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[LobselVith8]

The dicotomy towards the end of Dragon Age 2 leaves Hawke to decide whether he'll spare or kill Anders, and while there could be implications for sparing or killing Anders in terms of the mage revolution, I wondered what role Hawke could play if he sided with Sebastian, who is the heir to the city-state of Starkhaven. With the loss of its Circle of Magi and as the largest city-state in the Free Marches, it might be a relatively safe haven and refuge for the Champion of Kirkwall (if Hawke doesn't side with the templars and become the Viscount).

The possibility existed in DA:O for the Warden to become Chancellor to the ruler of Ferelden, and I wonder if the same might not be possible for Hawke, whether given a title of nobility or having a position of power if he sided with Sebastian and helped him reclaim Starkhaven. Sebastian doesn't seem to have any experience ruling, since he was raised in the Kirkwall Chantry with Grand Cleric Elthina. Maybe all the claims that Hawke would "rise to power" could happen in DLC where Hawke rises to power in Starkhaven.

[Torax]

I doubt they'd have a DLC character who is already a DLC on his own right to be the main part of another unless it's something like Leliana's song and even then unlike her it would require buying him before you can use the 2nd one? Unless it's a prequel type of scenario. I just don't see them ever doing something extensive with a DLC character. Just like with Shale and the DLC characters for ME2. We at best may get a reference in DA3 maybe. I doubt they would use a DLC character for it. More likely something with Leliana or someone else. Not Sebastian.

[LobselVith8]

Not necessarily DLC, but what Hawke would do post-DA2. Look at DA:O. The Warden could become Chancellor, Teyrn of Gwaren, Bann of the Alienage, given the respective royal boons for the respective Wardens of each Origin. It wasn't an issue of DLC as much as what would happen with the Warden.

Sebastian has repeatedly asked for Hawke's assistance throughout the years, and I don't see why there would be any change in this if Sebastian is determined to rule Starkhaven as the new Prince(which seems likely if he is on the rivalry path, and possibly what might ensue regardless given the destruction of the Kirkwall Chantry and the demise of Grand Cleric Elthina).

[Elessara]

I think Torax's point was that Sebastian himself is a DLC. If you don't buy the DLC you would know nothing of Starkhaven other than the Circle burned down, you wouldn't know Sebastian at all so why would you become any kind of noble there or any kind of chancellor.

[Torax]

Would be like having a 2nd DLC dedicated to Shale. They had no reason to do it. Or a 2nd entire DLC for Kasumi Goto. At best just maybe Sebastian would show up again in DA3. Also keep in mind your idea of a DLC holds no water if you sided with Anders. You would never be allowed to be in the court in Starkhaven. He would never forgive you. So you'd be suggesting a DLC for a DLC Character and one of 2 decisions you can make at the end of DA2. It's a lot of stretching for an excuse to milk Starkhaven for content.

[LobselVith8]

Torax wrote...

Would be like having a 2nd DLC dedicated to Shale. They had no reason to do it. Or a 2nd entire DLC for Kasumi Goto. At best just maybe Sebastian would show up again in DA3. Also keep in mind your idea of a DLC holds no water if you sided with Anders. You would never be allowed to be in the court in Starkhaven. He would never forgive you. So you'd be suggesting a DLC for a DLC Character and one of 2 decisions you can make at the end of DA2. It's a lot of stretching for an excuse to milk Starkhaven for content.

I'm addressing more the idea of what Hawke would do as opposed to DLC. Although I know it's been stated that Sebastian is being addressed in DLC, it's not clear what type of DLC they will do. Back to my main point, there's no DLC that covered the Hero of Ferelden becoming the Teyrn of Gwaren, the Chancellor to the ruler of Ferelden, or the Bann of the Alienage, but they were possibilities. Why couldn't Hawke having a future in Starkhaven be a real possibility?

[Elessara]

Well I suppose if you want a politically involved DLC where you do nothing much except administrative duties and giving your opinion on how to run the country/city state ....

[Halo Quea]

Torax wrote...

I doubt they'd have a DLC character who is already a DLC on his own right to be the main part of another unless it's something like Leliana's song and even then unlike her it would require buying him before you can use the 2nd one? Unless it's a prequel type of scenario. I just don't see them ever doing something extensive with a DLC character. Just like with Shale and the DLC characters for ME2. We at best may get a reference in DA3 maybe. I doubt they would use a DLC character for it. More likely something with Leliana or someone else. Not Sebastian.

Exactly. Sebastian is DLC, so it would mean creating DLC for a  DLC character.    I don't think much else will happen with Sebastion anyway.   Besides, everyone leaves the Champion's side.   Giving you a hint that perhaps another "awakenings" type of expansion with new characters may be on the way.  

I WON'T be purchasing it though.  Whatever it is.   

[Elessara]

Everyone leaves the Champion's side *except* the LI ... so that means they'll have to find a way to ditch the LI.

[LobselVith8]

Elessara wrote...

Well I suppose if you want a politically involved DLC where you do nothing much except administrative duties and giving your opinion on how to run the country/city state ....

Why would it need to be DLC? I'm stating it as a possibility as to what Hawke could be doing post-the Right of Annulment. If Cassandra is seeking out the Champion as a means to get the hero of the mages on her side, it stands to reason Hawke is doing something in the past three years he wasn't in Kirkwall. It only took a few lines with the Warden to establish what they wanted - the royal boon - and what they would be doing after the Blight ended. DA2 never afforded us a chance to establish what we wanted Hawke to do, particularly if we didn't side with the templars and didn't become the new Viscount of Kirkwall.

Why couldn't Hawke assist Sebastian in regaining Starkhaven without it being a seperate DLC? It's not like we got a seperate DLC dictating how the Warden was running Gwaren as the new Teyrn, or how the Warden was running the Alienage as the new elven Bann, or even how the Warden was helping run Ferelden as the Chancellor to the ruler of Ferelden.

[Elessara]

Ok so then the point of this thread is pure speculation on what Hawke could be doing as we have no idea at this point. Just clarifying.

However the point still stands that many do not have the Exiled Prince DLC so why would they even go to Starkhaven? Others that do have the DLC don't recruit Sebastian (I know a couple of times I haven't bothered) and if such si the case I would assume that Sebastian died in the Chantry when it went boom as that's usually where he hung out.

Also if the Champion were in Starkhaven I would assume also that this would be known information. Varric would be able totell Cassandra hey the Champion was in Starkhaven the last I heard.

[LobselVith8]

Elessara wrote...

Ok so then the point of this thread is pure speculation on what Hawke could be doing as we have no idea at this point. Just clarifying.

The developers could do anything with DLC or an expansion, so this thread is indeed speculation on what the Champion could be doing.

Elessara wrote...

However the point still stands that many do not have the Exiled Prince DLC so why would they even go to Starkhaven? Others that do have the DLC don't recruit Sebastian (I know a couple of times I haven't bothered) and if such si the case I would assume that Sebastian died in the Chantry when it went boom as that's usually where he hung out.

And if the Warden brought along Shale and didn't kill her, Wynne goes to Tevinter with her in the hopes that the mages might have a solution that could reverse Shale being a golem. I'm only pondering the possibility of what Hawke could be doing, and what might be addressed (verbally) if we, as the protagonist, have a choice in the matter. It's not like we couldn't have an expansion that takes place elsewhere and have Sebastian ask Hawke to help him reclaim Starkhaven, and offer him (and possibly Bethany and his LI) a position of authority and power once he claims the throne as Prince.

Elessara wrote...

Also if the Champion were in Starkhaven I would assume also that this would be known information. Varric would be able totell Cassandra hey the Champion was in Starkhaven the last I heard.

The Warden could be the new Teyrn of Gwaren or the Bann of the Alienage, and is technically the de facto Arl of Amaranthine if he remained with the order and became the Warden-Commander, and he still vanished, so I don't think it's impossible. It's a lot easier to abduct a dwarf and interrogate him about the Champion than it is a ruling Prince with an army at his disposal.

[stobie]

I would have liked another DLC with Shale. Maybe as a pigeon-stalking dwarf! I adored her.

If they intend to continue with Sebastian - and they apparently do - I hope he gets a grittier side. (I could deal with him as a villain, or at least, roughed up and tougher.) If they bring him back, I hope they drop the incessant preaching - maybe give him a bitter and wry sense of irony. Anything that doesn't involve 'The Maker!'

[Oneiropolos]

We have actually been told that Sebastian's story isn't through by his writer. Saying stuff can't happen because Sebastian was DLC...well, so is Witch Hunt but I think we can assume that when it becomes important again, the game will give us a sum up on what Morrigan did just in case you didn't buy that DLC. It's not like Sebastian is hard to sum up. I mean, even if you friended Sebastian, he's PROBABLY not going to stick with the Chantry after it got blown up. He might be a devout leader, but he's probably going to go, you know, be Prince of Starkhaven. So either way, you end up with Sebastian as leader. He's NOT killable so he survives no matter what.

Sebastian started a precedent by being the first romanceable DLC character, even if it was a limited romance. Shale was fully integrated into the game too, but I would say Sebastian was just as concretely integrated as a companion as any of the others. I could see there being a DLC where if you own the first DLC, it takes in your actions in account (honestly, in reflection, I see Sebastian realizing that threatening to wipe the town out was a jerk move and something he did only out of his own pain in the moment. It's more in character for him to not be happy with you, but forgive you). If you don't have the DLC, then you get a sum up of who Sebastian is, that he was in Kirkwall but had never met the Champion, and he was at some sort of meeting the day Anders blew up the Chantry. Then you have a setting to have a DLC in Starkhaven. It's not that hard to pull off. Those who don't WANT to see Sebastian again don't have to buy the DLC. Frankly, I'd love it for those who romanced him and want more depth to that whole not-even-getting-a-kiss. It'd only be fair. Witch Hunt let the Warden wrap up romance with Morrigan and Lelaina's song was.. you know, about her even if it wasn't an extension of the romance. There was no Zevran or Alistair DLC. Anders DLC is horribly unlikely considering it has been confirmed that Anders STAYS dead if you killed him and that's final and he seems to die 50% of the time. Plus Apostate-Running-Through-Forest would probably get old fast. Fenris DLC would be interesting but his issues kind of got wrapped up in the game and I'd honestly rather they just add him in to the next game some way more than just a cameo. So, Sebastian is the choice in terms of male character DLC who is also a love interest. Yes, he's a DLC. But he's an LI. He's already broke the rules once, I don't seem them hesitating in doing it again if there's a good story to tell there.

[Wulfram]

I'm not sure having a notorious apostate like Hawke hanging around would be a good idea for the ruler of Starkhaven. Unless he wants to have half the Continent trying to kill him.

[Halo Quea]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Oneiropolos wrote...

We have actually been told that Sebastian's story isn't through by his writer. 

Yep, and here's the proof.

http://social.biowar...ex/6654731&lf=8

Yeah I could see how Bioware might create some content with Starkhaven and you meet Sebastian there the first time. That would eliminate the need for gamers to purchase The Exiled Prince if they didn't already own it. No matter what the story, one could always assume that Sebastian went home after the mess in Kirkwall.  There wouldn't be much of a reason for him to stick around with Elthina and the Chantry destroyed.

[Wulfram]

They could also bundle The Exiled Prince with the new DLC.

[LobselVith8]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Or the Starkhaven stuff could be included in an expansion.

Possibly. It is the largest city-state in the Free Marches, after all. I'd imagine Starkhaven would have a great deal of influence in the Free Marches and possibly with how the other city-states react to the revolution with the mages and the templars, and I wonder whether the writers will allow a Sebastian who was convinced to help the mages of the Kirkwall Circle to be different than one who left in anger that Anders being left alive.

[Oneiropolos]

Well, plus, I mean, yes, having an apostate around could be 'bad' but on the other hand, it's sounding like everyone wants to kill everyone else by the time the Seekers are asking about Hawke. As a Viscount, you'd be an ally to Starkhaven because even if you made Sebastian storm off by sparing Anders, Anders is a moron and decides to fight you in the gallows if you side with the Templars. So you killed him and Sebastian could see that as the end of the matter. If killed Anders and sided with the mages, Sebastian sides with you- so in that situation, he actually seems to be taking a more lenient view on apostates. He'd have to admit he ran around with two/potentially three if Hawke is one during those years, and only one of them is really responsible for the Chantry business. If you let Anders live and sided with the mages, well, you could be an icon for the mages and help Starkhaven with issues going on...just uhm, Anders is kinda dumb as has been demonstrated, so you might want to tell him to go wait in the forest while you're busy. Or for all we would know, Vengeance could take over Anders entirely, permanently, and Sebastian gets the killing blow in and saves the life of your Hawke if you let Anders live and are currently with Anders. That would neatly wrap up a "Okay, guys, Anders is dead. No. Really. Dead." And let them not worry about trying to weave Anders into any other DLC or expansions. It'd just be a Anders-Always-is-Dead, just how he dies would have differed. It could let the people who complain that Sebastian should have just killed him if he was going to 'whine so much' have a chance to have Sebastian do just that.

I think there's quite a few routes they could go. I'd love to see it as a DLC myself just because.. I'm impatient to see it and I'm afraid an expansion or waiting till DAIII would mean "You see Sebastian for five minutes! Oh, you didn't kill Anders. He's still mad at Hawke!" and I feel like people see him as a shallow character as is, which I think is just people mostly being determined to hate him and not giving him even half the benefit of a doubt they give their favorite characters just because seeing things on the other side would be inconvenient. If he just got a cameo or such without a solid significance, I'd feel that'd just play into the argument that he's DLC, and that's what we can expect from DLC characters. I don't think that's the direction Bioware is going with DLC and even if people don't like Sebastian, I feel what he REPRESENTS as DLC could bring so much to future games and even future DLC-introduced characters. It's taking "No, this character will say a few things if you click on things in the room" to a fully "You can play the game without this character, and you'll still get the full plot, but having this character will make you feel even more immersed." And personally, if I'm going to pay extra for DLC- and I will. I know I will. As long as it's not just an appearance pack, I will - I like the thought of them being fully integrated characters with interesting quests and where it isn't said that THIS can't happen because THAT character was DLC.

If you never enlist Isabella, you still have a full game, honestly. I think it'd be missing a little here and there of holes that were filled in by her presence, but you'd still have a full game. But things are BETTER with her there. And I think that's, ultimately, what DLC should be. (Yes, I know she's not DLC, but she was the first solid "Can be skipped" characters out of the mains I could think of.) DLC, when you're paying 8 extra bucks for it, should feel like you're adding something worthwhile to your game. It totally doesn't always feel that way. But I think it should. Without going "Screw you all who won't pay the extra money for the DLC". It should be bonus, but worthwhile bonus. And unlike the "Here's a new quest" DLCs that have gotten released before (ME seems worse about this than DA has been) that you really only want to play through once to find out what happens and then it's waiting again, a DLC strikes me as something that should be worthwhile on your first playthrough, your second, your third...so forth. The reason why I say ME is worse about it is because ME has two DLC's that I can think of that are "Shepherd's going to go in ALONE or just with THIS CHARACTER." and when you can bring a party, they're silent. The first time I took Isabella along into the Harrimman's mansion? I died laughing. It was something new, and that surprised me because I hadn't taken her the first time. I LOVED seeing that.

Edit: ::winces:: And I saw how long this was after I posted. I don't feel like editing it down so uh....skim if it bores you? Sorry!

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 21 avril 2011 - 07:14 .

[Dave of Canada]

Hepler did mention that Sebastian's story wasn't over yet.