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[Bourne Endeavor]

Woo or whoever discussed this at length when Mass Effect 2 was first released. He was debated into oblivion because half his posts essentially accused everyone of demanding softcore porn. Regardless, it highlighted BioWare's stand and Dragon Age 2 cemented it. We can expect dry humping at best and horrendous PG necking at worst.

This is the problem I have with the gaming industry. Whenever they face controversy of this extent, they cower in the corner immediately. Movies and music faced this level of scrutiny and told people who complained not to purchase it. If the gaming industry stood its ground, people would give up eventually. They whine because it works.

[o Amadeus o]

FearedZero wrote...

go look at porn

This.

Is the most irritating, overused, and lamest argument for not having nudity in Mass Effect and games in general.

While i hated Mass Effect 1, I agree the use of nudity in that game was tastefully done,I'm not saying we should have nudity for the sake of it but show that thier not sime 12-year olds who have never seen the opposite sex naked before.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Woo or whoever discussed this at length when Mass Effect 2 was first released. He was debated into oblivion because half his posts essentially accused everyone of demanding softcore porn. Regardless, it highlighted BioWare's stand and Dragon Age 2 cemented it. We can expect dry humping at best and horrendous PG necking at worst.

This is the problem I have with the gaming industry. Whenever they face controversy of this extent, they cower in the corner immediately. Movies and music faced this level of scrutiny and told people who complained not to purchase it. If the gaming industry stood its ground, people would give up eventually. They whine because it works.

Indeed. The problem is, however, how do we get the gaming industry to stop acting like babies?!

Actually, let me narrow it down: How do we get BIOWARE to stop acting like babies?! I mean, companies like Rockstar have no problem whatsoever in making objectional content, and they only got into actual legal trouble one time, I believe. One time, and they've been making the GTA games like they have for ten years now.

[Harmless Crunch]

Off topic: Wow this turend into a kitteh thread quickly....

On Topic: Eh I do agree that ME2 lacked the same "tastefullniss"as ME1's love scenes. And about the ratings of ME1 and ME2 in different countrys.
I dont know if anybody knew but here in Brittan ME1 is rated 12+
("For moderate violence, moderate swearing and one very breif sex scene") and ME2 is rated
15+ ("For moderate violence, strong swearing and mild sexual scenes").

Whislt ME1 and ME2 share the same rating in the US.

[Creator001]

I dont know how about you, But if i was behind scenes(voice / montage), I wouldnt want that... wh*ring myself to the public.
Itcan be a litle uneasy....

On other hand we could make Love scenes longer ad deeper.
I Dont realy care about "sex scenes"
If some people goning mad when they watch a bunch of pixels making out - I dont blame them.
But it is much beter to have a real special person massage your sholders once in a while....

Before talking about inapropriete scenes in games people shold look around.
This world is full of sex.
If you look left you`ll see a naked Statue,
If you look right you will see a BDSM club members singing "Velvet" Songs.
Dont even try to look straight.. trust me, you dont wana see this.

Honestly I cant even walk 10 seconds without bumping in to some naked chick on book store poster.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

ME1: Occasional and appropriate instances of bare sexuality, with tasteful (widely praised) love scenes.

ME2: High-heels, a** shots and casual sex with an emotionally vulnerable woman... Oh. My.

I suppose the FOX Newsheads would be all for the latter, just as long as it doesn't have any of that evil PARTIAL NUDITY in it. I would especially love to see their breakdown on the whole, "casually sexing a vulnerable woman" thing and the face that psycho-babbling author makes when she sees Bioware's "answer" to her feminism rage over the first game. As drawn-back as the nudity was in ME2, I honestly thought the in-your-face sexuality (squad outfits and... LOW camera angles) were even more offensive than the scant partial nudity in ME1.
Not that I was personally offended by either game...

Seriously, FOX ****ed Bioware's s*** up, and now our favorite company is losing its balls BY THE POUND. Even after the Amazon page for that woman's book was SWAMPED, literally SWAMPED with negative reviews by irritated gamers. That should be a pretty good indicator of the cred Bioware bought itself by including that sex scene.
Hell, even Geoff Keighly went on to defend the game. How the hell could you not interpret that as a good thing, Bioware?

ME1 wasn't gratuitous, it wasn't immature, it wasn't even overly offensive...

[RubiconI7]

I'd rather see Quarians in general..

[Urdnot Orrad]

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

ME1: Occasional and appropriate instances of bare sexuality, with tasteful (widely praised) love scenes.

ME2: High-heels, a** shots and casual sex with an emotionally vulnerable woman... Oh. My.

I suppose the FOX Newsheads would be all for the latter, just as long as it doesn't have any of that evil PARTIAL NUDITY in it. I would especially love to see their breakdown on the whole, "casually sexing a vulnerable woman" thing and the face that psycho-babbling author makes when she sees Bioware's "answer" to her feminism rage over the first game. As drawn-back as the nudity was in ME2, I honestly thought the in-your-face sexuality (squad outfits and... LOW camera angles) were even more offensive than the scant partial nudity in ME1.
Not that I was personally offended by either game...

Seriously, FOX ****ed Bioware's s*** up, and now our favorite company is losing its balls BY THE POUND. Even after the Amazon page for that woman's book was SWAMPED, literally SWAMPED with negative reviews by irritated gamers. That should be a pretty good indicator of the cred Bioware bought itself by including that sex scene.
Hell, even Geoff Keighly went on to defend the game. How the hell could you not interpret that as a good thing, Bioware?

ME1 wasn't gratuitous, it wasn't immature, it wasn't even overly offensive...

^This. And when I read about the woman's "reviews" on Amazon, I lol'd. "I've never read this book, BUT..."

[Kileyan]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Since the whole Fox News fuss a few years back, I don't see BioWare going back to that -- as evidenced by their last three games following ME1. But I want to be proven wrong.

Oh please, that Fox News report was a joke, and free publicity. Seriously, does anyone really believe that 3 day news cycle was anything but positive for the sales? Does anyone remember what the big thing in the news cycle was 2 weeks ago.........no?

No one remembers that Fox News thing except hardcore gamers that bought the game anyway, or were intrigued by side boob blue alien lesbians, then bought the game. 

I doubt Bioware cares what a few old fogeys and a blonde news chick that don't own a game system, never played a game since grade school, said about their game for a 36 hour news cycle.

[Praetor Knight]

Shepard.




Edit: whoa, picture's big. new pick

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 20 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[Bluko]

The logic is if it's okay to shoot people with clothes on, then it's also okay to have sex with clothes on. But as we all know shooting a naked person is wrong, just like having sex with a naked person is also wrong.

But seriously, I don't really mind the ME2 scenes namely cause ME1's we're kind of random to begin with. Like "JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE!" and somehow Shepard can get dressed instantly after. I sort of understand the censorship, but Mass Effect is an adult game. It's not something kids should watch much less play IMO. So if there's some dumb 16 year old playing ME in their parent's living room and then there's the sex scene that pops up, that's their problem.

As for those who are squeamish about any kind of nudity. You you can choose not to have sex (now that's a difficult choice...) in the romances. So if seeing someone's naked back causes you distress or gives you a boner, then don't do it. Thing is Mass Effect is a game mature enough to talk about things like the morality of genocide, but having semi-nude scenes is too extreme? I'm confused. Seriously if you're an actual adult you should be able to handle some  nudity. No one's asking for God of War sex minigames (though it certainly didn't hurt the games sales) or some long drawn out soft porno scence. Most of us just feel the over-censorship of sex is silly when you literally see a woman melted to death before your eyes.

Yeah I wonder which one of those is more damaging to a person's or child's psyche.

[AngelicMachinery]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Shepard.




Edit: whoa, picture's big. new pick

Awwww, cuteness!

[Urdnot Orrad]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Shepard.




Edit: whoa, picture's big. new pick

Awwww, cuteness!

LOL.

[Tirigon]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sorry, I expect all woman will be wearing Quarian body suits during sex in ME3. This doesn't bother me much... I loves me some latex.

It will be a honor to link suits with you.

[ThomasAM]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Shepard.




Edit: whoa, picture's big. new pick

Wrex

[JKoopman]

I wouldn't mind seeing one of those infamous quarian nerve stimulation packages in action. ;3

[byzantine horse]

If a parent or some other buys a game rated 18 for someone younger than 18 and they, somehow, fare ill from playing the game, whose fault is it? The developer's? No, the adult who got the game in the youngster's hands to begin with. Blowing someone's brains out in a game is perfectly fine, but show a woman's ankle and hell breaks loose. Wouldn't encouragement of killing people be worse than encouraging people to be more secually active?

Modifié par byzantine horse, 20 avril 2011 - 12:05 .

[Pani Mauser]

I always found it pretty funny that game is rated 18 (at least, it my country), but max nudity we get is Miranda in her bra and shirtless Jacob.

And if the rating is for violence, it is strange, as in movies violence of such level usually gets rated as PG-13. So why put 18 rating on the game which has nothing to justify such label?

And to 'watch porn' commenters. First go watch some porn, then watch ME1 scenes. If you see no difference between them - go seek professional help.

I'm all for ME1-style scenes. They were beautiful, sensual and tasteful. Though, the dialogs that preceded the scene were much better in ME2. So I think I'd love the mix of two. Great dialogs and beautiful scene for th win.

Though, to be true, scenes with human LIs in ME2 seemed fine to me, but scenes with aliens just left me wondering if anything happened at all. Like with Garrus, I'm not sure if there was something more than just a hug. If with Tali you at least get confirmation in dialog afterwards, with Garrus you just don't know.

[MrGone]

On the one hand, BioWare seems to have taken the Fox News "rolled up newspaper on the nose" controversy to heart, and made an effort to include no real, even partial nudity in ME and DA - despite having strip clubs and strippers in ME 1 and 2.

On the other hand:

1) Rockstar had straight up breasts and penis in Red Dead Redemption, as well as a pretty graphic depiction of doggystyle sex - and not one **** was given.
2) Dante's Inferno had a level in the realm of lust where damn nipple monsters showed up, and there was plenty of other nudity in that game-  and not one **** was given.
3) Heavy Rain came out last year which had all but lower-frontal nudity on two of it's four main characters, and a (sort of) tastefully done sex scene- and not one **** was given.

I think ME1 whethered the brunt of this storm, and now they really shouldn't give a damn. Especially if other companies are going to take advantage of the fact that BioWare's efforts sort of paved the way for them.

That being said: artfully please. I'm thinking more along the lines of your standard Hollywood sex scene which doesn't usually make sense (seriously, notice how post coitus characters the woman always has the sheet covering her breasts while the man let's his chest go uncovered? With the same sheet?) but let's us know that at least the characters DID get naked.

Modifié par MrGone, 20 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[MrGone]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Woo or whoever discussed this at length when Mass Effect 2 was first released. He was debated into oblivion because half his posts essentially accused everyone of demanding softcore porn. Regardless, it highlighted BioWare's stand and Dragon Age 2 cemented it. We can expect dry humping at best and horrendous PG necking at worst.

This is the problem I have with the gaming industry. Whenever they face controversy of this extent, they cower in the corner immediately. Movies and music faced this level of scrutiny and told people who complained not to purchase it. If the gaming industry stood its ground, people would give up eventually. They whine because it works.

Agreed.

I think this is actually the biggest problem with the majority of the gaming industry. Way too much worry over lawsuits, and a total willingness to back down when it comes to artistic integrity.

Actually thinking about it. It's EA's fault!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those who bashes EA regularly or for no reason. But . . .

Remember when they totally bailed during the whole Medal of Honor debacle? ME1 wasn't published by EA, but DAO, DA2 and ME2 were.

And which had the most nudity, even though it was tastefully done?

[Bourne Endeavor]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Indeed. The problem is, however, how do we get the gaming industry to stop acting like babies?!

Actually, let me narrow it down: How do we get BIOWARE to stop acting like babies?! I mean, companies like Rockstar have no problem whatsoever in making objectional content, and they only got into actual legal trouble one time, I believe. One time, and they've been making the GTA games like they have for ten years now.

Unfortunately, little unless we boycotted the game, which is not something anyone would nor should do. At least, not for such minimalistic content. Our only available outlet is this forum and pull on the strings of the dev's marketing pitch, "we listen to our fans!"

Well BioWare, your fans have nigh universally hated your recent PG level romance scenes and ask you either do them properly (ala Mass Effect) or don't bother at all.

Kileyan wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Since the whole Fox News fuss a few years back, I don't see BioWare going back to that -- as evidenced by their last three games following ME1. But I want to be proven wrong.

Oh please, that Fox News report was a joke, and free publicity. Seriously, does anyone really believe that 3 day news cycle was anything but positive for the sales? Does anyone remember what the big thing in the news cycle was 2 weeks ago.........no?

No one remembers that Fox News thing except hardcore gamers that bought the game anyway, or were intrigued by side boob blue alien lesbians, then bought the game. 

I doubt Bioware cares what a few old fogeys and a blonde news chick that don't own a game system, never played a game since grade school, said about their game for a 36 hour news cycle.

So you would prefer to believe BioWare simply had an epiphany and opted to change directions into "baby's first exposure to sex?" The reality is telling that while Faux News' article may appear trivial to the majority, BioWare or EA looked upon it as a legitimate complaint and have thus removed dialed back what was tastefully rendered content.

We can only speculate what the catalyst was; perhaps after Dragon Age: Origins, EA executives were weary of the content or mortified after the plethora of mods depicting explicit scenes. EA has been known to be quite strict in the past. So we cannot be certain they were not somehow involved, otherwise BioWare became nervous.

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

ME1: Occasional and appropriate instances of bare sexuality, with tasteful (widely praised) love scenes.

ME2: High-heels, a** shots and casual sex with an emotionally vulnerable woman... Oh. My.

This is what I cannot fathom. In Mass Effect 2 they seemingly decided sleazy hollywood-esque cheap camera shots of Jacob and Miranda's chest and ass was a better alternative. They fail to realize it instead comes across more as one of the devs came their horny fourteen year old son the camera controls.

[MrGone]

"They fail to realize it instead comes across more as one of the devs came their horny fourteen year old son the camera controls."

I think you meant "gave" instead of "came". That changes the context entirely.

but yeah, I still think the real problem is that Mass Effect 1 was a watershed that BioWare (or EA) won't take advantage of.

By the way a Watershed in this context for those that don't know, is when there is a sea change in public opinion from "unacceptable" to acceptable". A similar context would be how over the years, swearing on television has become more and more prevalent as time goes on, and each show to break new ground gets flak, then others follow suit because the flak wasn't that bad, and so these are the watershed moments.

If you can't take advantage of putting yourself in the line of fire - why put yourself in the line of fire?

[wright1978]

Firstly it does annoy me the prudish puritanical view of sex that exists but while unless people change then we have to work with the imperfect wrld. Therefore I'm not really bothered abut more nudity to be honest. Kissing, groping and cleavage/bare chest is fine for TV so i don't see why it can't be honed to work for games.

I liked Isabela's cut scene in DA2 with the knives. It did the job of conveying a bit more about Isabela in a fun way. My fault with it was length not the fact i didn't see her in her smalls. Also i would have liked some sense as we got closer that you could get a different cut scene.

My memories of Miranda's scene in ME2 was that it was too short and the bra reveal just felt forced, like here's a shot of her cleavage enjoy! I'd prefer if they'd played the reveal in a more comic way. Shep struggling to peel Miranda's top over her head. The more fun the better personally.

What i'd really like to see progressed variety. Mass Effect 3 is perfectly set to carry on evolving relationships as it is highly likely there will be an established LI if the player wanted one. If i disagree with Miranda advice let us argue and then kiss and make up later. Let's see tender moments and the rough and tumble as she handcuffs my shep to the bed. Stagger the cut scenes through the game so that it makes the relationships come alive alongside the story .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

I agree with you for the most part OP. I'm pretty sure most of the ME audience is over 18 so I don't really see the point of making all the smexy scenes PG-13. If EA is worried about controversy they shouldn't be. Contoversy only gives more attention to a product and increases sales.

^ That.

[Urdnot Orrad]

MrGone wrote...

"They fail to realize it instead comes across more as one of the devs came their horny fourteen year old son the camera controls."

I think you meant "gave" instead of "came". That changes the context entirely.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!