228 réponses à ce sujet

[inkjay]

Pretty much reinforces what people had figured out. Big publishers exchange early access or publicity for the best scores, that's why OXM, OPM, The Escapist and the like (not really the most recognized/respected magazines/sites) are the first reviews to go up, because they rarely give anything but 90+ to "AAA" games.

Waiting for this "confirmation" was unnecessary tho, if you are a regular of GiantBomb you already knew this. EA advertises a lot on that site, DA2 specifically did, but of course, they would've never got a 10 (5 stars from them) so they didn't even send them a review copy after the fact, and to protest (my guess) GB didn't even review the game (after awarding DA:O 5 stars).

There are also many other tricks the publishers use: scores under 85 are embargoed till after the game is out (don't want to mess with those preorders), and many, many sites are "invited" to hotels and other locations for "special access" where they are taken care of, and preview and review the game under special conditions, including but not limited to room service, access to only certain parts of the game, and tons of goodies they get away with after the visit. (everything paid by the publisher of course)

I guess the system is pretty messed up, but who is really at fault here? Publishers gamble tons of money with games (a really stupid practice that became too common this gen) so they are just tipping the scales in their favor, and if sites don't comply they don't get early or future access to heavily expected games, and thus lose publicity spots or clicks and go out of business. Too bad Bioware is taking the game down with them in the process.

That's why I rather trust the impressions on forums and such, than rely on gaming sites for info (or should I say PR) on games. I am glad that many people on this site see this now.

Modifié par inkjay, 20 avril 2011 - 03:49 .

[Everwarden]

Rockpopple wrote...
... No offense, but I don't think you know the difference between the meanings of "subjective" and "objective".

A product is advertised and sold as having quality x, product fails to have quality x. The product is therefore objectively flawed. If a toaster is advertised as toasting bread (to give a really, really oversimplified example) but doesn't, that toaster has an objective flaw. DA2 was advertised as having (among other things) difficult choices that shape the world. It doesn't. That isn't just my opinion, that's the state of the game. 

[Travie]

Thanks for posting that OP, I'm sure its just another confirmation of what we all already suspected.

94% from PC Gamer? Before that I took their reviews as the gold standard of what I buy and don't buy, so disappointed.

[upsettingshorts]

Before release a game has either set my "interested" or "not interested" flag. The opinions of anonymous forum users or bloggers, or reviewers I often disagree with can only cloud my opinion. By default, all games that set my "interested" flag are worth my money, because so few do to begin with.

In any case, if I listened to reviews - especially the ones after release - I might not have played the game. And I'm glad I did, because I preferred it to Origins.

Fact remains though, this kind of practice - unconfirmed as I'm still treating it - is annoying, sure. It just doesn't really effect me in any way.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 avril 2011 - 03:54 .

[Rockpopple]

Everwarden wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
... No offense, but I don't think you know the difference between the meanings of "subjective" and "objective".

A product is advertised and sold as having quality x, product fails to have quality x. The product is therefore objectively flawed. If a toaster is advertised as toasting bread (to give a really, really oversimplified example) but doesn't, that toaster has an objective flaw. DA2 was advertised as having (among other things) difficult choices that shape the world. It doesn't. That isn't just my opinion, that's the state of the game. 

Actually, it does. That's what I'm saying. Just because you found that your choices didn't shape the game enough for you doesn't mean it didn't shape the world at all for no one else. That is your subjective view of the story and choices of the game.

Understand now? Here, I'll fix it for you.

A product is advertised and sold as having a quality x, product fails to have quality x - to you. The product is therefore subjectively flawed.

[Shadowbanner]

rak72 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...


if you want links to Meristation, the most important Spanish website in the world, please, let me now and I'lll be more than obliged to post them here for everyone to read.

I'm sure others can do likewise for German, French, Dutch and so forth.

I'd like a link, sounds interesting

Sure, here you go:

Meristation

The discussion starts off with a critical article from the gamesite itself. Almost everyone else agrees with it...enjoy.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 20 avril 2011 - 03:57 .

[oldmansavage]

I'm really not surprised in the least this happens in every facet of business.  Does that mean its ok?  Absolutely not its shady as hell but not illegal.

[Cataca]

Persephone wrote...
Hah, I WISH. Such a high profile job is way above my capabilities however. Never mind that Bioware has no office in Austria.

Every critical DAII post? Don't give me too much credit. I've criticized the game myself. I'm simply not fond of hyperbole and I'm sorry...the thread title is so tabloid-sy, it's amusing.

Another austrian, the world is small indeed. 

Hyperbole goes both ways tho, utterly trashing the game and defending it to its death are both but flipsides of the same coin. Sure, the game doesnt deserve a 0 but its far from deserving a 10 either. Totally ignoring everything that is subjective, the game still has glaring bugs and reused maps. That alone is something that is enough to get a game ripped to shreds under normal circumstances. 

I find it somewhat amusing that those that trash the game are accused of beeing subjective, that goes for everyone that gave the game a 10 as well. 

[rak72]

Thanks Shadow!

[Everwarden]

Rockpopple wrote...
Actually, it does. That's what I'm saying. Just because you found that your choices didn't shape the game enough for you doesn't mean it didn't shape the world at all for no one else. That is your subjective view of the story and choices of the game.

No. The epilogue is the EXACT SAME (except for the romance option being mentioned in passing) regardless of choices made. 'Impact on the world' -can- be largely subjective, but in this case it isn't. The game gives the same cutscene to show the same non-impact no matter what the player 'chooses'. 

Though this argument is largely pointless. If it came down to it you'd defend Bioware saying Pong has choice, "Well, you can choose to move up or down. If that isn't enough for your -SUBJECTIVE-, whiny standards, please go away and let me huggle my Mike Laidlaw poster some more."

Modifié par Everwarden, 20 avril 2011 - 04:04 .

[AlexXIV]

Sad thing is that trusting Bioware has always been a save bet. I have never been disappointed with a Bioware game to this day. And even with DA2 I am only partly disappointed. Mostly because after DA:O I expected them to build on it and improve, and not change everything. I think they maybe wanted too much in too little time.

The fact that you can't just bring your game back to the vendor, especially a digital version, makes it look a bit shady that on top of that publishers seem to try to avoid bad criticism at all costs before release. I mean with this kind of ethic I am wondering if I should not just start buying games a year or so after release instead of preordering etc.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 avril 2011 - 04:05 .

[John Epler]

I'm going to strongly, -strongly- recommend that some people cut it out with the personal attacks and ad hominems.

If some of you feel unable or unwilling to debate points rather than personalities, then you will be removed from the forums.

[Rockpopple]

Everwarden wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
Actually, it does. That's what I'm saying. Just because you found that your choices didn't shape the game enough for you doesn't mean it didn't shape the world at all for no one else. That is your subjective view of the story and choices of the game.

No. The epilogue is the EXACT SAME (except for the romance option being mentioned in passing) regardless of choices made. 'Impact on the world' -can- be largely subjective, but in this case it isn't. The game gives the same cutscene to show the same non-impact no matter what the player 'chooses'. 

Though this argument is largely pointless. If it came down to it you'd defend Bioware saying Pong has choice, "Well, you can choose to move up or down. If that isn't enough for your -SUBJECTIVE-, whiny standards, please go away and let me huggle my Mike Laidlaw poster some more."

Hm, classy.

In any case, you're right - this argument is largely pointless. If the lack of epilogue cards is your total account for why you believe the choices in the game didn't matter, then I'd probably have better luck getting through to a poster of Mike Laidlaw. 

Sorry, John. Couldn't resist. I'm finished now, I swear. :innocent:

Modifié par Rockpopple, 20 avril 2011 - 04:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

Everwarden wrote...

Though this argument is largely pointless. If it came down to it you'd defend Bioware saying Pong has choice, "Well, you can choose to move up or down. If that isn't enough for your -SUBJECTIVE-, whiny standards, please go away and let me huggle my Mike Laidlaw poster some more."

Ah yes, the "You have a different perspective than me so therefore you'd say anything to reflect the fact your interpretation is different, go hug your (name) poster" argument. 

[Rockpopple]

I hear it's the best argument on the Citadel. ;D

[Everwarden]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Ah yes, the "You have a different perspective than me so therefore you'd say anything to reflect the fact your interpretation is different, go hug your (name) poster" argument. 

It wasn't an argument, it was snark added to flavor the argument. Though in poor taste, I have to concede. 

[oldmansavage]

AlexXIV wrote...

Sad thing is that trusting Bioware has always been a save bet. I have never been disappointed with a Bioware game to this day. And even with DA2 I am only partly disappointed. Mostly because after DA:O I expected them to build on it and improve, and not change everything. I think they maybe wanted too much in too little time.

The fact that you can't just bring your game back to the vendor, especially a digital version, makes it look a bit shady that on top of that publishers seem to try to avoid bad criticism at all costs before release. I mean with this kind of ethic I am wondering if I should not just start buying games a year or so after release instead of preordering etc.

This is how I was.  I suppose it is stupid just to buy a game because of the Bioware brand but they never steered me wrong.  I'll simply chock the experience up to a lesson learned. 

[Virginian]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Pretty much confirms what most people already know/suspect.

It's common sense from the business perspective.

[Everwarden]

Rockpopple wrote...

In any case, you're right - this argument is largely pointless. If the lack of epilogue cards is your total account for why you believe the choices in the game didn't matter, then I'd probably have better luck getting through to a poster of Mike Laidlaw. 

Sorry, sorry. I let my anger at Dragon Age II (which I loathe) seep into my argument with you, and I do apologize. That wasn't cool of me.

[Maverick827]

Everwarden wrote...

Sorry, sorry. I let my anger at Dragon Age II (which I loathe) seep into my argument with you, and I do apologize. That wasn't cool of me.

It's also not very cool to "loathe" a video game.

[Shadowbanner]

rak72 wrote...

Thanks Shadow!

Anytime.

[Everwarden]

Maverick827 wrote...
It's also not very cool to "loathe" a video game.

Why not? I loved the first one, I hate the second one. Lots of people hate various forms of media, not just video games. Just look at how people reacted to Star Wars Episode I.

Honestly, being angry at an inferior product is pretty common. Not sure what point you're trying to make. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 20 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[Apollo Starflare]

I see we the games industry is finally taking the next step up, we have tabloid quality articles pretending to be quality journalism now. Seriously, there is nothing new in the OP just the same speculation there has always been. Publishers are likely to choose to give advance review copies to bigger publications/sites that have been covering their upcoming title in a positive light upto that point? Shocker. It boggles my mind that some people around here find it so hard that the PCG reviewer just liked the game, both in the lead up and after playing it through.

Does 'buttering up' for good reviews happen? I have no idea, the cynical side of me suspects so, but this adds no new evidence to the argument. To be honest if anything it comes across as this editor having a bit of a whine because he feels the current situation is unfair.

[v_ware]

Everwarden wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...
It's also not very cool to "loathe" a video game.

Why not? I loved the first one, I hate the second one. Lots of people hate various forms of media, not just video games. Just look at how people reacted to Star Wars Episode I.

Let's not forget Star Wars: The Clone Wars Movie.

*instant brain hemorrage*

[v_ware]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
I see we the games industry is finally taking the next step up, we have tabloid quality articles pretending to be quality journalism now. Seriously, there is nothing new in the OP just the same speculation there has always been. Publishers are likely to choose to give advance review copies to bigger publications/sites that have been covering their upcoming title in a positive light upto that point? Shocker. It boggles my mind that some people around here find it so hard that the PCG reviewer just liked the game, both in the lead up and after playing it through.  

It's written by the chief editor of a major gaming magazine. Guess what. If anybody, he will have inside info in how publishers treat the press.