99 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

Why? because ammo is not a power; it's an option you switch on for a gun, nothing more, nothing less. Why should an Engineer not have access to using a different sort of ammo and stuck with none? Why should an Infiltrator not be able to use Incendiary ammo but only Cryo and Disruptor? I really hope the devs change this for ME3.

[Kronner]

Because obviously that was a gameplay decision, and it was not based on what makes sense*. Whether they change it for ME3 or not..I couldn't care less about this particular thing tbh.
If they do change this, they better fix cryo+biotics combo bugs though.

*another example is that Adept/Engineer/Sentinel are stuck with measly SMG until DCS..which makes no sense, considering Shepard is N7 Marine. They changed that in ME3, I like that.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 avril 2011 - 09:43 .

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

Because obviously that was a gameplay decision, and it was not based on what makes sense*. Whether they change it for ME3 or not..I couldn't care less about this particular thing tbh.
If they do change this, they better fix cryo+biotics combo bugs though.

*another example is that Adept/Engineer/Sentinel are stuck with measly SMG until DCS..which makes no sense, considering Shepard is N7 Marine. They changed that in ME3, I like that.

I do care because the CC ammo powers are very useful. These days on ME2 I just mod them in. I can understand combat classes using ammo powers more efficiently in a way but not having them at all...sucks.

[Waltzingbear]

This is obviously a decision made from a gameplay balancing point of view. If every class could use every ammo type a Soldier for example would be even less unique than it is now.

I would much prefer to have gameplay refining at the expense of logic (considering it's not completely ridiculous).

[Stardusk78]

Waltzingbear wrote...

This is obviously a decision made from a gameplay balancing point of view. If every class could use every ammo type a Soldier for example would be even less unique than it is now.

I would much prefer to have gameplay refining at the expense of logic (considering it's not completely ridiculous).

Sure, but a lot of it is random; Infiltrators can use Incinerate but not Incendiary? What was the motive for this decision?

[AlexMBrennan]

*another example is that Adept/Engineer/Sentinel are stuck with measly SMG until DCS..which makes no sense, considering Shepard is N7 Marine. They changed that in ME3, I like that.

Is it? Do Marine pilots or tank crew carry assault rifles or do they stick with sufficiently compact guns to allow them to get the job done - isn't that the whole point of carbines and the personal defence weapon idea?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 19 avril 2011 - 10:51 .

[Kronner]

Is Shepard a pilot or a tank commander? No. (S)He's infantryman. A foot soldier.

If Shepard used a futuristic tank on a mission, SMG would be good enough, lol.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 avril 2011 - 11:21 .

[Sparrow44]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Waltzingbear wrote...

This is obviously a decision made from a gameplay balancing point of view. If every class could use every ammo type a Soldier for example would be even less unique than it is now.

I would much prefer to have gameplay refining at the expense of logic (considering it's not completely ridiculous).

Sure, but a lot of it is random; Infiltrators can use Incinerate but not Incendiary? What was the motive for this decision?

If the Infiltrator got Incendiary ammo as well as the other 2 ammo powers, then it would simply be a Soldier w/Cloak and Hacking thrown in.

Instead they got Incinerate which gets bonuses from tech upgrades, which ammo doesn't. Plus Incendiary and Incinerate are a bit stupid on a 'stealth' class anyway.

[Stardusk78]

Sparroww wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Waltzingbear wrote...

This is obviously a decision made from a gameplay balancing point of view. If every class could use every ammo type a Soldier for example would be even less unique than it is now.

I would much prefer to have gameplay refining at the expense of logic (considering it's not completely ridiculous).

Sure, but a lot of it is random; Infiltrators can use Incinerate but not Incendiary? What was the motive for this decision?

If the Infiltrator got Incendiary ammo as well as the other 2 ammo powers, then it would simply be a Soldier w/Cloak and Hacking thrown in.

Instead they got Incinerate which gets bonuses from tech upgrades, which ammo doesn't. Plus Incendiary and Incinerate are a bit stupid on a 'stealth' class anyway.

Having Inferno ammo on an Infiltrator would be great for CQC. I wouldn't be against keeping unique Ammo powers to certain classes but it would be nice if all classes had access.

I am also the first to admit that I am an Inferno Ammo ****...and you can quote me on that.

Modifié par Stardusk78, 19 avril 2011 - 12:10 .

[termokanden]

You are not alone. I love Inferno Ammo

For a sniper specialized infiltrator, I think Warp Ammo makes the most sense though. Makes it easier to one-shot things, particularly Collectors.

[turian councilor Knockout]

Okay, ammo powers should continue to be restricted for combat oriented classes like Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator since they all are trained in combat, it would'nt feel right if Adepts, Sentinels and Engineers uses ammo powers since whole point with playing them is to rely more on their class powers than with gunfire and if i wanted to use my gun i'd pick soldier and not caster classes.

[Stardusk78]

termokanden wrote...

You are not alone. I love Inferno Ammo

For a sniper specialized infiltrator, I think Warp Ammo makes the most sense though. Makes it easier to one-shot things, particularly Collectors.

True but to be honest I like the Viper on the Infiltrator+Assassin (60%) time dilation...you can line up head shots really well and Inferno is amazing on the Viper.

[Stardusk78]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Okay, ammo powers should continue to be restricted for combat oriented classes like Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator since they all are trained in combat, it would'nt feel right if Adepts, Sentinels and Engineers uses ammo powers since whole point with playing them is to rely more on their class powers than with gunfire and if i wanted to use my gun i'd pick soldier and not caster classes.

That's fine BUT in that case Casters should have much better cooldowns than Combat classes.

Now the average is 20% compared to 9%/15%; I think Casters should have a 40% cooldown, keep global cooldown but allow casters to use their primary weapons (their biotic/tech skills) more frequently.

[turian councilor Knockout]

Stardusk78 wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Okay, ammo powers should continue to be restricted for combat oriented classes like Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator since they all are trained in combat, it would'nt feel right if Adepts, Sentinels and Engineers uses ammo powers since whole point with playing them is to rely more on their class powers than with gunfire and if i wanted to use my gun i'd pick soldier and not caster classes.

That's fine BUT in that case Casters should have much better cooldowns than Combat classes.

Now the average is 20% compared to 9%/15%; I think Casters should have a 40% cooldown, keep global cooldown but allow casters to use their primary weapons (their biotic/tech skills) more frequently.

Yes, i agree that lower cooldowns would  be great to make caster classes feel like casters i'm not saying that guns should'n t be used but it would be nice if  for example Adepts could use their powers more frequently rather then be a liabilty if you don't use your gun.

[lazuli]

Kronner wrote...

Because obviously that was a gameplay decision, and it was not based on what makes sense*. Whether they change it for ME3 or not..I couldn't care less about this particular thing tbh.
If they do change this, they better fix cryo+biotics combo bugs though.

*another example is that Adept/Engineer/Sentinel are stuck with measly SMG until DCS..which makes no sense, considering Shepard is N7 Marine. They changed that in ME3, I like that.

I agree that it's a gameplay decision.  It looks like the weapon situation will be partially resolved.  I'm looking forward to rolling with a shotgun Adept right off the bat.

[Stardusk78]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Okay, ammo powers should continue to be restricted for combat oriented classes like Soldier, Vanguard and Infiltrator since they all are trained in combat, it would'nt feel right if Adepts, Sentinels and Engineers uses ammo powers since whole point with playing them is to rely more on their class powers than with gunfire and if i wanted to use my gun i'd pick soldier and not caster classes.

That's fine BUT in that case Casters should have much better cooldowns than Combat classes.

Now the average is 20% compared to 9%/15%; I think Casters should have a 40% cooldown, keep global cooldown but allow casters to use their primary weapons (their biotic/tech skills) more frequently.

Yes, i agree that lower cooldowns would  be great to make caster classes feel like casters i'm not saying that guns should'n t be used but it would be nice if  for example Adepts could use their powers more frequently rather then be a liabilty if you don't use your gun.

Yes, this is the only solution I see for Engineers and Adepts. Guns are nice but they should not be their bread and butter.

[Waltzingbear]

They are not exactly so.. I would say that the ratio of the biotics-guns effectiveness in how I play an Adept is about 60%-40%. Bullets are not the majority of what bring enemies down, but it is also obviously very hard to do without them.

I would hate if the Adept could chain-cast biotics and do just as well without firing at all. Adept shouldn't be a mage or even a jedi.

[Stardusk78]

Waltzingbear wrote...

They are not exactly so.. I would say that the ratio of the biotics-guns effectiveness in how I play an Adept is about 60%-40%. Bullets are not the majority of what bring enemies down, but it is also obviously very hard to do without them.

I would hate if the Adept could chain-cast biotics and do just as well without firing at all. Adept shouldn't be a mage or even a jedi.

Cooldowns should be much lower for casters in any event.

The Adept is not gimped but if you look at Boz's videos a lot of his effectiveness stems from the Mattock or the GPS; his powers should be more effective than the weapons.

[Waltzingbear]

I don't think the solution is CD reduction- that would cause you to spam biotic powers every 1.5-3 seconds.
Maybe damage or duration increase?
I also don't think Adepts are gimped as they stand now. I like the balance; if you change one thing you'd have to lower another.

Boz seems very strong because of the GPS and Mattock. Those weapons are too powerful in any situation and a lot of people call them cheesy. You shouldn't compare them to Adept's powers; it would be like having a DLC that grants an armor piece with 15% damage 15% duration increase and comparing that to the Soldier's normal guns.

Modifié par Waltzingbear, 19 avril 2011 - 01:41 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Waltzingbear wrote...

They are not exactly so.. I would say that the ratio of the biotics-guns effectiveness in how I play an Adept is about 60%-40%. Bullets are not the majority of what bring enemies down, but it is also obviously very hard to do without them.

I would hate if the Adept could chain-cast biotics and do just as well without firing at all. Adept shouldn't be a mage or even a jedi.

No one have talked about being able to chain cast or solely rely on biotics but it is stupid that cooldowns are longer than for example Soldier AR which you can use almost immediately after , of course guns will and should be part of Adept and every caster gameplay but not so much that it feels like you use more gunfire then Tech/Biotic which is meant to be what the casters are most proficient in.

[Waltzingbear]

I really don't feel that way. I'm very satisfied with the Adept; a Soldier almost has no options besides using guns and toying with a krogan like only an Adept can is much better than what an Infiltrator can do.

[turian councilor Knockout]

Waltzingbear wrote...

I don't think the solution is CD reduction- that would cause you to spam biotic powers every 1.5-3 seconds.
Maybe damage or duration increase?
I also don't think Adepts are gimped as they stand now. I like the balance; if you change one thing you'd have to lower another.
.

Well, if they increase power duration  it will not make you use guns less, it's more likely that it will lead to how powers worked in ME 1 where warp deals damage over time and singularity hold enemies suspended in air longer than in ME 2 and thats not the sort of gameplay i want in ME 3 and you would still be forced to use your gun as much as you do now and i don't want to feel OP which a damage increase most likely will lead to and thats why cooldown reduction is likely the best choice ( i don't want to change the combat only the feeling that you're playing a caster and not a soldier with biotics).

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 19 avril 2011 - 01:55 .

[Waltzingbear]

Those are valid points as well. That's why balancing results in an equilibrium.

PS.
I like our whole time-gap letter relationship; are you on Neptune?

[Relix28]

Imo, they should make different ammo types as weapon mods and not as actual powers that you lvl up in your skill tree. They should also give Soldier more combat powers. I really missed weapon specific powers like Assassination and Carnage. I think something like that would make a Soldier much more interesting than ammo "powers".

[jamesp81]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

*another example is that Adept/Engineer/Sentinel are stuck with measly SMG until DCS..which makes no sense, considering Shepard is N7 Marine. They changed that in ME3, I like that.

Is it? Do Marine pilots or tank crew carry assault rifles or do they stick with sufficiently compact guns to allow them to get the job done - isn't that the whole point of carbines and the personal defence weapon idea?

"Every Marine is a rifleman" is not something they came up with for Ash to say in ME1 to sound cool.  That's a real doctrine exercised today by the US Marine Corps.  EVERY Marine is required to qualify as a rifleman regardless of his specific job, whether that's infantry or not.  Pilots, truck drivers, tank crews, artillerymen, cooks, doctors, nurses, mechanics, EVERYONE in the Marines qualifies with a service rifle, from the Commandant himself on down to the lowly private.  Some may not carry a rifle daily due to their jobs, but they are all trained to use one.