119 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

berelinde wrote...

is selfish to the point of absurdity.

I thought that described anyone on the team apart from Aveline and Varric.

And Merrill. She and Aveline are self-absorbed, but not selfish. Anders and Isabela are extremely selfish. Fenris is eh.

[Herr Uhl]

Beerfish wrote...

So what ever happens to Sebs twin brother Seneshal Bran in the end? In my 1st play through I thought he was the guy that got neck snapped by the Qunari after the beheading of the Viscount but I'm pretty sure I was mistaken.

He is around grumbling in act 3, you can walk up and talk to him and he makes an Udina reference.

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

Hm, I thought Sebastian was a nice guy. Polite, and such. Not an opinionated extremist. Yeah, he wants the blood of the people who murdered his family and the blood of the person (abomination) who murdered someone he cares for like family (among others), but I don't see either of those as being particularly unreasonable.

I didn't like Sebestian because Varric is so much better at being an archer-rogue both tactically and simply as a better (and more interesting character) that I left Seb home most of the time.  You can still (easily) max out Seb's Friendship/Rivalry even if you do the bare minimum and his quests give a LOT of gold.

As for being a moderate, no he's not.  Seb openly talks about and threatens to turn in every apostate in Hawke's group over to the Templars if he and Fenris as together.  Fenris of all people talks him out of that particular idiocy.

-Polaris

[Heather Cline]

I wasn't a fan of Sebastian in Act 3 end scene. His demand that I kill Anders or he would bring an army against me just because I spared him was a bit much. If Sebastian wanted Anders dead so bad he should have done it himself instead of forcing Hawke to make the decision. That's just my personal opinion. Don't force someone else to do your dirty work.

[TobiTobsen]

IanPolaris wrote...

Filament wrote...

Hm, I thought Sebastian was a nice guy. Polite, and such. Not an opinionated extremist. Yeah, he wants the blood of the people who murdered his family and the blood of the person (abomination) who murdered someone he cares for like family (among others), but I don't see either of those as being particularly unreasonable.

I didn't like Sebestian because Varric is so much better at being an archer-rogue both tactically and simply as a better (and more interesting character) that I left Seb home most of the time.  You can still (easily) max out Seb's Friendship/Rivalry even if you do the bare minimum and his quests give a LOT of gold.

As for being a moderate, no he's not.  Seb openly talks about and threatens to turn in every apostate in Hawke's group over to the Templars if he and Fenris as together.  Fenris of all people talks him out of that particular idiocy.

-Polaris

/signed

It's just good that Sebastians second name is "Apathy". The guy couldn't do anything without nailing a plea for help to the chantry board.

"Searching people who will rat out my companions. I'll await you in the chantry where I flog myself daily to not become a male Isabela again. REVENGE FOR STARKHAVEN!!! Oh sorry... sometimes my mood swings get the better of me"

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 19 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[The Angry One]

The only part of Sebastian I find irredeemable is that he won't kill Anders himself.
If you feel that strongly about what Anders did, then kill him. Don't expect Hawke will always be your executioner for hire and throw a hissy fit when she doesn't!

IanPolaris wrote...


As for being a moderate, no he's not.  Seb openly talks about and threatens to turn in every apostate in Hawke's group over to the Templars if he and Fenris as together.  Fenris of all people talks him out of that particular idiocy.

I always liked Fenris' final word on that.
"You want to turn them in? You take it up with Hawke."

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 avril 2011 - 05:43 .

[Camenae]

Yep. As wishy-washy as Alistair was, he had no qualms about killing Loghain himself. His conviction was limited to whining for the Warden to kill Loghain.

As I just watched/been re-reading A Game of Thrones, this quote was fresh on my mind during the Act III scene:
"If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

[Icy Magebane]

Having a "you do it then," or "he's all yours," option followed by Sebastian headshotting Anders with an arrow would have been sweet. Oh well.

Edit:  I just want to point out that fans would be going crazy if Sebastian killed Anders without their consent... so it's not like you really want that option.  Now, if there was some kind of "interrupt" before Sebastian took the shot, then that would probably satisfy people.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 avril 2011 - 05:51 .

[Elessie]

The Angry One wrote...

The only part of Sebastian I find irredeemable is that he won't kill Anders himself.
If you feel that strongly about what Anders did, then kill him. Don't expect Hawke will always be your executioner for hire and throw a hissy fit when she doesn't!

So much this.  Why can't he offer to step up like Fenris during the magistrate's son quest?

[Wulfram]

IanPolaris wrote...

As for being a moderate, no he's not.  Seb openly talks about and threatens to turn in every apostate in Hawke's group over to the Templars if he and Fenris as together.  Fenris of all people talks him out of that particular idiocy.

-Polaris

When people want to kill or tranquil every mage, people who just want to lock them up are moderates.  Particularly if they don't act on it.  And especially if they're talking about a blood mage and an abomination.

At least he can accept that the Act of Annulment is worth fighting against

[Herr Uhl]

Elessie wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The only part of Sebastian I find irredeemable is that he won't kill Anders himself.
If you feel that strongly about what Anders did, then kill him. Don't expect Hawke will always be your executioner for hire and throw a hissy fit when she doesn't!

So much this.  Why can't he offer to step up like Fenris during the magistrate's son quest?

He didn't do that for me.

[Maria Caliban]

Icy Magebane wrote...
I just want to point out that fans would be going crazy if Sebastian killed Anders without their consent...

Let the fans go crazy then. I don't recall Anders getting my consent prior to his little unibomber stunt.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...
I just want to point out that fans would be going crazy if Sebastian killed Anders without their consent...

Let the fans go crazy then. I don't recall Anders getting my consent prior to his little unibomber stunt.

Hell I recall everyone praising Varric for shooting DuPuis in the throat without their consent.
Granted, nobody likes DuPuis and Varric's chest hair apparently generates opium, but still.

[hoorayforicecream]

The only issue I'd see with not recruiting Sebastian is that some of the best gear in the game comes from his quests. Missing out on those items can make things more difficult in Nightmare mode.

I never thought of Sebastian's banter about possibly turning in apostates as a threat. Just listening to it and the tones involved made him sound conflicted about it, which matches his character. Sebastian's always been confused... his entire character is based on the dilemma of whether he should be the prince of Starkhaven or the chantry brother.

Sebastian's threatening voice is very distinct, you can hear it clearly if Hawke doesn't kill Anders at the end of Act 3.

[Icy Magebane]

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...
I just want to point out that fans would be going crazy if Sebastian killed Anders without their consent...

Let the fans go crazy then. I don't recall Anders getting my consent prior to his little unibomber stunt.

Hell I recall everyone praising Varric for shooting DuPuis in the throat without their consent.
Granted, nobody likes DuPuis and Varric's chest hair apparently generates opium, but still.

Exactly.  I've seen way too many people defending Anders here to think they'd find this acceptable.  A DLC/extra character kills their lover or friend?  What happens if you don't have the DLC?  Meredith kills him right then and there?  Yeah, I doubt that would work...  Bioware seems to be very interested in keeping the fans of certain characters happy, for good or ill.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[nos_astra]

Camenae wrote...
As I just watched/been re-reading A Game of Thrones, this quote was fresh on my mind during the Act III scene:
"If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

Same could be said for Hawke then: If you believe Anders should die, do it yourself. Don't stand there trying to wash your hands of a decision that is yours.

TobiTobsen wrote...
It's just good that Sebastians second nameis "Apathy". The guy couldn't do anything without nailing a plea for help to the chantry board.

"Searching people who will rat out my companions. I'll await you in the chantry where I flog myself daily to not become a male Isabela again. REVENGE FOR STARKHAVEN!!! Oh sorry... sometimes my mood swings get the better of me"

I believe, he's only using the Chanter's board once as an attempt to seek vengeance while still honoring his vows.
However, he's breaking them three years later when he's leaving with Hawke to seek out the Harimanns. When he's not hanging out with Hawke he's travelling extensively, trying to gather support for a military campaign to retake Starkhaven.
Later during Questioning Beliefs he's asking Elthina to accept him back as a brother. It takes him years to figure out what he actually wants, but he's not simply waiting.

It's true, he's wary of mages, but that's to be expected and the standard mindset in the part of Thedas known to us. He wants you to respect the law and show mercy on innocents, if you can.

Of course, you wouldn't know that.

Modifié par klarabella, 19 avril 2011 - 06:14 .

[Elessie]

Icy Magebane wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...
I just want to point out that fans would be going crazy if Sebastian killed Anders without their consent...

Let the fans go crazy then. I don't recall Anders getting my consent prior to his little unibomber stunt.

Hell I recall everyone praising Varric for shooting DuPuis in the throat without their consent.
Granted, nobody likes DuPuis and Varric's chest hair apparently generates opium, but still.

Exactly.  I've seen way too many people defending Anders here to think they'd find this acceptable.  A DLC/extra character kills their lover or friend?  What happens if you don't have the DLC?  Meredith kills him right then and there?  Yeah, I doubt that would work...  Bioware seems to be very interested in keeping the fans of certain characters happy, for good or ill.

It doesn't even need to be without your consent.  It could be a companion input option like in Magistrate's Orders.

[TobiTobsen]

klarabella wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...
It's just good that Sebastians second nameis "Apathy". The guy couldn't do anything without nailing a plea for help to the chantry board.

"Searching people who will rat out my companions. I'll await you in the chantry where I flog myself daily to not become a male Isabela again. REVENGE FOR STARKHAVEN!!! Oh sorry... sometimes my mood swings get the better of me"

I believe, he's only using the Chanter's board once as an attempt to seek vengeance while still honoring his vows.
However, he's breaking them three years later when he's leaving with Hawke to seek out the Harimanns. When he's not hanging out with Hawke he's travelling extensively, trying to gather support for a military campaign to retake Starkhaven.
Later during Questioning Beliefs he's asking Elthina to accept him back as a brother. It takes him years to figure out what he actually wants, but he's not simply waiting.

It's true, he's wary of mages, but that's to be expected and the standard mindset in the part of Thedas known to us. He wants you to respect the law and show mercy on innocents, if you can.

Of course, you wouldn't know that.

I'm not quite sure if you're mocking me with the last sentence.

He doesn't seem to be very effective in what he does. After seven years his... uh... what was it.... cousin? is still the ruler of Starkhaven and Sebastian is still in Kirkwall, trying to tell me that everything good comes from the Maker and everything bad is totally the fault of the humans. I'm not really fond of that attitude, but I can live with that.

The point where he really earned my disfavour was in the questline where Leandra get's kidnapped. Every companion understands it when I use blood magic to save my mother. Even Fenris, Anders and Aveline. The only one who actually gets rivalry from that is Sebastian. What the hell does he think I should do? Run through Lowtown at night, calling Leandras name? And that after I helped him with his own family... "problems". He of all people should understand that Hawke doesn't want to find his mothers bones somewhere in the gutter.

[Icy Magebane]

Blood Magic is forbidden.

Every companion has some kind of hang-up that can seem annoying... like when you gain rivalry with Aveline whenever you ask for money during a quest. Hell, I gained rivalry with Fenris for telling Thrask I would keep his daughter's secret (her being a mage and abomination). Boom, +5 rivalry. The only other option was to extort him for gold, and there's no way in hell I was doing that.

@Elessie:  In my original post, I mentioned that it would have been cool if there was a dialogue involving Sebastian being the one to kill Anders.  I was just saying in the line that got quoted that it wouldn't go over well if he did it automatically.  I think that having the dialouge with Sebastian, saying "yea" or "nay," then having him try to kill Anders regardless (and then having Hawke interrupt or allow it) would be ideal.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 19 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[Sammyjb]

Camenae wrote...

Yep. As wishy-washy as Alistair was, he had no qualms about killing Loghain himself. His conviction was limited to whining for the Warden to kill Loghain.

As I just watched/been re-reading A Game of Thrones, this quote was fresh on my mind during the Act III scene:
"If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

I believe the quote from the TV premiere was "The man who passes the sentence must be willing to swing the sword."

[TEWR]

I really just wanted to smack Sebastian for saying he would return and raze Kirkwall to the ground for me letting Anders live.

I also wanted to quote Elthina, "Death is never justice"

He's my least favorite character, but that doesn't really mean much, as I don't hate him. I enjoyed his character all the way up until he said he would burn Kirkwall as well as kill Anders. I can understand the want for vengeance against... .well.... Vengeance, but I really would have liked to be able to quote Elthina on that.

There didn't have to be an immediate effect, but maybe in the DLC regarding Sebastian that's coming up (a dev said a while back his story isn't over yet) it would've influence him in some way.

[_purifico_]

highcastle wrote...

Cell1e wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Gotta admit it, I'm not crazy about Sebastian. He's the third most handsome human in the game, his voice is made of sex, and he's got a few funny banters where he plays the straight line to others' humor, but he just doesn't do it for me. He has less of a sense of humor than Fenris and is selfish to the point of absurdity. His endgame hysterics detract from the tragedy of the Act 3 surprise, at least in my opinion.

If I ever start another DA2 game, I will uninstall the DLC, but for this playthrough, I have had to content myself with ignoring his quests and never actually recruiting him into the party.

Since he has never been in the party, will he still appear in the Act 3 Chantry scene? Theoretically, he would still be in the Chantry at the time. Or will he show up outside anyway to make selfish demands of my PC?

Omg I totally agree! Sebastion is such eye candy that I bought the DLC straightaway, but he is such a selfish and self absorbed person who totally annoys me that I absolutely wish I had never bought him now! For a guy so obsessed with the chantry and the Maker he doesnt hesitate to call for the blood of his enemies and Anders, all the while agonising about where his true place is. 'Should I be a privelged and sheltered prince or should I be a priveleged and sheltered Chantry boy? Oh woe is me, my life is so hard!'

Oh my gosh his pretty boy looks soon get tiresome indeed. Sebastion is my least favourite character!

He's a hypocrite for sure, but to be fair, just about all of the companions are. Anders (who I adore) condemns blood mages and templars, but he's willing to kill innocents to accomplish his goals. Fenris abhors slavery, but he's willing to commit mages to the Gallows on account of abuses he suffered at the hands of others. Merrill thinks Anders was foolish to consort with a spirit, but she's doing the same damn thing.

Really, this is a typical human reaction. We tend to think we're stronger than everyone else, that we'll succeed on account of our inner strength while those around us fail because of inner weaknesses. And if we fail, then it's because of circumstances beyond our control. We're almost natural hypocrites. It's also refreshing to see characters with a strong mix of flaws and virtues in these games. You can't accuse them of being shallow, anyway.

In Fenris' defence I can say that you can call him out on it and he will agree that he is a hypocrite and will join you to protect the mages from the templars in the final battle.

As for Sebastian, I've never noticed anything hypocritical about him.