178 réponses à ce sujet

[Boiny Bunny]

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Huh huh.

There is nothing nitpicking about non rotting corpses and a static scenery that stays the same over a number of years.

Like the party camp stays the same everywhere, like Denerim doesn't change AT ALL in over a year (Having the former regent with me made zilch difference in that drab place......and that should be a HUGE impact, given Loggy's fame...not even the Captain of the Guard in Denerim reacted. I could still do Couldry's Steal Loghain's crown quest, WITH Loghain present and his own employee never aknowledged his former master being with me!).....all of this can be applied on DAO just as easily.

Heh, I never realised that.  You're right - but really, that's a product of Origins being an immensely more complex game than DA2.  There are an absurd number of variables in DA:O which change the nature of quests depending on who you have in your party.  A great example is when you have to send 2 party members to rescue the Warden from Fort Drakon (assuming you don't bust out yourself).  Depending on which 2 you pick, the results can be wildly different - and each hilarious in their own way.

For another example, when you are trying to cross Lake Calenhad to the Circle Tower, if you do not succeed in pursuading Carroll to let you go across, he initiates a dialogue with one of your party members that results in you being allowed across.  This also differs by party member.  As I recall Morrigan essentially threatened to turn into a spider then try and have sex with him, which would result in him losing a few limbs to say the least.

Both games have silly bugs and things which break immersion (such as seeing the same clearing over and over, or the same corpses in Fenris's house 6 years on), but I believe most of the ones in DA:O are more minor and excusable given the sheer scope of the game.

I mean, compare how many environments DA:O uses, compared to how many DA2 reuses.

[AkiKishi]

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
As for corpses, couldn't care less.

You don't care about anything beyond making DA2 not look like a failure.

Remember what I said about extremes, Bobby dear?

Do NOT presume you know anything about me or my motivations.

Do NOT give me the "You'd luff DAII no matter what" nonsense.

And do NOT get personal with me. We are discussing a game, not your mind reading abilities.

You typed it not me.

I don't need to presume anything, I already know why you connect so personally with the DA2 story. What you fail to realise is that without those personal experiences, the DA2 story will not have the same effect on others.

I could dig through other threads for other examples of you not caring, but frankly this is not worth the effort.

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
As for corpses, couldn't care less.

You don't care about anything beyond making DA2 not look like a failure.

Remember what I said about extremes, Bobby dear?

Do NOT presume you know anything about me or my motivations.

Do NOT give me the "You'd luff DAII no matter what" nonsense.

And do NOT get personal with me. We are discussing a game, not your mind reading abilities.

You typed it not me.

I don't need to presume anything, I already know why you connect so personally with the DA2 story. What you fail to realise is that without those personal experiences, the DA2 story will not have the same effect on others.

I could dig through other threads for other examples of you not caring, but frankly this is not worth the effort.

It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

[Dubya75]

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
As for corpses, couldn't care less.

You don't care about anything beyond making DA2 not look like a failure.

Remember what I said about extremes, Bobby dear?

Do NOT presume you know anything about me or my motivations.

Do NOT give me the "You'd luff DAII no matter what" nonsense.

And do NOT get personal with me. We are discussing a game, not your mind reading abilities.

You typed it not me.

I don't need to presume anything, I already know why you connect so personally with the DA2 story. What you fail to realise is that without those personal experiences, the DA2 story will not have the same effect on others.

I could dig through other threads for other examples of you not caring, but frankly this is not worth the effort.

It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

And Bob gets knocked out in the third round! Ding-ding-ding!

[Persephone]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Huh huh.

There is nothing nitpicking about non rotting corpses and a static scenery that stays the same over a number of years.

Like the party camp stays the same everywhere, like Denerim doesn't change AT ALL in over a year (Having the former regent with me made zilch difference in that drab place......and that should be a HUGE impact, given Loggy's fame...not even the Captain of the Guard in Denerim reacted. I could still do Couldry's Steal Loghain's crown quest, WITH Loghain present and his own employee never aknowledged his former master being with me!).....all of this can be applied on DAO just as easily.

Heh, I never realised that.  You're right - but really, that's a product of Origins being an immensely more complex game than DA2.  There are an absurd number of variables in DA:O which change the nature of quests depending on who you have in your party.  A great example is when you have to send 2 party members to rescue the Warden from Fort Drakon (assuming you don't bust out yourself).  Depending on which 2 you pick, the results can be wildly different - and each hilarious in their own way.

For another example, when you are trying to cross Lake Calenhad to the Circle Tower, if you do not succeed in pursuading Carroll to let you go across, he initiates a dialogue with one of your party members that results in you being allowed across.  This also differs by party member.  As I recall Morrigan essentially threatened to turn into a spider then try and have sex with him, which would result in him losing a few limbs to say the least.

Both games have silly bugs and things which break immersion (such as seeing the same clearing over and over, or the same corpses in Fenris's house 6 years on), but I believe most of the ones in DA:O are more minor and excusable given the sheer scope of the game.

I mean, compare how many environments DA:O uses, compared to how many DA2 reuses.

This is LOGHAIN we are talking about, the bloody HERO OF RIVER DANE, not some random unknown party member!

And you had moments like that in DAII as well.

Varric persuading you out of tight spots, thus preventing certain battles.

Bethany/Anders saving you from slitting your own throat if you are not a mage.

Anders/Merrill checking a certain someone for possession if you ask them to.

And many more!

If you bring them, of course. Some of these moments are hilarious!

I have never disagreed re: The enviroments.

As for the corpses at Fenris' place...I can imagine that they are squatters/hunters he killed.

Modifié par Persephone, 19 avril 2011 - 01:49 .

[MorrigansLove]

Dubya75 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
As for corpses, couldn't care less.

You don't care about anything beyond making DA2 not look like a failure.

Remember what I said about extremes, Bobby dear?

Do NOT presume you know anything about me or my motivations.

Do NOT give me the "You'd luff DAII no matter what" nonsense.

And do NOT get personal with me. We are discussing a game, not your mind reading abilities.

You typed it not me.

I don't need to presume anything, I already know why you connect so personally with the DA2 story. What you fail to realise is that without those personal experiences, the DA2 story will not have the same effect on others.

I could dig through other threads for other examples of you not caring, but frankly this is not worth the effort.

It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

And Bob gets knocked out in the third round! Ding-ding-ding!

That is extremely immature, Dubya. Why can't we argue in a civilised manner without people like you pissing people off?

[Rockpopple]

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

[AkiKishi]

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

[Boiny Bunny]

Hehe, yes Loghain was a fairly important and interesting character in the end.
My post doesn't really refer to his importance though.  It's more a minor oversight in the programming of the quest - probably working under the assumption that the majority of players would not recruit Loghain, and of those that did, the majority would have finished that quest by then.

But yes, there were some fantastic context sensitive moments in DA2 if you had the right party member to get you out of a nasty situation.

I guess the point I was making was about the complexity of the programming.  When one of these events occurs in DA2, it simply checks 1 flag (is X in your party) then responds in a binary manner (if YES, do Y, if NO, do Z).  Origins does something similar, but in many of those circumstances, allows for a different result for each member of the party, and in some more exceptional cases, a differing result for many different permutations of 2 party members.

Because of this, when there is a minor bug in one of these Origins quests (like the one you mentioned where the game fails to recognise you have Loghain in your party but are stealing Loghains crown), it is a lot more excusable than when a similar issue occurs in DA2.

Still, over time hopefully most of these such bugs in DA2 will be removed via patches.  It's a shame they're done with DA:O patches, but I guess modders have already done most of the things which should have been addressed. 

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 19 avril 2011 - 02:04 .

[MorrigansLove]

Rockpopple wrote...

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

[Dubya75]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

And your whining does? I see...

Modifié par Dubya75, 19 avril 2011 - 02:11 .

[MorrigansLove]

Dubya75 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

And your whining does? I see...

You see nothing.

[Persephone]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

I guess the point I was making was about the complexity of the programming.  When one of these events occurs in DA2, it simply checks 1 flag (is X in your party) then responds in a binary manner (if YES, do Y, if NO, do Z).  Origins does something similar, but in many of those circumstances, allows for a different result for each member of the party, and in some more exceptional cases, a differing result for many different permutations of 2 party members.

Because of this, when there is a minor bug in one of these Origins quests (like the one you mentioned where the game fails to recognise you have Loghain in your party but are stealing Loghains crown), it is a lot more excusable than when a similar issue occurs in DA2.

Still, over time hopefully most of these such bugs in DA2 will be removed via patches.  It's a shame they're done with DA:O patches, but I guess modders have already done most of the things which should have been addressed. 

I don't see the difference. If you ask Anders to check X for possession, he'll do it differently than Merrill. Bethany will straight out say she doesn't know how, making it impossible to tell Y that X is not possessed. Same goes for the other instances where more than one party member can get involved.

And to me it's not a lot more excuseable, it's just as sloppy and should not happen.

Agree re: the patches

[Dubya75]

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

a game is as good or as bad as experienced by any individual. For me it's an excellent game. For others it's the worst game ever.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

[drvaughn1999]

Agreed to agree to disagree

[AkiKishi]

Persephone wrote...
It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

That depends from where you are looking.

Claiming not to care and still defending the game though. I see that as rather irresponsible to anyone thinking of buying the game.

The flaws are there whether you choose to ignore them or not is irrelevent to that.

Fact - The bodies in Fenris mansion never disapear.
Opinion - Persephone does not care.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 avril 2011 - 02:18 .

[MorrigansLove]

Dubya75 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

a game is as good or as bad as experienced by any individual. For me it's an excellent game. For others it's the worst game ever.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Whoever says it's the worst game EVARRR, is a moron. It's a really good game, but It could have been GREAT and even a contender for Game of the Year.

[Dubya75]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

And your whining does? I see...

You see nothing.

That last statement plus your signature really does not give the impression that you are interested in anyone else's opinion but your own. If you want to call me immature, go right ahead. It won't carry much weight I'm afraid.

[MorrigansLove]

Dubya75 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

In all fairness, Bob was asking for it. ;P

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

And your whining does? I see...

You see nothing.

That last statement plus your signature really does not give the impression that you are interested in anyone else's opinion but your own. If you want to call me immature, go right ahead. It won't carry much weight I'm afraid.

...

[Dubya75]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

a game is as good or as bad as experienced by any individual. For me it's an excellent game. For others it's the worst game ever.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Whoever says it's the worst game EVARRR, is a moron. It's a really good game, but It could have been GREAT and even a contender for Game of the Year.

You are about 10 seconds away from getting reported, so cut it out with the insults.

[MorrigansLove]

Dubya75 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It's an old principle that there is no story that everbody will connect to. None. Not even the greatest blockbuster will win over everyone, moot point.

Yes, there are some supposed flaws I do not care about. And there are some flaws in both games I do care about. And that's a problem how?

It's a moot point unless you are using it as comparitive, which is what you are doing. DA2 affected you deeply, thats' all that is worth. Its not a standard.

Because again you are using your personal likes/dislikes as some sort of universal measure.

Bodies not rotting being cleaned up when they should is bad immersion. By ignoring that you are just making it look like you have low standards

It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

a game is as good or as bad as experienced by any individual. For me it's an excellent game. For others it's the worst game ever.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree.

Whoever says it's the worst game EVARRR, is a moron. It's a really good game, but It could have been GREAT and even a contender for Game of the Year.

You are about 10 seconds away from getting reported, so cut it out with the insults.

Oooh, i'm shivering with fear.

[Cutlass Jack]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

In all fairness no post in the last two pages has been adding to the original discussion. (Which was a question so straightforward even I was forced to take time to answer it.)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 19 avril 2011 - 02:20 .

[Rockpopple]

I'm sensing some sexual tension here....