289 réponses à ce sujet

[Pwener2313]

2kgnsiika wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Of course Christianity cannot be viewed objectively in ME, and I have no problem with that. The universe of ME and the scenarios it provided gave me some thought-provoking material to chew over, and it allowed me to actually think of how Christianity could be viewed in that universe. Know what I mean?

What I actually meant was that Christianity (or other Abrahamic religions) cannot be true in any meaningful sense in the ME universe. Other theistic religions might be compatible with the ME universe, but Christianity could certainly not. Shepard's death and resurrection is another good example. Assuming he was really "dead as dead can be," there's no way he could have been brought back to life through scientific means, unless the universe is essentially materialist.

If my theory holds any weight, it explains the Lazarus Project so it fits with the religious continuity. But since no aliens knew who God was, the fact that God exists holds no truth in the ME universe or any involving aliens with they're own religions.

[AngelicMachinery]

2kgnsiika wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Of course Christianity cannot be viewed objectively in ME, and I have no problem with that. The universe of ME and the scenarios it provided gave me some thought-provoking material to chew over, and it allowed me to actually think of how Christianity could be viewed in that universe. Know what I mean?

Assuming he was really "dead as dead can be," there's no way he could have been brought back to life through scientific means, unless the universe is essentially materialist.

Interestingly enough,  I've wondered if Shepherd really is the same person she was before her death or if she's closer to something like a awakened Ghola from Dune.  I suppose that's neither here nor there though.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 19 avril 2011 - 06:56 .

[Dante Angelo]

My main Shepard believes in the greek pantheon.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

The existence of a perfect God who created everything in the real world is extremely unlikely, given how much of a mess things are on Earth (and I'm not just talking about humanity here, but nature as a whole), but in the ME verse... an endless cycle of all-powerful machines destroying ALL LIFE and then seeding it back, starting the process all over again... there is nobody at the wheel, that's for damn sure.

[AngelicMachinery]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

The existence of a perfect God who created everything in the real world is extremely unlikely, given how much of a mess things are on Earth (and I'm not just talking about humanity here, but nature as a whole), but in the ME verse... an endless cycle of all-powerful machines destroying ALL LIFE and then seeding it back, starting the process all over again... there is nobody at the wheel, that's for damn sure.

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

[Pwener2313]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

The existence of a perfect God who created everything in the real world is extremely unlikely, given how much of a mess things are on Earth (and I'm not just talking about humanity here, but nature as a whole)

I really can't argue with that. Sad truth really how ****ed up we humans are.

[2kgnsiika]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Interestingly enough,  I've wondered if Shepherd really is the same person she was before her death or if she's closer to something like a awakened Ghola from Dune.  I suppose that's neither here nor there though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in materialism there's only matter, its movements and its modifications, so there's really no difference. A human brain is just a bunch of particles that can be restored or replicated with sufficiently advanced technology (unless restoring to quantum states of subatomic particles is theoretically impossible).

[2kgnsiika]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

The existence of a perfect God who created everything in the real world is extremely unlikely, given how much of a mess things are on Earth (and I'm not just talking about humanity here, but nature as a whole), but in the ME verse... an endless cycle of all-powerful machines destroying ALL LIFE and then seeding it back, starting the process all over again... there is nobody at the wheel, that's for damn sure.

Or then, to paraphrase Bertrand Russell, it's a universe created by the Devil when God wasn't looking:devil:

[timj2011]

My Shep just doesn't give a f***, he's just out to save lives and get ****es
(both paragon and renegade)

[Anacronian Stryx]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

[Pwener2313]

2kgnsiika wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Interestingly enough,  I've wondered if Shepherd really is the same person she was before her death or if she's closer to something like a awakened Ghola from Dune.  I suppose that's neither here nor there though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in materialism there's only matter, its movements and its modifications, so there's really no difference. A human brain is just a bunch of particles that can be restored or replicated with sufficiently advanced technology (unless restoring to quantum states of subatomic particles is theoretically impossible).

Nope, recreating an artificial brain is impossible. We barely understand it, it would be like creating a spaceship McGiver style.

[2kgnsiika]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

Depends on your definition of omnipotence. See http://en.wikipedia....iki/Omnipotence for clarification.

[Pwener2313]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

You don't understand it. God doesn't follow these human made definitions. We can't possibly hope to grasp what God is in this moronic state in our evolutionary process. I doubt even in the new world we will by that logic. Thing is, nothing is impossible for God. He can do anything, even contradict you without contadicting you. That makes no sense, but he can do it.

[Aumata]

Actually monotheistic beliefs in human society is damn near dying. I think Buddhism, Confusim, and salairan, asari religions are popular. Hinduism might be a popular belief also. Just wanted to point that out.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

You don't understand it. God doesn't follow these human made definitions. We can't possibly hope to grasp what God is in this moronic state in our evolutionary process. I doubt even in the new world we will by that logic. Thing is, nothing is impossible for God. He can do anything, even contradict you without contadicting you. That makes no sense, but he can do it.

I agree with you, but as we both know, this is not the place for such a discussion.

[mereck7980]

2kgnsiika wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Interestingly enough,  I've wondered if Shepherd really is the same person she was before her death or if she's closer to something like a awakened Ghola from Dune.  I suppose that's neither here nor there though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in materialism there's only matter, its movements and its modifications, so there's really no difference. A human brain is just a bunch of particles that can be restored or replicated with sufficiently advanced technology (unless restoring to quantum states of subatomic particles is theoretically impossible).

The tricky part isn't explaining the regeneration and reconstruction of Shepard's tissue, its creating a method of reconstituting Shepard's mind, memories, and personality.  I could concieve of an advancecd method of reanimating dead cells, but not of bringing Shepard's conscience back.  Even if you accept a materialistic frame of reference for the universe this is hard to wrap you head around.  This was one of the few plot points in the game that really required a suspension of belief for me, but who knows what we will be capable of in two-three hundred years.

[Pwener2313]

Indeed it isn't. Let us refrain from such controversial FOX feeding discussions shall we.

[Nashiktal]

God exists
God doesn't exist
God might exist

There got that out of the way for everyone.

[AngelicMachinery]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

So, your using "Can god microwave a burrito so hot, even he can't eat it?" from the Simpsons?  I suppose if that's how you want to quanitify things go a head.  I'm just saying from what I've read the divine tends to give humanity some measure of self control.

[Pwener2313]

mereck7980 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Interestingly enough,  I've wondered if Shepherd really is the same person she was before her death or if she's closer to something like a awakened Ghola from Dune.  I suppose that's neither here nor there though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in materialism there's only matter, its movements and its modifications, so there's really no difference. A human brain is just a bunch of particles that can be restored or replicated with sufficiently advanced technology (unless restoring to quantum states of subatomic particles is theoretically impossible).

The tricky part isn't explaining the regeneration and reconstruction of Shepard's tissue, its creating a method of reconstituting Shepard's mind, memories, and personality.  I could concieve of an advancecd method of reanimating dead cells, but not of bringing Shepard's conscience back.  Even if you accept a materialistic frame of reference for the universe this is hard to wrap you head around.  This was one of the few plot points in the game that really required a suspension of belief for me, but who knows what we will be capable of in two-three hundred years.

I don't mean to sound like a douche, but I explained it in a great way (check sig). But even if it recreating dead people was just technological advancement, then it would be the boom of the century, yet it isn't and no one knows the first thing about it.

[Pwener2313]

Nashiktal wrote...

God exists
God doesn't exist
God might exist

There got that out of the way for everyone.

At least we're not here yet.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Pwener2313 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

You don't understand it. God doesn't follow these human made definitions. We can't possibly hope to grasp what God is in this moronic state in our evolutionary process. I doubt even in the new world we will by that logic. Thing is, nothing is impossible for God. He can do anything, even contradict you without contadicting you. That makes no sense, but he can do it.

How convenient.. but i relent Urdnot Orrad is right this isn't the place.

[Pwener2313]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Pwener2313 wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

A strange way to look at things truthfully,  I suppose I can understand your reasoning but I see no reason for everything to be bubble gum and kittens to proove the existance of a divine being.  Most religions grant humanity free will,  which,  places the blame on the shoulders of the follower not the diety.

Omnipotent Deity is in direct contrast to any type of free will.

If you are all powerful then literary everything will happen according to your design, If you somehow allow something to happen outside your own power (Free will) then you're no longer omnipotent.

You don't understand it. God doesn't follow these human made definitions. We can't possibly hope to grasp what God is in this moronic state in our evolutionary process. I doubt even in the new world we will by that logic. Thing is, nothing is impossible for God. He can do anything, even contradict you without contadicting you. That makes no sense, but he can do it.

How convenient.. but i relent Urdnot Orrad is right this isn't the place.

Convenient? Ooookay...... but yes, this isn't the place. Let us continue to bash Shepard's hipocrasy.

[Urdnot Orrad]

**hypocrisy --And the Grammar **** STRIKES!

... Seriously, did that get censored? Talk about avoiding Godwin's Law...

Modifié par Urdnot Orrad, 19 avril 2011 - 07:37 .