35 réponses à ce sujet

[Meteo63]

Hey guys, I've got a question.

I'm a mage that supports everything about mages, but I dislike demons and blood magic. If that is the case, is it better to romance Merrill with rivalry or friendship? I mean, it looks like I could push her either way, depending on what missions I bring her on (pro-mage or anti-blood magic), but from a story perspective, which one gives a "better" plot? Which one is "cooler"? You know what I mean. 

[Forst1999]

The rivalry path is interesting. Hawke suggests he tries to save Merrill from herself. I wouldn't say neccessarily it makes a better plot, but both ways are interesting. Rivalry is no to hard to gain either, just take her along for the Forbidden Knowledge Quest and destroy some tomes.
So if you really despise blood magic, this might be the way to go (even if i don't have a problem with a blood mage who never gave anything to a demon or controlled anybody's mind, but that's of course up to you).

[hoorayforicecream]

The friendship path means Hawke becomes Merrill's rock. Merrill ends up feeling progressively more alone over the course of the story, and Hawke is the only one who supports her.

The rivalry path means that Hawke cares for Merrill, but isn't willing to let Merrill put herself in such danger. Merrill realizes that Hawke cares for her deeply, but has trouble reconciling the two opposing viewpoints until the end.

They are both quite sweet in their own way... if you wanted to roleplay the serious dislike for blood magic, I'd go with rivalry.

[Deified Data]

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

[Tigerking]

Deified Data wrote...

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

But that's the thing: She doesn't self-destruct. I thought it implied, if anything, that Hawke's care for Merrill kept her in control and away from more demonic dealings/general blood mage craziness.

Modifié par Tigerking, 19 avril 2011 - 10:51 .

[Deified Data]

Tigerking wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

But that's the thing: She doesn't self-destruct. I thought it implied, if anything, that Hawke's care for Merrill kept her in control and away from more demonic dealings/general blood mage craziness.

Except when she turns on you in the Fade, at the behest of a pride demon. Hawke's assurances didn't help much, there. Fact is, if it weren't for Merethari, the exact same thing would have happened at the end of her quest - she'd be posessed, because she's too weak to resist it.

[Wulfram]

In practice, the key decision is about whether you give her an apparently inoffensive woodworking tool. Despite my own personal aversion to such things, I can't justify denying it to her and so I prefer the friendship path.

[Tigerking]

Deified Data wrote...

Tigerking wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

But that's the thing: She doesn't self-destruct. I thought it implied, if anything, that Hawke's care for Merrill kept her in control and away from more demonic dealings/general blood mage craziness.

Except when she turns on you in the Fade, at the behest of a pride demon. Hawke's assurances didn't help much, there. Fact is, if it weren't for Merethari, the exact same thing would have happened at the end of her quest - she'd be posessed, because she's too weak to resist it.

Everyone turns on you there, except for Anders, who kind of gamed the system w/Vengeance and all. Would you say then that Aveline is weak-willed/weak-minded? Or Fenris? 
And keep in mind, that whole bit of the Fade was super-weird even by Fade standards, because of Feynriel's influence. I believe that that had quite an influence not only on Merrill, but your whole party in them betraying you. There seemed to be a very strange vibe going on, that hugely amplified their pride and/or desires, even outside of what we've seen as a result of the "normal" Fade. I'm not taking that encounter as indicative of anything.

[hoorayforicecream]

Tigerking wrote...

Everyone turns on you there, except for Anders, who kind of gamed the system w/Vengeance and all. Would you say then that Aveline is weak-willed/weak-minded? Or Fenris? 
And keep in mind, that whole bit of the Fade was super-weird even by Fade standards, because of Feynriel's influence. I believe that that had quite an influence not only on Merrill, but your whole party in them betraying you. There seemed to be a very strange vibe going on, that hugely amplified their pride and/or desires, even outside of what we've seen as a result of the "normal" Fade. I'm not taking that encounter as indicative of anything.

The thing is that it isn't Fenris or Aveline trying to reassure me that everything will be ok when they deal with demons. All of the other companions' attitudes towards demons is negative. Merrill's the only one who actively seeks one out, and then essentially says "Hey Hawke, I need your help. I'm going to ask this demon for help, and I need you to kill me in case it goes south."

She could have been totally right, wrong, or something in between, but we're never given sufficient information to make that call. In doing so, she puts herself in a very bad position for a gamble - if everything goes according to plan, she's gambling her life against possibly finding out why the eluvian isn't working. If everything goes wrong, everyone dies and a powerful abomination runs around Kirkwall. This is why I went rivalry with her after the first playthrough... too much I didn't know, and the impression I got from Merrill was that, while SHE might not care what happened to herself, Hawke, Varric, Isabela, etc. were all very concerned for her well-being and didn't want her to do it because it was simply too risky. 

[Torax]

I lean to Rivalry simply because of the risk is not worth it. After she sacrificed everything else to make the mirror work she was willing to give up her life and even risk the life of her friends to speak to the demon again. Whether or not she was strong enough to face said demon. It's that regard of her life being meaningless compared to an object that had me wanting her to stop. I think it's a compelling way to have a companion relationship change through out a story.

Modifié par Torax, 19 avril 2011 - 11:27 .

[bleetman]

It's the "I need to chat with the demon, come with me in case I get possessed will you? part that irked me the most. Given that my Hawke was rivalmancing Merrill at the time, I would've expected her to smash that damn mirror herself then and there, not offer to help.

Modifié par bleetman, 19 avril 2011 - 11:44 .

[Tigerking]

Hoorayforicecream and torax, you guys both make really good points, part of why I find this the best friendship/rivalry conflict in the game by far as there are great arguments on both sides. I doubt though that Merrill was willing to "give up her life" to speak to the pride demon again, but risk her life? Definitely.
I suppose it all ultimately comes down to whether you trust Merrill in what she's doing, or decide it's not worth the risk. As it seems Merrill knows a whole lot more about the situation that Hawke (IE we) do, I generally fall on the friendship side. I suppose it doesn't really matter, as it kind of comes to the same thing in the end.

[Meteo63]

Okay, so looks like both sides potentially make sense. I guess, since I haven't played through to the end yet, I don't know enough about the final result; so I'll just decide based on whether or not I like blood magic and demons (which I don't).

So rivalrytime it is. Though... another question. The dragon age wiki says during one of the mirror quests you can refuse to give Merrill this one plot item and if you do, it turns all of your friendship gain into rivalry points? So it basically forces her to rivalry or friendship status? Does that really happen? I'm just wondering because I want to use Merrill in Act 1, but all of the choices in act one that give rivalry points I probably don't agree with (because they involve siding with templars or being anti-mage or totally evil).

This page: http://dragonage.wik...ki/Mirror_Image

[hoorayforicecream]

You can get up to 155 rivalry points from denying her the item during her companion quest, provided you haven't locked her into friendship already (100%).

[LobselVith8]

Deified Data wrote...

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

I disagree. I don't see anything inherently self-destructive in wanting to uncover the heritage of the People or in using blood magic responsibly, which is what she does over the course of seveal years.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

If you actually care about her, be her rival, because being her friend means aiding her in her self-destruction. She won't like you very much, but it's the responsible thing to do.

I disagree. I don't see anything inherently self-destructive in wanting to uncover the heritage of the People or in using blood magic responsibly, which is what she does over the course of seveal years.

I agree with LobselVith8

• The Eluvian is cleansed, posing no danger.
• Merrill uses Blood Magic safely and for the good of her people. Actual good. She doesn't do needless sacrifices of anyone.
• She's smart enough to recognize that all spirits are dangerous
• Marethari thinks she knows more about an artifact she has said she wants nothing to do with.

[Persephone]

I usually go for rivalry with dear Kitten. (Love it when Izzy calls her that)

Just the "Don't save me........DON'T!" line is worth it.

[TK8]

About the Eluvian:

*Witch hunt spoiler(if it matters)*

If it is the Eluvian from the da:o Dalish origin, don't you take a piece of it while in search for Morrigan?
In that case the mirror can't be finished, because it is missing a piece.

[PseudoEthnic]

TK8 wrote...

About the Eluvian:

*Witch hunt spoiler(if it matters)*

If it is the Eluvian from the da:o Dalish origin, don't you take a piece of it while in search for Morrigan?
In that case the mirror can't be finished, because it is missing a piece.

Merrill only took one shard, and used that to create a new Eluvian. She didn't need all the pieces.

Also, the events of Witch Hunt happened two and a half years after Origins(and a year and a half after recruiting Merrill.)

[nuclearpengu1nn]

LoveHate is much better than LoveLove

[Shacary]

I did the friendmance with her on first PT. I think it is important that she learns for herself what is right or wrong. I think of it like a baby, if they never fall, they never learn to walk. ALtho I might think I know best, how could my Hawke patronize somethign she believes so strongly in? I gave her the tool.... and even tho in my PT hawke loved her, he would have killed her if she failed, becuz he loved her enough to let her " try" for herself.

[Mr.House]

I personally prefer rival path since I like playing an active role is making sure she is save and trying to protect it, it's more sweet in the rival romance imo.

[Shacary]

I never rivalmanced her tbh, I shoudl try it in the name of science.. just hard to be... mean to her lol

[Wowlock]

No matter what, dealing with a demon never ends well. Even the ''helpful'' spirits like Justice knows little about Thedas. They cannot understand what is what in this world soo it leads to destruction or injustice.

No matter what the reason , a demon will always trick you in the end. What would the demon do if Merrill was to release it to the Kirkwall ? Possess Merrill ? Ask her to sacrifice 100 citizens so he can give the info ? Or simply thanks her for freeing him and kills her ?

Sure she seems to know more about this than we are but I call it arrogance or ****iness, not wise. Because of the bug at my friendship path , I wasn't able to complete the quest as I wanted to. Now , I am wondering if I should rivalmance her. Nevertheless , I will build friendship points until she asks for that part of the mirror.

[raziel1980]

Shacary wrote...

I never rivalmanced her tbh, I shoudl try it in the name of science.. just hard to be... mean to her lol

This is my exact problem with rival-mancing her...and I usually have a ton of friendship points with her after act 1 to begin with...I gain something like 20 - 30 pts in friendship just for doing the 'wayword son' quest...that's because I never EVER send him to circle...though I do side with the templars in the act of mercy quest...but I have Anders with me for that one since I ALWAYS rival him( he begins the game in +100 rivalry for me just because of how he treats Merrill ).

edit: from a roleplaying perspective...if you are a blood mage or a reaver( warrior spec) then you really should NOT ever rival Merrill...because that would be hypocritical to me...though the game will never recognize you as either...

Modifié par raziel1980, 23 avril 2011 - 08:05 .