353 réponses à ce sujet

[Torax]

Fenris does say after he believes they were building up strength to attack later. So yet it was his opinion but he was still of the mind that the Qunari were up to something. Their might is pretty strong. Basically that the Qunari are the greatest threat after Darkspawn. Supposedly.

[moilami]

Guns and weapon systems are blood magic.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I doubt anyone but the Qunari are going to get cannons anytime soon. The QUnari aren't exactly forthcoming in negotiations regarding blackpowder.

Anders' "potion" recipe disagrees.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm pretty sure that we aren't getting such huge technological advances in Dragon Age's story. Qunari have been using gunpowder for hundreds of years, they haven't developed it tanks or anything yet. Not only that humans and dwarves have the ability to use destructive power that wasn't available in real history. Lyrium and magic spells are far more effective than anything in medieval times and more so than many things in following centuries.

We aren't getting huge technology leaps because we're staying in a specific age (aka century).  If the next archdemon sprouts in 500 years, it'd be bad writing to claim no technological advancements were made.  It's just that we won't see that Blight because this series is about the Dragon Age, not the Enchantment Age or what have you.  Doesn't mean it wouldn't realistically go that way.

Also, magic and other such fantasty devices would only serve to advance technology faster.  The more resources at one's disposal, the more you can do.  Thedas has many additional resources at its disposal than our real world.

Sometimes in a fantasy setting you've got to make allowances for technological stagnation. The Qunari have always known how to make gunpowder. They were recorded have used it since the First Qunari War which began in the Storm Age, 300 years ago. My point about magic was that even with the increased destructive powers they have, it still didn't make a difference in shortening the Blights. They have abilities which surpassed the real world's civilizations' destructive power even when they were centuries more technologically advanced.

I'm pretty sure Anders' potion recipe ingredients were magical reagents.

[LobselVith8]

Herr Uhl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's a good excuse considering the Wardens want to operate in the Andrastian nations without incident from the general populace.

My point is that their very organization was flawed from the start. If people knew what the joining entailed and why it was necessary to defeat the archdemon, they'd have gotten used to it. They kept it secret for little reason.

Or they would never join the Wardens at all because of the risks involved, and by the time the Blight had come around, it would be too late to deal with it because they didn't have the numbers to deal with the Archdemon and the darkspawn armies... so I see them keeping the secrets of the order for good reason, especially given the bias against magic in Thedas.

Herr Uhl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

They have no clear plan? The Wardens were in Orlais, and there were only three Wardens avaliable to fight the Archdemon in Denerim. They did what they could do with limited resources. And considering that the weapon of choice passed down to Bevan by his dragon slaying grandfather was a sword, I don't see anything to indicate that the dragon-slayers had any other tools avaliable to destroy dragons...

Not tools, but methods. I think that "running up on tower and jump as dragon flies by" isn't what they built their reputation around.

Three Grey Wardens were avaliable, and Denerim was already under siege. The hundreds of Grey Wardens who could have assisted against the Blight were in a neighboring nation.

[Wulfram]

The Darkspawn seem quite capable of keeping up with technology. They've got armour and crossbows, for example, and at Ostagar they have siege engines. So while gunpowder technology might reduce the threat of the archdemon, the horde's danger would be unchanged.

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

People would ask how they know such things, and it would inevitably go back to the fact that the Joining creates Wardens from the blood of darkspawn and magic, and the Andrastian nations are conservative about magic and specifically magic that involves blood. It's something that can be used against the Wardens quite easily if it was common knowledge among the people, particularly when Andrastians are willing to kill mages over incidents that don't involve them because of their ignorance (as Wynne addresses). Revealing that Wardens drink the specifically prepared blood of an Archdemon and a darkspawn would be the very thing Loghain could have easily used to turn the people of Ferelden against the Wardens when he charged that the Wardens betrayed King Cailan.

Giving actual reasons for people to believe that the Wardens are correct in asserting that it is a Blight, and why they are actually necessary to stop it would have made it much less likely that people would turn on them. 

Even Loghain probably wouldn't be so crazy as to knowingly destroy Ferelden's only hope of survival.

Or giving people reason to fear and mistrust the Wardens because they are made in a ritual that involves magic and blood, given the bias against magic in general I think it's wise they kept this knowledge from the Andrastians of Thedas.

Wulfram wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

As for how clandestine the Joining is, we have no idea whether the Chantry of Andraste or the Order of Templars is aware about the Joining, though.

The Templars watch them pretty closely.

And the Chantry recognizes the importance of the Wardens enough to allow the mages to join the order without Chantry and templar supervision.

Wulfram wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I respectfully disagree. The Wardens got other nations involved to stop the Blight more than once, and you seem to think that preventing the destruction of Thedas is a "poor claim" to competency; I couldn't disagree more on this issue.

I don't think that convincing people to fight the horde of monsters planning to conquer the world is that difficult a task.

You must not have played DA:O, then.

[Torax]

Wulfram wrote...

The Darkspawn seem quite capable of keeping up with technology. They've got armour and crossbows, for example, and at Ostagar they have siege engines. So while gunpowder technology might reduce the threat of the archdemon, the horde's danger would be unchanged.

The Darkspawn are the greatest force. Probably why the Arishok wanted to know what is the Blight. To better know what threatens them the most. The only other force that has so easily taken over regions is the Qunari. Who amassed a ton of land after landing far to the North. A force that I think most nations now won't go to War with them if they can help it. Not saying the Qunari are unbeatable but that most Nations wouldn't risk a battle with them. It didn't go well in the past. The Qunari are basically only pushed back to areas they accept. For now anyway.

Modifié par Torax, 19 avril 2011 - 10:38 .

[The Angry One]

Torax wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Darkspawn seem quite capable of keeping up with technology. They've got armour and crossbows, for example, and at Ostagar they have siege engines. So while gunpowder technology might reduce the threat of the archdemon, the horde's danger would be unchanged.

The Darkspawn are the greatest force. Probably why the Arishok wanted to know what is the Blight. To better know what threatens them the most. The only other force that has so easily taken over regions is the Qunari. Who amassed a ton of land after landing far to the North. A force that I think most nations now won't go to War with them if they can help it. Not saying the Qunari are unbeatable but that most Nations wouldn't risk a battle with them. It didn't go well in the past. The Qunari are basically only pushed back to areas they accept. For now anyway.

Unless whatever compelled them to flee to Par Vollen comes to Thedas.
Which I still say is the Jade Empire. 

[Herr Uhl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

My point is that their very organization was flawed from the start. If people knew what the joining entailed and why it was necessary to defeat the archdemon, they'd have gotten used to it. They kept it secret for little reason.

Or they would never join the Wardens at all because of the risks involved, and by the time the Blight had come around, it would be too late to deal with it because they didn't have the numbers to deal with the Archdemon and the darkspawn armies... so I see them keeping the secrets of the order for good reason, especially given the bias against magic in Thedas.

Or they could have a reserve of blood in every capital which is distributed to armies in case of blight. That people would find it too risky is unlikely, if they knew that it was necessary. And there was no damn bias against magic in Thedas during the first blight, it was ruled by mages. Stop bringing that up.

The wardens have never been enough in number to fight the darkspawn themselves, nor are they needed to fight regular darkspawn.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Not tools, but methods. I think that "running up on tower and jump as dragon flies by" isn't what they built their reputation around.

Three Grey Wardens were avaliable, and Denerim was already under siege. The hundreds of Grey Wardens who could have assisted against the Blight were in a neighboring nation.

So he couldn't have told any of the soldiers that have never fought a dragon tactics involved, or you, or anyone for that matter. Him (1/3 of the available wardens) deciding to try and kill it himself is dumb.

[LobselVith8]

Herr Uhl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Or they would never join the Wardens at all because of the risks involved, and by the time the Blight had come around, it would be too late to deal with it because they didn't have the numbers to deal with the Archdemon and the darkspawn armies... so I see them keeping the secrets of the order for good reason, especially given the bias against magic in Thedas.

Or they could have a reserve of blood in every capital which is distributed to armies in case of blight.

Because clearly, no one will take issue with drinking magically prepared Archdemon and darkspawn blood in a continent that has a strong bias against mages and magic.

Herr Uhl wrote...

That people would find it too risky is unlikely, if they knew that it was necessary. And there was no damn bias against magic in Thedas during the first blight, it was ruled by mages. Stop bringing that up.

There is a bias against magic when Wynne addresses that people kill mages for things they didn't do simply for being mages.

Herr Uhl wrote...

The wardens have never been enough in number to fight the darkspawn themselves, nor are they needed to fight regular darkspawn.

Considering the Wardens are the only ones immune to the taint, I respectfully disagree.

Herr Uhl wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Three Grey Wardens were avaliable, and Denerim was already under siege. The hundreds of Grey Wardens who could have assisted against the Blight were in a neighboring nation.

So he couldn't have told any of the soldiers that have never fought a dragon tactics involved, or you, or anyone for that matter. Him (1/3 of the available wardens) deciding to try and kill it himself is dumb.

Are you serious? He's one man with no flight capability that has to deal with darkspawn overrunning the capital and an Archdemon that has flight caability, which is why it usually takes decades to deal with the Blight. Fighting the darkspawn and the Archdemons aren't as easy as you're trying to make it out to be, and I would wager tactics against an Archdemon are difficult when most people assumed dragons are extinct and mostly everyone but the Wardens thought the Blights are finally finished.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 19 avril 2011 - 10:53 .

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Sometimes in a fantasy setting you've got to make allowances for technological stagnation.

Read what I said.  I specifically said that we wouldn't see it because this is DRAGON AGE and the games aren't going to be set in future ages.

I'm pretty sure Anders' potion recipe ingredients were magical reagents.

It wasn't.  He was collecting saltpeter and sulfur, real ingredients for real explosives.  How do you think so many people knew what he was up to when they started the quest?

[Torax]

 Well it was some Saltpeter & Sulfure plus a bit of angry Abomination stuffs = MAGIC!!!

[TJPags]

Tevinter is well run?

Well, I guess America should go back to the Old West way of doing things . . .posse's and hangings and gunfights at the OK Corral.

Because, that's kind of how Tevinter has been described - Magisters battling each other for supremacy in the streets.

Sounds really well planned, that government.

[Benchmark]

Torax wrote...

 Well it was some Saltpeter & Sulfure plus a bit of angry Abomination stuffs = MAGIC!!!

Haha, yeah. That explosion didn't happen from a flask of gunpowder he could hide under his feathered pauldrons... It had to be enhanced by a few drops of JUSTICE!!!

[Vicious]

If I am forced to be a seeker PC in DA 3, I will be an EX-Customer of Bioware. The Seekers are incompetant stooges if Leliann is any indication.

I am completely baffled by your post. Seekers are the Spectres of Thedas. You obviously played ME1/ME2, and in ME1 you have to support the Council whether you like it or not, at least until the end.

It could be the same in DA3, but i am just baffled that you immediately write off a game just because you're a member of an organization we pretty much know nothing about.

Says a lot.

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

I wouldn't exactly praise the competence of the Tevinters. They're basically the moribund Byzantine empire, locked in a duel with the Turks. And they're losing, little by little.

Considering the relative strength of Tevinter and the Qunari, I'd say losing only little by little is competance.

-Polaris

you do realize the Qunari don't really give a **** about Tevinter? They're only defending Seheron because that's all they want. If they wanted to take Tevinter they would've done so already.

That's what Fenris claims.  I am not willing to take anything Fenris says about Tevinter at absolute face value and even Fenris would aknowledge (I think) that Tevinter is well run and competant (but evil).

-Polaris

If a few hundred Kossith (at most. They had been dwindling since they landed) were able to take Kirkwall on their own only to be stopped at the very last minute; I think it's pretty evident that the Qunari could destroy Tevinter in a heartbeat if they wanted.

Especially considering it took a gathering of various nations just to drive them out of Thedas (temporarily)

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Darkspawn seem quite capable of keeping up with technology. They've got armour and crossbows, for example, and at Ostagar they have siege engines. So while gunpowder technology might reduce the threat of the archdemon, the horde's danger would be unchanged.

An Archdemon with a row of cannons on its back. Make it so, BioWare.

skip ahead to about the 1:30 mark

[Torax]

 The link you are looking for is here

[The Angry One]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



skip ahead to about the 1:30 mark

You know what I love about that scene? The cannons are useless (the aliens get vaporized by a deus ex machina).
Star Ocean 3 sure loved it's red herrings.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[TEWR]

Torax wrote...

 The link you are looking for is here

way to use my link you thieving thief of thieviness!

[TEWR]

The Angry One wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



skip ahead to about the 1:30 mark

You know what I love about that scene? The cannons are useless (the aliens get vaporized by a deus ex machina).
Star Ocean 3 sure loved it's red herrings.

You are the first person I've seen on these forums that loves Star Ocean just as much as I do!


I enjoyed the massive plot twist though. Now I'm forever wondering if, well if you've played you know the plot twist.

[The Angry One]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You are the first person I've seen on these forums that loves Star Ocean just as much as I do!

Mostly Star Ocean 2 though.
Mainly playing as Rena. This has nothing do to with having a thing for Dias. Well, little. Well, half. Nevermind.

I enjoyed the massive plot twist though. Now I'm forever wondering if, well if you've played you know the plot twist.

Bizarre as hell. I suppose I would have accepted it better if the game hadn't been leading to an entirely different direction up to that point but I just think it was silly.

That said, the aesthetic of Star Ocean 3 I totally adored.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 avril 2011 - 11:55 .

[IanPolaris]

Vicious wrote...

If I am forced to be a seeker PC in DA 3, I will be an EX-Customer of Bioware. The Seekers are incompetant stooges if Leliann is any indication.

I am completely baffled by your post. Seekers are the Spectres of Thedas. You obviously played ME1/ME2, and in ME1 you have to support the Council whether you like it or not, at least until the end.

Actually no you don't.  You can be a complete a-hat and hang up on the council, call them names, and even do things the council hates (like Genocide).  You can even politically campaign against the council.

As for the Seekers, I read the codex entry.  They are not spectres.  They are the Chantry's Gestopo and frankly I'd rather spend my money elsewhere then be a Seeker Inquistitor for the Chantry.  I'd rather not play Torqumeda.

It could be the same in DA3, but i am just baffled that you immediately write off a game just because you're a member of an organization we pretty much know nothing about.

Says a lot.

I know they answer to the Chantry and I know what the Chantry stands for, and I know they KNOWINGLY allowed a complete fruitloop to run Kirkwall into the ground for ten years becasue they hate mages (and Lelianna tells you pretty much flat out that she hates mages much in contrast to her DAO persona).   Cassandra also at least strongly implies by her line of questioning and assumptions that she hates and despises mages too.

That's reason enough.

-Polaris