20 réponses à ce sujet

[Halo Quea]

 None of their spell are on the talent trees.  

They have powerful energy wave spells that explode and wipe my team out in seconds on the higher game settings.   They also have stealth and teleportation, something I wouldn't mind having.   You would think the mage would have this skill, but instead it's a skill given only to rogues.   The rogue can teleport and the mage can't?  

I've also noticed that spells that are supposed to disorientate enemies really don't do what they're supposed to do either.  

And I wonder what the cooldown is for enemy mages because they use their spells with far greater frequency than Hawke or my mage companions are able to.  <_<

And finally, why doesn't Hawke have a Champion specialization for his/her class as our companions do?  

[lobi]

Halo Quea wrote...

 None of their spell are on the talent trees.  

They have powerful energy wave spells that explode and wipe my team out in seconds on the higher game settings.   They also have stealth and teleportation, something I wouldn't mind having.   You would think the mage would have this skill, but instead it's a skill given only to rogues.   The rogue can teleport and the mage can't?  

They are using cross combos with other classes. See Merrils spells for teleporting thru the ground to appear beside a Teammate.
It makes sense that there would be more powerful mages than the PC. PC only really has one offence spell when starting. Perhaps Father Hawk did not teach them much more than how to resist demons so they would not cast and draw attention. Some mages may be Tevinter trained or escaped from Fereldon after fighting in the war. Escaped mages from Starkhaven or Kirkwall have been trained their whole lives to weild magic.
It is constantly stressed in game dialogue that although Hawk is talented Hawk is by no means the most powerful, charismatic or smartist person in Kirkwall.

[mr_afk]

lobi wrote...

It makes sense that there would be more powerful mages than the PC. PC only really has one offence spell when starting. Perhaps Father Hawk did not teach them much more than how to resist demons so they would not cast and draw attention. Some mages may be Tevinter trained or escaped from Fereldon after fighting in the war. Escaped mages from Starkhaven or Kirkwall have been trained their whole lives to weild magic.
It is constantly stressed in game dialogue that although Hawk is talented Hawk is by no means the most powerful, charismatic or smartist person in Kirkwall.

Lies! Hawke is all-powerful!!! haha pretty sure that magic (power-wise) runs in the bloodline and the amell and the hawke line had ridiculously powerful mages in it (e.g. the non-canonised warden cousin who saves the universe [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]).

But that aside, I think what Halo Quea is getting at is the way common mage-thugs etc can dish out spells that can one-shot your entire party whereas Hawke has to whittle the enemies health away, bit by bit. It sorta makes sense that the qunari could have some exotic spells which Hawke doesn't know how to do, but a random blood mage off the street?
To answer that question with another question, "why can't the enemies pull of abyss your whole party together, hold them compelety still with a gravitic ring, then nuke the hell out them?" I bet there's plenty of enemy mages out there wishing they had access to those spells. haha

Modifié par mr_afk, 20 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[spacepopeadventures]

lobi wrote...

It is constantly stressed in game dialogue that although Hawk is talented Hawk is by no means the most powerful, charismatic or smartist person in Kirkwall.

Really? Seems to me that Hawke is pretty much the most powerful (and possibly the dumbest) person in Kirkwall. Every bit of Hawke's prominence came from him/her killing the hell out of something. That's kind of all s/he does.

Modifié par spacepopeadventures, 20 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[lobi]

Why are you guys saying how Hawk is an awesome powerhouse? Are you all being selfish with the buff and boost jewelry? Ignoring that the party are using abilities that enhance Hawks and each others attack defence? Taking ages to finish a battle? Dragging emo anders around just for the heals? or, playing on casual? Even the desire demon says he is beneath notice!
Hawk is a fourth teir specialist elevated thru circumstance.
Your ego's will not let you admit the fact because you are used to 'Saving teh Universe' in game.

Modifié par lobi, 20 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[Roxlimn]

Halo Quea:

The reason the NPC magics are so powerful is because of the difficulty setting. Putting the setting on Nightmare artificially inflates enemy HP, damage, and power frequency. If you want Hawke to be similarly powerful, turn down the difficulty to Casual. I guarantee that a single Fireball from Hawke at that setting will decimate entire hordes of enemies.

[mr_afk]

lobi wrote...

Why are you guys saying how Hawk is an awesome powerhouse? Are you all being selfish with the buff and boost jewelry? Ignoring that the party are using abilities that enhance Hawks and each others attack defence? Taking ages to finish a battle? Dragging emo anders around just for the heals? or, playing on casual? Even the desire demon says he is beneath notice!
Hawk is a fourth teir specialist elevated thru circumstance.
Your ego's will not let you admit the fact because you are used to 'Saving teh Universe' in game.

That must be it. I'm sure you somehow gave all those tomes which are locked to Hawke to your party members right? Or maybe you were generous and gave the +attribute opportunities to all your companions?
Basically, no matter what class you play, Hawke's specialisations and potential for so many more talents and attributes (yes yes greedy selfish me) makes him/her the best member of your party - whether it be at buffing your party (spirit healer), tanking, or dps. 

As I tend towards glass cannon builds I can assure you that Hawke completely outstrips all the companions in terms of damage - if you build him/her right. If you doubt this, check all the nightmare guides out there. Do they say 'hawke is useless, just leave him/her on support while playing the game with fenris?' (who is an utter douchebag - sorry, couldn't help myself, fenris just makes me so angry haha ).

And I don't understand that part about using enhancing abilities? Are you trying to say that by using for example anders for haste and heals that somehow degrades Hawkes abilities? All i'm saying is that hawke has the greatest potential to become whatever you want him/her to be. Even the way hawke can equip gear which enhances stats makes him/her more versatile and better.

Well I guess we're all entitled to our opinions but given the way DA II is about the rise of the champion who, in case you didn't know, is Hawke, you'd hope that he/she would be 'an awesome powerhouse'.

Edit: Thinking about it again, i've a question: Are you talking about the character Hawke based on the story-line saying that he/she is just a normal person, albeit maybe quite talented, who through a series of amazing coincidences ends up achieving what he/she achieves? Or are you talking about Hawke game mechanics-wise. If you are talking about the first one, then I apologise. If you are talking about the latter, then I think my points stand. Hawke is simply the most powerful character in the DAII universe - hence how several people out there have finished the game solo on nightmare difficulty.

p.s. I am so sick of all this he/she nonsense. Someone should invent a less-gender specific word to be used instead...

Modifié par mr_afk, 20 avril 2011 - 06:08 .

[Lumikki]

Roxlimn wrote...

Halo Quea:

The reason the NPC magics are so powerful is because of the difficulty setting. Putting the setting on Nightmare artificially inflates enemy HP, damage, and power frequency. If you want Hawke to be similarly powerful, turn down the difficulty to Casual. I guarantee that a single Fireball from Hawke at that setting will decimate entire hordes of enemies.

I don't think he's talking just for that, I mean not all about powerfulness, but also how they use they abilities and spells. Example player mage barrier spell has 45 second coold down, while enemy has no cool down at all.  Most enemy mages can teleport between places and player mages can't do it at all. Difficulty setting does not affect these at all. Now the other hand how some enemy attacks can simple instant kill you. mm.. player can also do it in lower difficulty.

Hard to say what all enemies can do, but enemies seem to have a few different set of talents/spells or they use same abilities without restrictions what player has.

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 avril 2011 - 07:57 .

[spacepopeadventures]

[Deleted, double-post.]

Modifié par spacepopeadventures, 20 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[spacepopeadventures]

lobi wrote...

Why are you guys saying how Hawk is an awesome powerhouse? Are you all being selfish with the buff and boost jewelry? Ignoring that the party are using abilities that enhance Hawks and each others attack defence? Taking ages to finish a battle? Dragging emo anders around just for the heals? or, playing on casual? Even the desire demon says he is beneath notice!
Hawk is a fourth teir specialist elevated thru circumstance.
Your ego's will not let you admit the fact because you are used to 'Saving teh Universe' in game.

I'm confused.

Are you talking about plot? Plotwise, one branch has Hawke soloing the Arishok. Doesn't sound "fourth-tier" to me!

Are you talking about gameplay? In that case, have a look at some videos. If your Hawke is "fourth-tier", that's all on you.

And of course, it's entirely possible to finish the whole game with only Hawke, settling the question for both gameplay and plot.

I wish Hawke came out on top purely through ingenuity and charm. That would make a far better story. That's not the story we got, though.

Modifié par spacepopeadventures, 20 avril 2011 - 10:25 .

[Icy Magebane]

Enemy mages may have the advantage when it comes to instant kill or just huge damage spells. They have a powerful barrier that makes them annoying at times (which is just Stonewall, as they cannot move)... but the fact is that Hawke has superior spells across the board.

For example, an enemy mage cannot lock your party down in a few moves. They don't have access to Horror, which can disable even the most powerful bosses. Haste? Nope. Not there... I can understand the point of the OP, but you shouldn't scoff at what you have at your disposal. Hawke is by far a more versatile mage. Cherry-pick the best spells and you won't miss not being able to teleport.

[Darqion]

one Arcane horror spell will lock your party down and kill most of them, im not sure what you are talking about. No idea what their spells are called, but that death cloud of theirs, or that aura, it spells instant death if you dont have resistances (although i wouldnt know which to get ')

[Elhanan]

Hawke does not appear to be demonic, infected from Darkspawn, or originate from Tevinter; other differences may apply, too. Even the Circle mages may have access to spells that apostates cannot gather, or vice-versa (eg; Shale's master had stealth spells, Flemeth, etc).

[ajm317]

I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that Hawke is "fourth tier". Maybe in Act I, although even here Varric is singing your praises left and right, if you side with the smugglers it's implied you're the only reason they're not out of business, Fenris sticks around you even if you're a mage because he thinks you can help him etc.  By Act II you're already the Viscount's right hand man and the Arishok is declaring you the only competent human in Kirkwall (and of course at the end of the act you can kill him in one on one combat). By Act III you're the Champion, there's a statue of you in the Docks and Zevran is comparing you to the Warden ("I have no idea why the Crows keep trying to kill people like you and the Warden"). If you side with the mages during the final battle Orsino says stuff like "Can we win? With you, maybe".  You're so powerful they had to give Meredith superpowers from no where to make the final boss fight credible.

Hawke is the biggest badass in Kirkwall. That's pretty much a given in the context of the story. It's true that Hawke is the victim/benefactor of circumstance, but that doesn't take away from Hawke's undeniable talent for killing things. It just demonstrates that sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are or how much you try, some things just can't be changed by one person alone.

Going back to the OP, I agree that this is annoying. One thing that I don't like about DAII compared to Origins is that it feels like me and the enemies are playing a different game. They all have different attacks, passives, boosts, none of which are available to Hawke. I mean sure, Dragons and bosses and things should have their own tricks, but it's kind of annoying that I'm playing checkers and the bad guys are playing Jenga. Half the time I don't even know what they're doing. Ok, that lieutenant just got a big orange whirlwind thing going, what does that mean? 

Modifié par ajm317, 20 avril 2011 - 03:13 .

[spacepopeadventures]

ajm317 wrote...

I mean sure, Dragons and bosses and things should have their own tricks, but it's kind of annoying that I'm playing checkers and the bad guys are playing Jenga. Half the time I don't even know what they're doing. Ok, that lieutenant just got a big orange whirlwind thing going, what does that mean? 

QFT.

[Lumikki]

Yeah, it's little odd, that some enemies does this whirlwind thing and nothing else. It's like they just buff others and if they attack, there is no extra animation for it. Attack just comes from no-where.

[Lasien]

I always try to go after the commander first, simply because the buffs are so irritating. Also, I never really noticed enemy mages using talent hawke can't use, other that the teleport. Which shouldn't be possible, as one of the codex entries specifically talks about how mages cannot move themselves or objects around.

P.S. - I don't think the teleport is supposed to be like merril's vine movement. The enemy always kind of jumps up before disappearing.

[Halo Quea]

ajm317 wrote...

Going back to the OP, I agree that this is annoying. One thing that I don't like about DAII compared to Origins is that it feels like me and the enemies are playing a different game. They all have different attacks, passives, boosts, none of which are available to Hawke. I mean sure, Dragons and bosses and things should have their own tricks, but it's kind of annoying that I'm playing checkers and the bad guys are playing Jenga. Half the time I don't even know what they're doing. Ok, that lieutenant just got a big orange whirlwind thing going, what does that mean? 

Well I start laughing everytime I would see that,  because I know that I can't do anything to break that.  Hawke's spells however CAN be interrupted with devestating effects.  I tend to think this happens mostly because Hawke is always standing in the middle of a crowd of attackers when a fight gets started.  

I would sometimes yell out, "Hawke stop running your mouth, these people have you surrounded!  And since they're not going to listen to you anyway (act 3), stop fooling around and get out of the way!" 

It's really almost cartoonish having to deal with enemies who have a jump on you from the start, then begin unleashing spells with no cooldown penalties, and finally zipping all over the battlefield like ghosts.   The area Hawke has to work in usually cramped anyway, by the time enemies start magically appearing and dropping from the sky, any sort of seriousness to the fighting is lost.  You're either laughing at the ridiculousness of it or just feeling frustrated by it.

Why not let us mages in on the cartoon as well? 

I once watched and counted as Aveline took more than 20 swings at a rogue, this guy was about to die and there was no reason for my mage to even go over there.  I was content in watching my tank take this guy out from a safe distance.  This dude disappears and reappears right behind me and takes me out with one stroke, FULL HEALTH and all.  Then he starts with the yellow swirl and Aveline spends the next 2 minutes taking swing after swing on this one rogue. 

It's during those moments that I really miss Shale. lol!

[tonnactus]

The spells arent powerfull.They only seem so because hawke and every party member have the health of a critter rank enemy. Try playing on nightmare and give a mage winters blast.It could oneshot you as well.

Even if those spells were availbale,they wouldnt be any better then the spells the player have.

Modifié par tonnactus, 21 avril 2011 - 09:49 .

[tonnactus]

Lumikki wrote...

Yeah, it's little odd, that some enemies does this whirlwind thing and nothing else. It's like they just buff others and if they attack, there is no extra animation for it. Attack just comes from no-where.

The commanders just buff and the attack they use is some kind of grenade.They only engage in melee then there is no one else left to kill.