289 réponses à ce sujet

[Luvinn]

None, i told ash she has the right to believe what she wants, says so in the alliance charter.

My shep has no time to waste on religion

Modifié par Luvinn, 19 avril 2011 - 06:01 .

[Pwener2313]

mereck7980 wrote...

Careful Pwener2313, this statement (which I agree with) is liable to start a VERY heated conversation because only the most devot role players would say their Shep has a different religious affiliation than the faith they adhere to.  Personally, my Shep is agnostic...because I am. 

Also, ME doesn't really utilize faith as one of its major themes (at least not yet).  Aside from the Ash conversation in ME1 and references to the Enkindlers there really aren't any references made to religion.  And I think that this is probably for the best.  If you think Bioware caught flak for a little "side boob" in ME1, it would be nothing compared to the firestorm they would recieve if they tried to include different religous choices for characters in the game. 

Times are different. If no one takes the leap then we stagnate. Stagnation is impossible when it comes to Humans. Right now we have characters in videogames who are openly gay (Fallout). Taking the next leap is inevitable. People like me only want the transition to be as smooth as possible. Don't want another stupid FOX thing to come around again.

[Pwener2313]

Luvinn wrote...

None, i told ash she has the right to believe what she wants, says so in the alliance charter.

My shep has no time to waste on religion

So religion is a waste of time?

See how easily that can be misinterpreted. Watch your wording next time, just advice, not trying to scold you.

[Weak Sauce Hype]

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

[Nashiktal]

Atheist-Agnostic here. (Not that most people would know the difference. >.>)

Unfortunately due to the vast amount of religious views it would be almost impossible to represent them in game, at least for shep. I do hope they explore religion and philosophy more in either ME3, or whatever ME project comes next.

For example, I remember an alien species (Turian?) that welcomed buddhism with open arms, and how certain religions on Earth had to change and adapt to modern times. Its ll interesting stuff.

[AngelicMachinery]

FearedZero wrote...

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

They are Cthonic horrors from beyond the stars that inspire insanity to all who look upon them for too long.

[Turneyvore]

Anna Shepard: If there is a god he has abandoned me and I will not bow to him.
Uriel Shepard: Jesus is my lord and savior. Every time I step into battle I know Christ has a hand on my shoulder.
Clare Shepard: Meh, I'll believe in Asari Philosophies if it makes Liara happy.
Theodore Shepard: How could there possibly be a god of any kind in a universe such as this one?
Quincy Shepard: Does it matter what God lies at the world's end? If I am virtuous in life surely there will be some reward. And if there is nothing after I breathe my last then I will suffer no regrets for I shall have lived my life in the fullest measure possible and need no more.

[Weak Sauce Hype]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

FearedZero wrote...

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

They are Cthonic horrors from beyond the stars that inspire insanity to all who look upon them for too long.

I knew I was right

[mereck7980]

Pwener2313 wrote...

mereck7980 wrote...

Careful Pwener2313, this statement (which I agree with) is liable to start a VERY heated conversation because only the most devot role players would say their Shep has a different religious affiliation than the faith they adhere to.  Personally, my Shep is agnostic...because I am. 

Also, ME doesn't really utilize faith as one of its major themes (at least not yet).  Aside from the Ash conversation in ME1 and references to the Enkindlers there really aren't any references made to religion.  And I think that this is probably for the best.  If you think Bioware caught flak for a little "side boob" in ME1, it would be nothing compared to the firestorm they would recieve if they tried to include different religous choices for characters in the game. 

Times are different. If no one takes the leap then we stagnate. Stagnation is impossible when it comes to Humans. Right now we have characters in videogames who are openly gay (Fallout). Taking the next leap is inevitable. People like me only want the transition to be as smooth as possible. Don't want another stupid FOX thing to come around again.

If you were talking about any other subject I would agree with you on the "times being different", but religion is one of the few subjects that people are still willing to kill each other over.  The purpose of ME is to tell an epic story about overcoming enourmous obstacles to save the galaxy (or let it be destroyed if you are a serious renegade), not to wade into the culture wars.  I personally don't care what religion Shep is, his/her purpose is to advance the narrative and give us a feeling of ownership of the story. 

If Bioware wades to far into the religion debate it is going to ****** off a large group of people, and I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of discussion.   Lots of people think that video games will become the premire artistic vehicle for the next few generations, meaning that (like cinema in the 20th century) it will be a platform to discuss big issues like religion, gender discrimination, homophobia, etc.  I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want my favorite franchise to get bogged down in this debate, because I don't think we as a society are ready to intellegenlty discuss this subject through this medium at the present time.  Give it a few more years and then make a game that takes a daring stand on this issue. 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I just want to have fun defeating the Reapers and advancing the story to its final conclusion.  

[CroGamer002]

Mario: Catholic, his family was strongly catholic but he wasn't much into it
Maria: No religion, attracted to Christianity
Bruce: Protestant, do to lack of teaching he ain't strongly into it
Mei: Shinto, really heavy into it
Tom: Catholic, really heavy into it
Venus: no religion, she finds it ridiculous
Johnson: no religion, never cared about. Might change in ME3
John: no religion, never cared about it
Natascha: Orthodox, not very strong into it
Ubel: no religion, he find religion idiotic
Elizabeth: no religion, open for religion though
Gareth: no religion, never cared about it

Modifié par Mesina2, 19 avril 2011 - 06:15 .

[Pwener2313]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

FearedZero wrote...

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

They are Cthonic horrors from beyond the stars that inspire insanity to all who look upon them for too long.

Huh......

[ObserverStatus]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

FearedZero wrote...

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

They are Cthonic horrors from beyond the stars that inspire insanity to all who look upon them for too long.

Sort of like MissingNo. ?
IA IA MISSINGNO FTAGN. BENEATH CINNIBAR ISLAND HE LIES.

Modifié par bobobo878, 19 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[Pwener2313]

mereck7980 wrote...

If you were talking about any other subject I would agree with you on the "times being different", but religion is one of the few subjects that people are still willing to kill each other over.  The purpose of ME is to tell an epic story about overcoming enourmous obstacles to save the galaxy (or let it be destroyed if you are a serious renegade), not to wade into the culture wars.  I personally don't care what religion Shep is, his/her purpose is to advance the narrative and give us a feeling of ownership of the story. 

If Bioware wades to far into the religion debate it is going to ****** off a large group of people, and I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of discussion.   Lots of people think that video games will become the premire artistic vehicle for the next few generations, meaning that (like cinema in the 20th century) it will be a platform to discuss big issues like religion, gender discrimination, homophobia, etc.  I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want my favorite franchise to get bogged down in this debate, because I don't think we as a society are ready to intellegenlty discuss this subject through this medium at the present time.  Give it a few more years and then make a game that takes a daring stand on this issue. 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I just want to have fun defeating the Reapers and advancing the story to its final conclusion.  

Your right, but I believe in equality in this life. Im just too fair when it comes to everything, even if it means pissing others off. But then again, if the wanna get angry, let them.

[AngelicMachinery]

bobobo878 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

FearedZero wrote...

I thought the Reapers were the gods. My Shepard believes in the Reapers.

They are Cthonic horrors from beyond the stars that inspire insanity to all who look upon them for too long.

Sort of like MissingNo. ?
IA IA MISSINGNO FTAGN. BENEATH CINNIBAR ISLAND HE LIES.

That was a really cool read, thanks.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Pwener2313 wrote...

mereck7980 wrote...

If you were talking about any other subject I would agree with you on the "times being different", but religion is one of the few subjects that people are still willing to kill each other over.  The purpose of ME is to tell an epic story about overcoming enourmous obstacles to save the galaxy (or let it be destroyed if you are a serious renegade), not to wade into the culture wars.  I personally don't care what religion Shep is, his/her purpose is to advance the narrative and give us a feeling of ownership of the story. 

If Bioware wades to far into the religion debate it is going to ****** off a large group of people, and I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of discussion.   Lots of people think that video games will become the premire artistic vehicle for the next few generations, meaning that (like cinema in the 20th century) it will be a platform to discuss big issues like religion, gender discrimination, homophobia, etc.  I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want my favorite franchise to get bogged down in this debate, because I don't think we as a society are ready to intellegenlty discuss this subject through this medium at the present time.  Give it a few more years and then make a game that takes a daring stand on this issue. 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I just want to have fun defeating the Reapers and advancing the story to its final conclusion.  

Your right, but I believe in equality in this life. Im just too fair when it comes to everything, even if it means pissing others off. But then again, if the wanna get angry, let them.

I have to disagree with the idea that ME doesn't go into the topic of religion. Sure it may not do it up-front, but do you honestly think that the idea of Shepard being killed then brought back to life (in the Lazarus Project-- for those who don't know, there is a story in the Bible about how Jesus raised a man named Lazarus from the dead), and being the "Saviour of the Galaxy" had no Messianic overtones? None at all? Pff...

Of course, that doesn't necessarily imply religion, but the Messianic Archetype is obviously identified very closely with religion itself, which is why I bring it up here.

[Pwener2313]

So Shepard is the new Messiah of the galaxy having been brought to life? inda would make sense for BW to do something like that and play it behind the shadows. I myself believe that Shepard is immortal or near at least at this point, being undead and stuff. There isn't even any indication he even needs to eat or sleep. This needs to be explained. Is Shepard near immortal?

[Urdnot Orrad]

Pwener2313 wrote...

So Shepard is the new Messiah of the galaxy having been brought to life? inda would make sense for BW to do something like that and play it behind the shadows. I myself believe that Shepard is immortal or near at least at this point, being undead and stuff. There isn't even any indication he even needs to eat or sleep. This needs to be explained. Is Shepard near immortal?

Well, as close to immortal as one can be in a sci-fi setting that isn't Star Wars.

[2kgnsiika]

I, as a Catholic Christian, see the Mass Effect universe as contradictory to certain Christian dogmas.

Anyone who has read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy, for example, will know what I'm talking about. Since no other race seems to have a similar notion of God as Christian humans do, Christianity cannot be objectively true in the Mass Effect universe. If the doctrine of the Fall, for example, were true in the ME universe, you'd expect to find at least some unfallen races, and among those who have fallen you'd expect to have.

The existence of true AIs also contradicts the Christian notion of rationality, which is a quality only endowed by God to certain creatures, as opposed to something that can be artificially reproduced.

So I myself think of Mass Effect as a kind of atheistic materialist fantasy, but a very enjoyable fantasy, nonetheless.
And don't think I'm trying to debate Christianity vs. any other world view (like atheism) here. I'm just saying that in the ME universe, Christianity cannot be objectively true.

Modifié par 2kgnsiika, 19 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[mereck7980]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

mereck7980 wrote...

If you were talking about any other subject I would agree with you on the "times being different", but religion is one of the few subjects that people are still willing to kill each other over.  The purpose of ME is to tell an epic story about overcoming enourmous obstacles to save the galaxy (or let it be destroyed if you are a serious renegade), not to wade into the culture wars.  I personally don't care what religion Shep is, his/her purpose is to advance the narrative and give us a feeling of ownership of the story. 

If Bioware wades to far into the religion debate it is going to ****** off a large group of people, and I just don't think that this is the place for that kind of discussion.   Lots of people think that video games will become the premire artistic vehicle for the next few generations, meaning that (like cinema in the 20th century) it will be a platform to discuss big issues like religion, gender discrimination, homophobia, etc.  I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want my favorite franchise to get bogged down in this debate, because I don't think we as a society are ready to intellegenlty discuss this subject through this medium at the present time.  Give it a few more years and then make a game that takes a daring stand on this issue. 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I just want to have fun defeating the Reapers and advancing the story to its final conclusion.  

Your right, but I believe in equality in this life. Im just too fair when it comes to everything, even if it means pissing others off. But then again, if the wanna get angry, let them.

I have to disagree with the idea that ME doesn't go into the topic of religion. Sure it may not do it up-front, but do you honestly think that the idea of Shepard being killed then brought back to life (in the Lazarus Project-- for those who don't know, there is a story in the Bible about how Jesus raised a man named Lazarus from the dead), and being the "Saviour of the Galaxy" had no Messianic overtones? None at all? Pff...

Of course, that doesn't necessarily imply religion, but the Messianic Archetype is obviously identified very closely with religion itself, which is why I bring it up here.

Drawing a reference from religion and openly embracing a religion are two different things.  I agree that the idea of Shepard (the name itself has religious overtones) saving the galaxy and being raised from the dead by the Lazarus project are all direct references to Christianity.  I think the references are fine and proper given the subject matter.  I just don't want Shepard openly talking about worshiping Jesus, Allah, or his reverance for his ancestors in the game.  That kind of narrative choice will take the game in a direction that will lead it away from its intended purpose and into a place that opens it to scorn and riddicule becuase it will inevitably ****** people off.  

[Pwener2313]

2kgnsiika wrote...

I, as a Catholic Christian, see the Mass Effect universe as contradictory to certain Christian dogmas.

Anyone who has read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy, for example, will know what I'm talking about. Since no other race seems to have a similar notion of God as Christian humans do, Christianity cannot be objectively true in the Mass Effect universe. If the doctrine of the Fall, for example, were true in the ME universe, you'd expect to find at least some unfallen races, and among those who have fallen you'd expect to have.

The existence of true AIs also contradicts the Christian notion of rationality, which is a quality only endowed by God to certain creatures, as opposed to something that can be artificially reproduced.

So I myself think of Mass Effect as a kind of atheistic materialist fantasy, but a very enjoyable fantasy, nonetheless.
And don't think I'm trying to debate Christianity vs. any other world view (like atheism) here. I'm just saying that in the ME universe, Christianity cannot be objectively true.

Exactly. This one of the reasons why this is such a touchy subject. Im surprised it hasn't turned ugly yet and I thank all of you for keeping it that way.

[ObserverStatus]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
That was a really cool read, thanks.

There's always something interesting to read on destructoid.

[Urdnot Orrad]

2kgnsiika wrote...

I, as a Catholic Christian, see the Mass Effect universe as contradictory to certain Christian dogmas.

Anyone who has read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy, for example, will know what I'm talking about. Since no other race seems to have a similar notion of God as Christian humans do, Christianity cannot be objectively true in the Mass Effect universe. If the doctrine of the Fall, for example, were true in the ME universe, you'd expect to find at least some unfallen races, and among those who have fallen you'd expect to have.

The existence of true AIs also contradicts the Christian notion of rationality, which is a quality only endowed by God to certain creatures, as opposed to something that can be artificially reproduced.

So I myself think of Mass Effect as a kind of atheistic materialist fantasy, but a very enjoyable fantasy, nonetheless.
And don't think I'm trying to debate Christianity vs. any other world view (like atheism) here. I'm just saying that in the ME universe, Christianity cannot be objectively true.

Personally? I go with the belief that since God can do whatever He wants, then if he wanted to give rationality/sentience to AIs, then He could certainly do so. That's why I said earlier that I believe that "all sentient beings have souls".

Of course Christianity cannot be viewed objectively in ME, and I have no problem with that. The universe of ME and the scenarios it provided gave me some thought-provoking material to chew over, and it allowed me to actually think of how Christianity could be viewed in that universe. Know what I mean?

[Pwener2313]

bobobo878 wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
That was a really cool read, thanks.

There's always something interesting to read on destructoid.

They have a hot caster too.



Hawt 

[2kgnsiika]

Pwener2313 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

I, as a Catholic Christian, see the Mass Effect universe as contradictory to certain Christian dogmas.

Anyone who has read C.S. Lewis' space trilogy, for example, will know what I'm talking about. Since no other race seems to have a similar notion of God as Christian humans do, Christianity cannot be objectively true in the Mass Effect universe. If the doctrine of the Fall, for example, were true in the ME universe, you'd expect to find at least some unfallen races, and among those who have fallen you'd expect to have.

The existence of true AIs also contradicts the Christian notion of rationality, which is a quality only endowed by God to certain creatures, as opposed to something that can be artificially reproduced.

So I myself think of Mass Effect as a kind of atheistic materialist fantasy, but a very enjoyable fantasy, nonetheless.
And don't think I'm trying to debate Christianity vs. any other world view (like atheism) here. I'm just saying that in the ME universe, Christianity cannot be objectively true.

Exactly. This one of the reasons why this is such a touchy subject. Im surprised it hasn't turned ugly yet and I thank all of you for keeping it that way.

I, too, hope that people can discuss the subject civilly, because looking at the metaphysical side of Mass Effect can be quite interesting.

And it's not impossible at all for a religious person, like me, to enjoy it tremendously. I can enjoy a good story in a materialist setting just like an atheist can enjoy reading The Lord of the Rings.

[2kgnsiika]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Of course Christianity cannot be viewed objectively in ME, and I have no problem with that. The universe of ME and the scenarios it provided gave me some thought-provoking material to chew over, and it allowed me to actually think of how Christianity could be viewed in that universe. Know what I mean?

What I actually meant was that Christianity (or other Abrahamic religions) cannot be true in any meaningful sense in the ME universe. Other theistic religions might be compatible with the ME universe, but Christianity could certainly not. Shepard's death and resurrection is another good example. Assuming he was really "dead as dead can be," there's no way he could have been brought back to life through scientific means, unless the universe is essentially materialist.