem is that the ending sucked. It's the same regardless of your choices throughout the game or at the end, and you get the same epilogue regardless.

A lot of people call it a cliffhanger, which I don't think is accurate; a cliffhanger leaves one wanting more. I don't want to know -any- more about Hawke, or his ridiculous button-awesome misadventures. I never want to see his ugly, bearded face again or deal with facepalm worthy "witty Hawke" spoke dialogue.

It's more accurate to call it an anticlimax and then a full stop. There is no closure and no real climax ("Oh, yay, I get to kill both the mage and templar leaders. So they aren't even pretending my choices matter now.").

It didn't even feel like the end to me, I thought "Okay, this is only year seven, there will be another act after I slog through this garbage. Maybe it will be better." Then the credits rolled. It's almost as though they just ran out of time and took a cleaver to the real ending.

[AlexXIV]

It is not really in the grey. Meredith was insane, so was probably Anders and Orsino as well. It is discussed so much because many people are entitled to their opinion and won't use reason to answer. To be honest it is about insanity and the best option for any sane person would be to walk away from it. But you can't do that.

[Foolsfolly]

A lot of people call it a cliffhanger, which I don't think is accurate; a cliffhanger leaves one wanting more. I don't want to know -any- more about Hawke, or his ridiculous button-awesome misadventures. I never want to see his ugly, bearded face again or deal with facepalm worthy "witty Hawke" spoke dialogue.

It's more accurate to call it an anticlimax and then a full stop

Total agreement.

[Wulfram]

AlexXIV wrote...

It is not really in the grey. Meredith was insane, so was probably Anders and Orsino as well. It is discussed so much because many people are entitled to their opinion and won't use reason to answer. To be honest it is about insanity and the best option for any sane person would be to walk away from it. But you can't do that.

Hawke is a hero, not a sane person.

[Bmeszaros]

Hawke is an oppurtunist, really. Not a Hero. Nothing more..... Even the trailers and the dev diaries all pushed this "Rise to Power" message.

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

It is not really in the grey. Meredith was insane, so was probably Anders and Orsino as well. It is discussed so much because many people are entitled to their opinion and won't use reason to answer. To be honest it is about insanity and the best option for any sane person would be to walk away from it. But you can't do that.

Hawke is a hero, not a sane person.

You just made baby Jesus Maker sad.

[AlexXIV]

Bmeszaros wrote...

Hawke is an oppurtunist, really. Not a Hero. Nothing more..... Even the trailers and the dev diaries all pushed this "Rise to Power" message.

Well you forge Hawke's character. If you want Hawke to be one, then he/she will be one.

[drvaughn1999]

The whole game was a let down and the ending sucked too. What I wanted to to do was kill all the mages, because few I ran into in the game were plain mages, most all were blood mages. I also wanted to kill all the templars because all they wanted to do was kill every mage no matter what. So killing everyone would have been a better ending then what we got.

[TheAwesomologist]

The game had it's issues through out. No game is perfect. But Act 1 meanders and drags on trying to introduce too many story elements. Act 2 is actually interesting, but not for the Mage/Templar conflict but because of the Qunari, the serial killer, and your companions. The only detraction to Act 2 is that you're still visiting all the same maps you explored in Act 1. By Act 3 they start to tease that you may make a difference and then poof! They take away any semblance of choice. Oh sure you can choose a side but it doesn't mean anything except for some dialog changes.

If you figure out what Anders is doing you can't stop him. You can gain the respect of the nobles and the people but you can't use them to become Viscount. Every NPC Mage is annoying and retarded. Every Templar is blind to their own actions, and the ones that aren't wind up dead. Your companions don't even want to be involved. Varric and Isabella rather not deal with the issue, Sebastian calls out Meredith on her sheer and utter STUPIDITY and no one reacts to it. Even Bohdan knows its time to get out of Dodge.

You help the mages? Who cares they'll act like you don't. You help the Templars? Who cares, they still don't trust you. The only feeling I got at the end was "I had a lot of fun with my companions and now I'm just a victim of circumstance, not the hero I've been building myself up to be."

I just hope that the Act 4 DLC/Expansion pack lets Hawke actually do something that matters. Heck even if it's Sebastian coming around to burn down Kirkwall, I'll hand him the torch.

[Camenae]

Twilight spawns a lot of passionate debate too, albeit mostly between Team Jacob and Team Edward. But is it good?

[BlueMew]

Camenae wrote...

Twilight spawns a lot of passionate debate too, albeit mostly between Team Jacob and Team Edward. But is it good?

LOL

Sorry. I like DA, and more or less agree with the OP, but this was just priceless *snicker*