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[Arrun]

 So I did at last finish my second playthrough, and, as you tend to pay a lot more attention to detail on a second runthrough, I noticed hints throughout the entire game at possible scenarios for DA3. Obviously, the main plot revolves around the Chantry VS Mages, but when you do the companion quest 'Faith' with Sebastian, when Leliana shows up, she said (can't remember the exact words) words to the effect of the Divine will crush the mage rebellion in Kirkwall and will begin a second Exalted March or Holy War. Cassandra is interrogating Varric the entire time and he says, 'you need the one man who can piece your precious Chantry back together.' [After Hawke invariably destroys it]

Additionally, if Alistair is King, when he visits Kirkwall from Denerim in Act 3, he hints that another War with Orlais is imminent. The Divine may be plotting, or may use the imminent conflict as a scapegoat to eradicate all magic, Hitler-esque style?  Furthermore, Sandal and Bodahn have been in both games thus far, so giving that Bodahn said he's heading to Orlais, it seems very likely DA3 will be set in Orlais? (Stinky cheeses ftw)

Side note: Sandal - the first dwarf mage who was made tranquil? What about when he complains an old women was laughing in his room at night - Flemeth? Is there an important connection between Sandal and Flemeth i've missed?

For me this all culminates when at the very end after meredith-laser-tron-model-1234 dies, and Leliana says to Cassandra, 'And?' to which Cassandra replies, 'Gone. Like the Warden.' and Leliana replies with, 'That is no coincidence.'  To me this screams a third installment featuring the Warden and Hawke as the only two people who can rebuild the Chantry (or maybe like in DA2, choose to undermine it), because if it is no coincidence, then it sounds as if giving they both 'mysteriously vanished', they will be returning together maybe?

I don't know, maybe I'm clutching at straws , but opinions?

PS: here's to hoping we can finally have another game with Morrigan because A) She was the best written character, and We need some closure after the 'closure' we recieved from Witch Hunt 

Modifié par Arrun, 19 avril 2011 - 03:54 .

[Forst1999]

Well, Orlais is a good bet for DA3. As you said, it is the centre of the chantry, a new war with Ferelden is possible and Bodahn and Sandal seem to be recurring (someone called them the R2 and 3PO of Dragon Age, which might fit).
But i doubt that Sandal is some kind of tranquil dwarven mage. He is not emotionially cut off, just a little "special". And having strange visions also is very un-tranquil. Flemeth is always a good guess when it is about scary old women, but that's nothing sure.
As for the disappearance of the Warden and Hawke... We have no clue what happened, but i guess they will have some role in the future. Flemeth could be involved, she knew both, and we have no idea what she is up to. I'm pretty sure, we will see Morrigan again, Bioware said they weren't done with her.
It all is clutching at straws until we know more, but that's the fun with open endings.

[Arrun]

Forst1999 wrote...

Well, Orlais is a good bet for DA3. As you said, it is the centre of the chantry, a new war with Ferelden is possible and Bodahn and Sandal seem to be recurring (someone called them the R2 and 3PO of Dragon Age, which might fit).
But i doubt that Sandal is some kind of tranquil dwarven mage. He is not emotionially cut off, just a little "special". And having strange visions also is very un-tranquil. Flemeth is always a good guess when it is about scary old women, but that's nothing sure.
As for the disappearance of the Warden and Hawke... We have no clue what happened, but i guess they will have some role in the future. Flemeth could be involved, she knew both, and we have no idea what she is up to. I'm pretty sure, we will see Morrigan again, Bioware said they weren't done with her.
It all is clutching at straws until we know more, but that's the fun with open endings.

Are you suggesting that Flemeth is involved with both of their dissappearances? She's 'done something' ?
Because to me, that could be a good bet, even though the Warden can defeat her, perhaps she forsees it happening, hence she hands Hawke the trinket to resummon her with Mharethari and Merril's assistance (which proves she is very possibly FAR more powerful than she made out to be in the battle with the Warden as a high dragon.
Yet she also offered the choice not to fight her and lie ... has anyone imported a save where the Warden decieves Morrigan about killing Flemeth and takes the deal she offers? Because if they have, in the Blightlands at the start, does Flemeth not ask Hawke to take the trinket to the Dalish? Ahhh confusing !

[Forst1999]

I guess it doesn't make a difference if the warden fights her or not. She fully expects the warden to "kill" her (the appointment she talks about), but even if he doesn't, she still is summoned to Sundermount. So she just made a precaution she didn't need. I can't tell first hand, because i always faught her (not a huge Morrigan fan, but body-stealing isn't something i can tolerate).

[theangryllama]

Arrun wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

Well, Orlais is a good bet for DA3. As you said, it is the centre of the chantry, a new war with Ferelden is possible and Bodahn and Sandal seem to be recurring (someone called them the R2 and 3PO of Dragon Age, which might fit).
But i doubt that Sandal is some kind of tranquil dwarven mage. He is not emotionially cut off, just a little "special". And having strange visions also is very un-tranquil. Flemeth is always a good guess when it is about scary old women, but that's nothing sure.
As for the disappearance of the Warden and Hawke... We have no clue what happened, but i guess they will have some role in the future. Flemeth could be involved, she knew both, and we have no idea what she is up to. I'm pretty sure, we will see Morrigan again, Bioware said they weren't done with her.
It all is clutching at straws until we know more, but that's the fun with open endings.

Are you suggesting that Flemeth is involved with both of their dissappearances? She's 'done something' ?
Because to me, that could be a good bet, even though the Warden can defeat her, perhaps she forsees it happening, hence she hands Hawke the trinket to resummon her with Mharethari and Merril's assistance (which proves she is very possibly FAR more powerful than she made out to be in the battle with the Warden as a high dragon.
Yet she also offered the choice not to fight her and lie ... has anyone imported a save where the Warden decieves Morrigan about killing Flemeth and takes the deal she offers? Because if they have, in the Blightlands at the start, does Flemeth not ask Hawke to take the trinket to the Dalish? Ahhh confusing !

I do know that when you meet flemeth in DA2 it is not long after ostagar just after she sets the warden on his/her way with the treaties. She gives hawke the amulet as an 'insurance policy' in case morrigan ends up convincing the warden to come back and kill flemeth. Hence why the flemeth on sundermount isn't sure whether or not the other version of her is alive or dead.

I doubt that is so much 'phenomanal cosmic powers' moreso just really really old and knows several tricks that were long since forgotten (as in i'm pretty sure some mages could learn to turn into dragons and store a piece of their essence but the knowledge was lost thousands of years prior)(combined with a seeming ability to at least glimpse fragments of the future and twist that to whatever goal it is she has cooking up in that cooky old head of hers.

[2taxidermy51]

hmm was thinking that what if Flemeth really isnt the big bad we tend to believe. She set both the warden and hawke in a way on certain paths but it was Morrigan that possibly took the warden away depending on how one plays "Witch Hunt". Not sure what Flemeth's plans could be since she herself claims to be the "fly in the ointment" and Morrigan is tripping up what Flemeth sets in motion.

I certainly got the hint that Orlais would play big role in the next game even as the games stomping ground since Bodahn and Sandal are headed that way. Also wasn't Morrigan or someone who looked like her reported to be in the Empresses court depending on how one played origins?

Another thing was the Anceint crypt thing where the idol was found any idea what that really was? It was before dwarves as one of the npc's states but when doing the Witch hunt dlc that Thaig was occupied by elves before the dwarves there could that be the case here? Or could it be the Black city? Who says the story about the darkspawn stuff chantry spews is accurate. Arrg.

Sorry thinking out loud again. I haven't had a chance to read all the codexs so my thoughts may be off kilter but it all just makes me eager to see how the story does eventually play out.

Modifié par 2taxidermy51, 19 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[Lenimph]

Arrun wrote...

 
Side note: Sandal - the first dwarf mage who was made tranquil? What about when he complains an old women was laughing in his room at night - Flemeth? Is there an important connection between Sandal and Flemeth i've missed?

 Flemeth was in my estate! 
"She's climbing in your windows snatchin your people up, trying to make em disappear so you need to hide your Wardens and your Hawkes" 

Modifié par Lenimph, 19 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[DreadMarshmallow]

Speaking of Sandal...

[Eternal Phoenix]

If Bioware manage to pull of the Warden and Hawke being in the same game...that would be awesome. When you think about it, it shouldn't be too hard to manage. 6 voices for the three races and two genders of each race. Heh. Elves and humans could even share the same voice.

It's just a matter of how it would be done. Would the player choose which character they want to be with the other fading into the background - waiting at the camp or keep - or could we have The Warden/Hawke in the party as well?

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 19 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[Arrun]

 to answer some posts: No, Flemeth is no ordinary mage who managed to re-discover dragon shapeshifting; she's supposedly thousands of years old, and is 'not even truly human' according to Morrigan in Witch Hunt. The elves refer to as Asha'Bellanar - is she possibly one of their Gods? The Dread Wolf?

The Lyrium idol: Lyrium is the essence of pure magic and emits a ringing sound (hence Justice's singing Lyrium ring in Awakening), so the purest lyrium emits a ringing sound so powerful it drives people into murderous insanity? I doubt the elves created the Primeval Thaig tbh, the architecture is dwarven, and only dwarves have any resistance to lyrium, which is why the other races don't live underground. Furthermore, there were golems down there (dwarven) and rock wraiths are supposedly dwarven legends. Meredith only resisted it because of her expert domination of lyrium through being a Templar, and even then it eventually destroys her. It seems to have the power to animate objects and created spectral golems, as well as grant people who can weild it, insane power?

Ahahahaha laughed so hard at the Lincoln Park Rapist reference !

I had never heard Sandal say that before, sounds like the Maker to me... i usually stop talking to him when he tells me to get him a salamander....

Modifié par Arrun, 19 avril 2011 - 09:36 .

[Arrun]

Elton John is dead wrote...

If Bioware manage to pull of the Warden and Hawke being in the same game...that would be awesome. When you think about it, it shouldn't be too hard to manage. 6 voices for the three races and two genders of each race. Heh. Elves and humans could even share the same voice.

It's just a matter of how it would be done. Would the player choose which character they want to be with the other fading into the background - waiting at the camp or keep - or could we have The Warden/Hawke in the party as well?

If i'm totally honest, I very simply want to play my warden .. if money's an issue, judging from the reaction to Origins when it was released, a voice actor didn't spoil anything, and besides, whenever I play DA2, those few reverntial reference to my Warden make him sound so powerful and important, and Hawke so small in comparison. If they managed to incorporate both, it would be, like a DA Fan's dream, but 2 words would probably spoil that idea:

Electronic Arts.

[highcastle]

I'm so not convinced Flemeth is the Big Bad of the series. I think there's much more to her than meets the eye, but I don't think she's pure evil. Actually, having anyone in this setting be pure evil would be a bit of a letdown after the gray-versus-gray world painted by DA2.

Orlais seems like the likeliest option for DA3, but that's what we thought for DA2, too. So I for one am not certain of anything. Tevinter also got quite a bit of mention throughout the game, and it's another place where the mages and Chantry have been going at it. And let's not forget the presence of the Qunari, who Fenris suggests are waiting for something (or at least have a purpose on Saharon keeping them from invading the rest of Thedas). There's a lot of balls up in the air right now and I can see the action shifting almost anywhere.

As for playing as the Warden versus Hawke...please no. Hawke or a new character. I was far more attached to Hawke than I ever was to the Warden. He had a family, a personal life, real goals and emotions. The Warden seemed so...disconnected in comparison. I loved Origins and I loved my Warden when I first played it. But in comparison to Hawke, he just doesn't have the same level of depth.

[Arrun]

highcastle wrote...

I'm so not convinced Flemeth is the Big Bad of the series. I think there's much more to her than meets the eye, but I don't think she's pure evil. Actually, having anyone in this setting be pure evil would be a bit of a letdown after the gray-versus-gray world painted by DA2.

Orlais seems like the likeliest option for DA3, but that's what we thought for DA2, too. So I for one am not certain of anything. Tevinter also got quite a bit of mention throughout the game, and it's another place where the mages and Chantry have been going at it. And let's not forget the presence of the Qunari, who Fenris suggests are waiting for something (or at least have a purpose on Saharon keeping them from invading the rest of Thedas). There's a lot of balls up in the air right now and I can see the action shifting almost anywhere.

As for playing as the Warden versus Hawke...please no. Hawke or a new character. I was far more attached to Hawke than I ever was to the Warden. He had a family, a personal life, real goals and emotions. The Warden seemed so...disconnected in comparison. I loved Origins and I loved my Warden when I first played it. But in comparison to Hawke, he just doesn't have the same level of depth.

I think the point he was making was that if EA allow more production time and a larger budget for the third installment, you would end up feeling much more attached to your warden because of the presence of a voice actor, and giving that, despite DA2's many shortcomings in terms of actual evolution from its predecessor(there seemed to be more devolving imo but i digress) it did improve the 'feel' of the main character whether by his family life, or his romantic involvements or his house etc etc. So that would not be a problem.

Modifié par Arrun, 19 avril 2011 - 10:10 .

[Lenimph]

DreadMarshmallow wrote...

Speaking of Sandal...

Either he's talking abought the OGB or The Maker... 
Or it's all complete rubbish 

Edit: Maybe that dialog only plays if the warden did the dark ritual? That would prove he's talking about the old god baby.

Modifié par Lenimph, 19 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[Arrun]

Lenimph wrote...

DreadMarshmallow wrote...

Speaking of Sandal...

Either he's talking abought the OGB or The Maker... 
Or it's all complete rubbish 

OGB? Old God... Brawl? 

[Lenimph]

The old god baby...

Morrigan's love child with Warden/Alistair/Logain that contains the soul of the old god / archdemon if the ritual took place. 

Modifié par Lenimph, 19 avril 2011 - 11:14 .

[andraip]

Arrun wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

If Bioware manage to pull of the Warden and Hawke being in the same game...that would be awesome. When you think about it, it shouldn't be too hard to manage. 6 voices for the three races and two genders of each race. Heh. Elves and humans could even share the same voice.

It's just a matter of how it would be done. Would the player choose which character they want to be with the other fading into the background - waiting at the camp or keep - or could we have The Warden/Hawke in the party as well?

If i'm totally honest, I very simply want to play my warden .. if money's an issue, judging from the reaction to Origins when it was released, a voice actor didn't spoil anything, and besides, whenever I play DA2, those few reverntial reference to my Warden make him sound so powerful and important, and Hawke so small in comparison. If they managed to incorporate both, it would be, like a DA Fan's dream, but 2 words would probably spoil that idea:

Electronic Arts.

lets raise some money to buy Bioware and release it from the EA (d)evil

[Icy Magebane]

My Warden was a maleficar and my Hawke is a templar. If they ever met, one of them wouldn't be walking away alive. Even if that wasn't the case, I don't want the Warden to show up again. No point in resurrecting a great character simply to ruin him with paraphrasing and voice actors. That's fine for Hawke, but I would get really irritated by constantly listening to the Warden saying things I never intended due to his dominant personality.

Anyway... I just wanted to say that I agree about the game taking place Orlais. All the clues seem to point in that direction. Also, Sandal, a tranquil dwarf? Maker, I hope not! First off, he is just slow... he feels happiness and... discomfort? Whatever. He has emotions. Unless using the Rite on dwarves does something totally different... plus, he's just some kid that happened to be found by Bodhan, and Bodahn just happened to be rescued by the Warden. I think they need to just forget about Sandal, because his presence is too coincidental. Unless Flemeth orchestrated the whole thing, none of this makes any sense. And if she had that much power, why is she acting at all? Clearly she can do more than just see into the future if she managed to steer Bodhan and Sandal in the path of 2 heroes... I just don't like this idea.

[Apathy1989]

highcastle wrote...

I'm so not convinced Flemeth is the Big Bad of the series. I think there's much more to her than meets the eye, but I don't think she's pure evil. Actually, having anyone in this setting be pure evil would be a bit of a letdown after the gray-versus-gray world painted by DA2.

Orlais seems like the likeliest option for DA3, but that's what we thought for DA2, too. So I for one am not certain of anything. Tevinter also got quite a bit of mention throughout the game, and it's another place where the mages and Chantry have been going at it. And let's not forget the presence of the Qunari, who Fenris suggests are waiting for something (or at least have a purpose on Saharon keeping them from invading the rest of Thedas). There's a lot of balls up in the air right now and I can see the action shifting almost anywhere.

As for playing as the Warden versus Hawke...please no. Hawke or a new character. I was far more attached to Hawke than I ever was to the Warden. He had a family, a personal life, real goals and emotions. The Warden seemed so...disconnected in comparison. I loved Origins and I loved my Warden when I first played it. But in comparison to Hawke, he just doesn't have the same level of depth.

I see flemeth more as a puppetmaster, rather than a "big bad". She manipulates and weaves the world around her. What is she? An abomination surely, but what of? A simple spirit of the fade, or some people have speculated she is an old god.

Anyway, I am interested to see how they resolve the subplots of morrigon/flemeth and sandal. Maybe DA3 or further down the road.

On topic of seeing the Warden and Hawk again, I sure hope not and don't expect so. First off the Warden is so many different possible characters and personalities, it would be impossible to voice act and write him into a story to everyones liking. Second reason applies to both, is that the player has always controlled these characters and to run into your character operating without the player is not something I expect to happen.

I expect there to be some weird plot, or miracle, that has spirited them away. Probably never to be seen again besides in legend.

[Arrun]

Icy Magebane wrote...

My Warden was a maleficar and my Hawke is a templar. If they ever met, one of them wouldn't be walking away alive. Even if that wasn't the case, I don't want the Warden to show up again. No point in resurrecting a great character simply to ruin him with paraphrasing and voice actors. That's fine for Hawke, but I would get really irritated by constantly listening to the Warden saying things I never intended due to his dominant personality.

Anyway... I just wanted to say that I agree about the game taking place Orlais. All the clues seem to point in that direction. Also, Sandal, a tranquil dwarf? Maker, I hope not! First off, he is just slow... he feels happiness and... discomfort? Whatever. He has emotions. Unless using the Rite on dwarves does something totally different... plus, he's just some kid that happened to be found by Bodhan, and Bodahn just happened to be rescued by the Warden. I think they need to just forget about Sandal, because his presence is too coincidental. Unless Flemeth orchestrated the whole thing, none of this makes any sense. And if she had that much power, why is she acting at all? Clearly she can do more than just see into the future if she managed to steer Bodhan and Sandal in the path of 2 heroes... I just don't like this idea.

that dominance of personality thing could be quite easily fixed by your character actually saying what the frickin text says, so that when i think im being nice and click 'i'll help you', he doesnt instead say 'fine, but you better be grateful and give me some coin damnit!'  if they want sophisitcation, add a secondary tone option for a certain response?

[Tielis]

Hmm... Sandal and Flemeth...

Maybe Sandal is another OGB and Flemeth is his mom? Huh, but dwarves can't produce offspring with humans, right?

[MEUTRIERE]

I could easily see DA3 taking place in Orlais save for the fact that everyone would have a French accent, which would get annoying fast...
That said, Tevinters have an English accent, which makes Tevinter a more likely candidate in my eyes.

[Arrun]

MEUTRIERE wrote...

I could easily see DA3 taking place in Orlais save for the fact that everyone would have a French accent, which would get annoying fast...
That said, Tevinters have an English accent, which makes Tevinter a more likely candidate in my eyes.

not to mention the stinky cheese....

[Arrun]

Lenimph wrote...

The old god baby...

Morrigan's love child with Warden/Alistair/Logain that contains the soul of the old god / archdemon if the ritual took place. 

OMG I totally forgot about that! Yes, it has definitely convinced me that it is the Old God Baby.

And can dwarves do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan?

[Potato Cat]

Arrun wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

The old god baby...

Morrigan's love child with Warden/Alistair/Logain that contains the soul of the old god / archdemon if the ritual took place. 

OMG I totally forgot about that! Yes, it has definitely convinced me that it is the Old God Baby.

And can dwarves do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan?

Of course they can! Any male could do it. All that's required is Morrigan's magic and the death of an Archdemon.