178 réponses à ce sujet

[Louis deGuerre]

This is why we can't have nice things

[AkiKishi]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Whoever says it's the worst game EVARRR, is a moron. It's a really good game, but It could have been GREAT and even a contender for Game of the Year.

This is where the facts vs opinion stuff comes in.

As objectiively as possible.

I enjoyed Alpha Protocol far more than DA2. But DA2 was overall a better game.
Alpha Protocol had far too many issues that could just not be ignored.

[MorrigansLove]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

In all fairness no post in the last two pages has been adding to the original discussion. (Which was a question so straightforward even I was forced to take time to answer it.)

You're right, CutlassJack. Finally a sophisticated forumite!

[MorrigansLove]

BobSmith101 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Whoever says it's the worst game EVARRR, is a moron. It's a really good game, but It could have been GREAT and even a contender for Game of the Year.

This is where the facts vs opinion stuff comes in.

As objectiively as possible.

I enjoyed Alpha Protocol far more than DA2. But DA2 was overall a better game.
Alpha Protocol had far too many issues that could just not be ignored.

Exactly!

[Cutlass Jack]

MorrigansLove wrote...

You're right, CutlassJack. Finally a sophisticated forumite!

Shh! You'll ruin my reputation!

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

That depends from where you are looking.

Claiming not to care and still defending the game though. I see that as rather irresponsible to anyone thinking of buying the game.

The flaws are there whether you choose to ignore them or not is irrelevent to that.

Fact - The bodies in Fenris mansion never disapear.
Opinion - Persephone does not care.

Don't avoid the question. Answer. Whose viewpoint is an infallible standard?

*Sigh* Twisting my words again. I do not care about some supposed flaws while I do care about other flaws. Like anyone else.

You think I have an agenda to get people to buy the game? Good grief, just because your lot bashed the game for a month to make sure the Sales suffer, does not mean I share the same mentality. GEEZ!

The flaws are mostly subjective, whether you can see that is irrelevAnt to that.

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

[AkiKishi]

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

[Persephone]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Yeah, but why do it? It doesn't even add to the discussion.

In all fairness no post in the last two pages has been adding to the original discussion. (Which was a question so straightforward even I was forced to take time to answer it.)

Good point, that. Maybe we really should get back on topic.

[Rockpopple]

To be fair to Bob, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are pretty much indefensible.

I love the game and I find many credible points to defend it on against people who might lie or be less-than-factual about. The state of Fenris' home during the 7 years or so (in game) isn't one of them.

I'll...I-I'll back away slowly now....

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Same thing as the party camp in DAO looking EXACTLY the same EVERYWHERE. Logic and RPGs obviously do not mix well. You can forgive one or both or none, based on what lets you "live" with DAO or DAII.

[Persephone]

Rockpopple wrote...

To be fair to Bob, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are pretty much indefensible.

I love the game and I find many credible points to defend it on against people who might lie or be less-than-factual about. The state of Fenris' home during the 7 years or so (in game) isn't one of them.

I'll...I-I'll back away slowly now....

Hey, I won't eat ya, you know?

There are just some more important things that I'd rather see fixed in both games than details like that.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...
It is a completely moot point because nobody speaks for everybody. I never said it was worth anything more than any other opinion. Don't confuse me with the people who say "DAII sucks and whoever disagrees is lying!" Or "Only a Biodrone, Biobot, fanboy, idiot could like DAII, that's a FACT!".

And question: Whose viewpoint IS a standard? 

Again, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are a small detail. (And they look pretty decomposed to me) I can pick dozens of details like that in ANY RPG and thus claim "Whoever likes this has low standards, hah!".

That depends from where you are looking.

Claiming not to care and still defending the game though. I see that as rather irresponsible to anyone thinking of buying the game.

The flaws are there whether you choose to ignore them or not is irrelevent to that.

Fact - The bodies in Fenris mansion never disapear.
Opinion - Persephone does not care.

Don't avoid the question. Answer. Whose viewpoint is an infallible standard?

*Sigh* Twisting my words again. I do not care about some supposed flaws while I do care about other flaws. Like anyone else.

You think I have an agenda to get people to buy the game? Good grief, just because your lot bashed the game for a month to make sure the Sales suffer, does not mean I share the same mentality. GEEZ!

The flaws are mostly subjective, whether you can see that is irrelevAnt to that.

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

Well, at least he could of cleaned up after himself. He's never going to win Hawke's heart by procrastinating, or anyone's, for that matter

That IS very true. The place is a bloody mess. (No pun intended) Varric and Aveline even commented on that in Act III.

[Dubya75]

Rockpopple wrote...

To be fair to Bob, the bodies in Fenris' mansion are pretty much indefensible.

I love the game and I find many credible points to defend it on against people who might lie or be less-than-factual about. The state of Fenris' home during the 7 years or so (in game) isn't one of them.

I'll...I-I'll back away slowly now....

Then we should really also complain about every single item in the game that remains in the same place for the duration of the game, such as Merrill's chairs or the barman standing in the exact same position in the Hanged Man. These are all just props. They're not meant to change all the time (or maybe the game mechanics should be enhanced for these things to change, fair enough that would be nice), but neither did they in Origins.
Getting back to the OP, it is really about the recycled environments which have been discussed in great detail, many times.

Modifié par Dubya75, 19 avril 2011 - 02:35 .

[AkiKishi]

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

It's immersion breaking, it's also indicative of the overall lazy attitude of DA2. It's the little touches that seperate AAA games from everything else.

There are plenty of game breaking issues. But that's more for the tech forums.

[Dubya75]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

It's immersion breaking, it's also indicative of the overall lazy attitude of DA2. It's the little touches that seperate AAA games from everything else.

There are plenty of game breaking issues. But that's more for the tech forums.

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

[Persephone]

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

It's immersion breaking, it's also indicative of the overall lazy attitude of DA2. It's the little touches that seperate AAA games from everything else.

There are plenty of game breaking issues. But that's more for the tech forums.

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

Because Origins is sacrosanct, awezum and aw soooooo epic. Didn't ya know?

Double standards. Gotta love 'em.

Plenty of game breaking issues?

I encountered way less than in unmodded Origins.

[Rockpopple]

@ Persephone - Oh I'm not afraid of you (Take that in a good way... Oh Maker, forget I said anything). You and Bob just seem to have a thing going and I don't want to interfere overmuch.

@ Dubya75 - Hmm... I didn't really notice any of that. Or let's just say, I noticed the bodies in Fenris' mansion a lot more. I could auto-rationalize why characters were standing in the same place time and time again. I have, after-all, played video games all my life. I know how things go.

But Fenris' mansion, those were bodies. They'd stink after a while. I knew that. And I knew that large periods of time were flying by, because Fenris always mentioned it while at his place. So it was more in the front of my mind than in the back.

@ Bob - I'll give you that it was immersion-breaking, but I didn't see it as a lazy-attitude. I saw it as stuff they wish they could have done better but couldn't, for whatever reason. As Persephone has pointed out, I saw the same stuff in Origins. I didn't call the devs lazy at the time for it either. There's a lot of things put up on the whiteboard that never get crossed out. Just how things go.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 19 avril 2011 - 02:41 .

[AkiKishi]

Dubya75 wrote...

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

Short answer ? Origins was a game about moving to other locations.

[Persephone]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

Short answer ? Origins was a game about moving to other locations.

*Headdesk*

[Persephone]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Persephone - Oh I'm not afraid of you (Take that in a good way... Oh Maker, forget I said anything). You and Bob just seem to have a thing going and I don't want to interfere overmuch.

Bob!!! They found out about us!!!!!!

[drvaughn1999]

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

It's immersion breaking, it's also indicative of the overall lazy attitude of DA2. It's the little touches that seperate AAA games from everything else.

There are plenty of game breaking issues. But that's more for the tech forums.

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

I believe it was, we need to review the old forums from DA:O to be sure.

[MorrigansLove]

drvaughn1999 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fact: The bodies in Fenris' mansion do not magically disappear.
Opinion: Persephone thinks these are hunters/intruders Fenris killed

So what?

That just happen to look exactly the same and just happen to have fallen in the same posistion?

There is no answer to logic like that.Whatever lets you "live" with DA2 I guess.

Not exactly game breaking is it?

It's immersion breaking, it's also indicative of the overall lazy attitude of DA2. It's the little touches that seperate AAA games from everything else.

There are plenty of game breaking issues. But that's more for the tech forums.

But how come this was not an issue for anyone in Origins? 

I believe it was, we need to review the old forums from DA:O to be sure.

I guess they were oblivious to the most significant flaws in origins.

[Cutlass Jack]

For the record, those bodies come factory equipped at all Evil Manors, not just Fenris.' They weren't even killed during his quest.

They're popular by the Evil Elite to discourage thieves, tax collectors, and 'Andraste's Seekers' Missionaries. Unfortunately they're not as effective at discouraging Cookie selling Tranquil.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 19 avril 2011 - 02:46 .