353 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Knight of Phoenix wrote...


@ Redux
Dain has better unique armor. Your argument is thus refuted.

Xanthos shall kill Dain and take his armor for himself. Your argument is thus hereby refuted.

[Torax]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd have no problem with having to be a Chantry stooge. In Mass Effect 2, I had to play a Cerberus 'stoogie,' though I don't feel the story explored that sufficiently.

The amount of leeway there was staggering though. They basically gave you a ship and crew and told you to work your mojo.

That's the way it is with every BioWare game. Why would being a Seeker be any different?

True that. Newby Jedi who doesn't remember much. Here is a ship. Do your best.  

Hey newby Warden. Here is some treaties. Umm make it work. k thx...  

Hey Shep you're now a spectre. You have your old pal's ship. make it work. 

Hey Shep. You died. I broke my bank bringing back. Nicer ship k. Don't totally hate me. I'm a Sheen afterall... :innocent:

Hey you kind of are good at killing bandits and stuff. Saved us so we gave you a fancier title. Not sure why you carry that staff around. Thx anyway. Hey, why are you leaving champion? Just cause the cities on fire? I haz bucket... 

Modifié par Torax, 20 avril 2011 - 02:40 .

[IanPolaris]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I'd have no problem with having to be a Chantry stooge. In Mass Effect 2, I had to play a Cerberus 'stoogie,' though I don't feel the story explored that sufficiently.

The amount of leeway there was staggering though. They basically gave you a ship and crew and told you to work your mojo.

That's the way it is with every BioWare game. Why would being a Seeker be any different?

Dragon Age 2 isn't that way and if the same team makes Dragon Age 3, then I have every reason to think that it also won't be that way either.  If you read the codex on Seekers, they seem to be the Chantry's elite inquisitors/secret police, but ARE rigidly controlled (and the scenes we saw they seemed pretty regimented to me).

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
In Knights of the Old Republic, you had to be a Jedi.

You could also atfer the Leviathan revelation decide to be a chess master and try to reclaim your former position (you can tell uthar that you have reclaimed your title and he swears allegience to you. That's before Rakata prime).  And then officially turn on the Jedi.

*Dreamy sigh*, memories. Bastilla: "I will be your lover and apprentice"

That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

Not if the game is anything like Dragon Age 2 you won't.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's my theory that if Hawke were to step outside the territorial boundaries of Kirkwall (the Hellmouth of Thedas, apparently), it stands to reason that he may no longer be useless. He may actually do things.

I hope he remembers to report the death of his mother....because you know...his mother was brutally murdered....with evidence implicating someone in the Circle....
Might be worth investigating...I mean if he has nothing better to do...

God he's lazy.

You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

...

I still contend Hawke can do things once his brain isn't being addled by Kirkwall's Hellmouth.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's my theory that if Hawke were to step outside the territorial boundaries of Kirkwall (the Hellmouth of Thedas, apparently), it stands to reason that he may no longer be useless. He may actually do things.

I hope he remembers to report the death of his mother....because you know...his mother was brutally murdered....with evidence implicating someone in the Circle....
Might be worth investigating...I mean if he has nothing better to do...

God he's lazy.

You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

...

I still contend Hawke can do things once his brain isn't being addled by Kirkwall's Hellmouth.

Kirkwall must distort places too. That same ladder that only goes up and leads to the Amell Estate cellar leads to a Dwarven Thaig.

[Maria Caliban]

IanPolaris wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
In Knights of the Old Republic, you had to be a Jedi. In Dragon Age: Origins, you have to be a Grey Warden (who are also attempting to commit genocide). In the Witcher, you have to be a Witcher. In Deus Ex, you have to be part of UNATCO (and later you have to leave.)

Are all of these not cRPGs?

You had massive choice within those broad limits, though.  In KoOR, you could go Sith for example.  As a Grey Warden, you could be a complete bastard or a paragon and in all  possible class combiantions....and because you were the last one of two surviving Wardens, you basically had no oversight whatsoever....so the Grey Warden limitation did not exist.

As a Chantry Seeker, you could discredit the Chantry and the Templars. You could publicly expose corruption and abuses or cover them up. You could secretly help the Dalish, mages, or other even worshipers of the old gods.

You could certainly be a bastard or paragon.

As for being a mage, we're talking about a group of secret police. Such an origination probably hold itself as being above the law, even the law of the Chantry it's intended to serve.

What I am afraid of (esp with Laidlow in charge) is that we will be shoehorned into being part of the Chantry's Gestapo with almost no real abiliity to choose our own path or make meaningful decisions....even more than DA2 and quite honestly, DA2 should have been written as a book not a computer game.

That's a possibility, and I understand your fear, but I think that's a separate issue. If DA 3 made so the player doesn't have a wide-range of choices and can't influence the plot, then it's going to be that way no matter what the role of the PC is.

[KnightofPhoenix]

LobselVith8 wrote...
You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

Well he does employ several in his mine that has such a nice reassuring name. Of course all of them die but it's the intent that matters! It is kind of hard to guess that the dragons you saw there the first time actually had a mother somewhere around. I mean, dragons usually spawn from the ground, the boss fight against the high dragon proves it.

[IanPolaris]

LobselVith8 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's my theory that if Hawke were to step outside the territorial boundaries of Kirkwall (the Hellmouth of Thedas, apparently), it stands to reason that he may no longer be useless. He may actually do things.

I hope he remembers to report the death of his mother....because you know...his mother was brutally murdered....with evidence implicating someone in the Circle....
Might be worth investigating...I mean if he has nothing better to do...

God he's lazy.

You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

...

I still contend Hawke can do things once his brain isn't being addled by Kirkwall's Hellmouth.

I hear ya, especially if you are playing a diplomatic/paragon Hawke.  Evelina's charge (yes she's a crazy abomination by this point but still...) rings painfully true.  Hawke is dining on sweetmeats while his fellow fereldans starve, and he doesn't seem to care or do anything about it.  He even lets his own uncle rot in the slums of lowtown while living it up with his mother who suddenly seems to think she's the next in line to be the Viscountess of Kirkwall again.

When you step outside of Hawke's narrow goals and really look, Hawke really does seem to be a very shallow, narcisstic, and selfish self-appointed nobleman with far too much power and idle time on his hands.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

Well he does employ several in his mine that has such a nice reassuring name. Of course all of them die but it's the intent that matters! It is kind of hard to guess that the dragons you saw there the first time actually had a mother somewhere around. I mean, dragons usually spawn from the ground, the boss fight against the high dragon proves it.

...and it's not like you'd ever doubt the competance and/or honesty of your business partner.  Oh no......

(and there is NOTHING you can do about it which is really aggravating!)

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Well he does employ several in his mine that has such a nice reassuring name. Of course all of them die but it's the intent that matters! It is kind of hard to guess that the dragons you saw there the first time actually had a mother somewhere around. I mean, dragons usually spawn from the ground, the boss fight against the high dragon proves it.

...and it's not like you'd ever doubt the competance and/or honesty of your business partner.  Oh no......

(and there is NOTHING you can do about it which is really aggravating!)

-Polaris

Who would ever doubt an Orlesian? A Ferelden? Pfff...oh wait.

[IanPolaris]

Maria Caliban wrote...

As a Chantry Seeker, you could discredit the Chantry and the Templars. You could publicly expose corruption and abuses or cover them up. You could secretly help the Dalish, mages, or other even worshipers of the old gods.

You could certainly be a bastard or paragon.

As for being a mage, we're talking about a group of secret police. Such an origination probably hold itself as being above the law, even the law of the Chantry it's intended to serve.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I'm just not buying it.  From what I've read, seen, and been told about the Seekers (mainly the cut scenes and codex entries), unlike the Warden or a Spectre, the Chantry seems to keep it's Seekers on a very short leash so I just don't see it no matter how hard I try.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
You'd think Hawke would use his nobility, status, and fortune to help the disenfranchized people of Darktown, the elves of the Alienage, or possibly even the mages of the underground railroad with his cellar that's right next door to Anders' clinic, but he's got important things to do... like wear his silk smoking jacket.

Well he does employ several in his mine that has such a nice reassuring name. Of course all of them die but it's the intent that matters! It is kind of hard to guess that the dragons you saw there the first time actually had a mother somewhere around. I mean, dragons usually spawn from the ground, the boss fight against the high dragon proves it.

You both realize you can actually donate to the Fereldan refugees in Darktown, right?

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

I doubt however that there are mage seekers. It would really restrict player options.

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

I doubt however that there are mage seekers. It would really restrict player options.

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

The Chantry has been hypocritical in the past, why stop now?

[KnightofPhoenix]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You both realize you can actually donate to the Fereldan refugees in Darktown, right?

Wouldn't it be better served to use the money to, oh I don't know, build a more hygienic clinic, or a school for Ferelden children, or some kind of business that employs some of them without high risk of death (he is exploiting his own damn people!). 

And that, would have aided him in establishing political connections and legitimacy amongst the populace, which could have been part of a broader strategy to actually use the power he has responsibly and for a purpose. Like removing Meredith.

But no, too busy staring at the naked man accross the window.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

I doubt however that there are mage seekers. It would really restrict player options.

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

I kind of doubt that. I coudl see it, but it would be sort of a stretch. Seekers are even more feared by the mages than Templars.

Would the Chantry really risk empowering mages that much? doubtful.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

I doubt however that there are mage seekers. It would really restrict player options.

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

The Chantry has been hypocritical in the past, why stop now?

What is hypocritical about it? They have allowed Mages to go about on their own before. If a mage proves to be loyal, why not reward them, and put them in a job they could excel at? After all, if the concept art is to be taken into account, if they would allow a Kossith, they'd probably allow a mage too.

[The Angry One]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What is hypocritical about it? They have allowed Mages to go about on their own before. If a mage proves to be loyal, why not reward them, and put them in a job they could excel at? After all, if the concept art is to be taken into account, if they would allow a Kossith, they'd probably allow a mage too.

We all know the concept art is of a universe seperate to and 10x as cool as the game itself.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But no, too busy staring at the naked man accross the window.

That guy's doing The Naked Man.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
What is hypocritical about it? They have allowed Mages to go about on their own before. If a mage proves to be loyal, why not reward them, and put them in a job they could excel at? After all, if the concept art is to be taken into account, if they would allow a Kossith, they'd probably allow a mage too.

Since when?  The closest example if Wilhelm and he was carefully monitered by the First Enchanter (Arlen at the time) and he was  one of the Heros of the Fereldan Revolution (and thus a special case if there ever was one).  At best the circle mages we see outside are on strictly controlled probation.  The Chantry does not allow even supposedly loyal mages to go about on their own.  Even Wynne had to ask permission and she's about as senior and loyal as it gets!

-Polaris

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I wouldn't mind working for the Chantry. I wouldn't mind having the option of becoming a Seeker. But I would mind having my characterization limited to being a devout Andrastean. In ME2, I worked for Cerberus, but I had many opportunities to make it clear that I was not part of Cerberus. I anticipate a similar relationship with the Chantry in DAIII.

I played a devount Andrastean in DA:O, and the only times it came up was the scene where I asked for the Mother's blessing and two conversations with Leliana.

I don't recall a single moment in DA II where the character could express religious belief or lack thereof.

I imagine, if you were a Seeker, you'd be able to ask for a blessing. You might have quests where you go after cults and such, and maybe you could let them go. I really don't think it would be an issue.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
That's also nice. As a Seeker, you'd probably be in a great position to undermine the Chantry.

I doubt however that there are mage seekers. It would really restrict player options.

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

The Chantry has been hypocritical in the past, why stop now?

What is hypocritical about it? They have allowed Mages to go about on their own before. If a mage proves to be loyal, why not reward them, and put them in a job they could excel at? After all, if the concept art is to be taken into account, if they would allow a Kossith, they'd probably allow a mage too.

The Kossith is Tal-Vashoth, and possibly a convert (although that seems incredibly unlikely). Plus, it's artwork. nothing canon as of yet.

I'd like examples of these mages that have gone about on their own before.

[EmperorSahlertz]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You both realize you can actually donate to the Fereldan refugees in Darktown, right?

Wouldn't it be better served to use the money to, oh I don't know, build a more hygienic clinic, or a school for Ferelden children, or some kind of business that employs some of them without high risk of death (he is exploiting his own damn people!). 

And that, would have aided him in establishing political connections and legitimacy amongst the populace, which could have been part of a broader strategy to actually use the power he has responsibly and for a purpose. Like removing Meredith.

But no, too busy staring at the naked man accross the window.

Uhm.. Hawke is only doing what you tell him to. If he is exploiting his own people it is becusae YOU made him. And how is Hawke going to build a business with the sum of gold he has? It is only around 150sovereigns for the average player at most. It would probably cost a lot more to start the business without having it go bankrupt too. And I doubt Anders would like the attention it would bring him to upgrade his clinic. And he does give them employ that is, relatively anyway, safe in the Bone Pit. Hawke aggrees to keep the workers at the Bone Pit safe.
And  he may have gathered Power, but he is not nearly powerful enough to oust Meredith. Besides he has no reason to until act 3, which doesn't leave a lot of room for finesse, though he can start the political maneuvering if you side with the mages.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have no problem imagining the Seekers have mages among them.

I bet they are special ninja mages.

[The Angry One]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I don't recall a single moment in DA II where the character could express religious belief or lack thereof.

In a couple of conversations with Elthina you can.