228 réponses à ce sujet

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Maverick827 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Sorry, sorry. I let my anger at Dragon Age II (which I loathe) seep into my argument with you, and I do apologize. That wasn't cool of me.

It's also not very cool to "loathe" a video game.

No no it's not cool to think video games are cool in the first place:lol:

[Rockpopple]

Everwarden wrote...

Sorry, sorry. I let my anger at Dragon Age II (which I loathe) seep into my argument with you, and I do apologize. That wasn't cool of me.

No worries! Imaginary beers later. Even if you don't drink - like me - they're imaginary, so it's cool. 

Modifié par Rockpopple, 20 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[FedericoV]

If Bioware have bought reviews they have done a poor job since it's their lowest rated game in many years. And I don't get the logic difference between early/not early review.

Anyway: I rarely buy games because of their review. Preview are mostly misleading and biased (being positive or not). I buy games that interests me and that's really subjective and even irrational. I discovered the existence of the Total War franchise only because I'm a great fan of ancient rome history for example. But now I play each game of their catalogue and buy them no matter what since I like their approach to RTS.

Review are only usefull AFTER I've played a game so I can check my opinions with some professional critic and try to understand things I've not observed as a player. I even suppose that they do not count too much in terms of marketing. Company fame and word of mouth are more important.

Honestly, I've bought only a game because ot its reviews (Uncharted 2) and I mostly regret the choice since it's one of the shallowest game I've ever played.

Modifié par FedericoV, 20 avril 2011 - 04:34 .

[v_ware]

FedericoV wrote...
If Bioware have bought reviews they have done a poor job since it's their lowest rated game in many years. And I don't get the logic difference between early/not early review.

The strategy behind this is pretty clear. Preorder and week-1-sales revenue makes up a large chunk of the total sales of a game. By preventing negative or lukewarm reviews from being published before or at the time of release a big part of the sales is secured.

[cljqnsnyc]

I don't not understand the "bury your head in the sand" attitude of some people where this game is concerned. Whatever your opinion may be, some things are painfully obvious and simply cannot be ignored or explained away, even if you don't want to believe the fact that they exist.

For example.....I may not enjoy some of the hip hop music that's all over the airwaves today but that doesn't mean I'm unaware of it's impact on our culture and society as a whole, or the fact that it has dominated the sales charts for a very long time, whether I like it or not.

If you enjoy DA2, that's fine and I'm happy for you. But to attempt to ignore all of the polarization and controversy this game has caused simply because you disagree with people who dislike DA2 is a basic example of denial. It never made anyone wonder how a game that was described by certain magazines as being "Perfect!" "RPG of the decade!" "9/10" "10/10" "Darker, Sexier!" etc, etc........then have a MULTITUDE of actual consumers, not paid to give an opinion, with the direct opposite views? Sure everyone isn't going to agree, but when you see a trend, a pattern such as this one...it's an indication that something is definitely wrong. That's just common sense.

Ask yourself, if all of this wasn't true or very likely true, why is THIS happening?

You don't have to take anyone's word for it to see the multitude of negative opinions about this game that are literally everywhere, even on Bioware's very own site. A company such as EA would NEVER offer a game like ME2 for free UNLESS there was a very good reason. Is it a simple coincidence that this offer is for PC users, where DA2's sales are the weakest? They make you pay for day 1 dlc that should have been included in the game (The Exiled Prince) but ME2 is free because they love us sooo much?

You will never see a AAA game that's a smash being discounted so heavily across the board so soon after release, unless something has gone wrong,  it's a holiday promotion, or the more obvious reason.......the game isn't selling well. DA2 was meant to be MORE accessible to a larger audience. Had the audience they were hoping to attract bought this game, don't you think we would have seen press releases touting this success?

What more does anyone need?

Again, if you love this game, that's fantastic! My statement isn't an attempt to persuade anyone from continuing to enjoy themselves. However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

And that's a fact, not an opinion whether you choose to agree with it or not.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 20 avril 2011 - 04:45 .

[Miashi]

Rockpopple wrote...
No worries! Imaginary beers later. Even if you don't drink - like me - they're imaginary, so it's cool. 

Imaginary beers just like the ones in the Hanged Man: Hawke can drink as much of them as he wants, but will never get drunk

Modifié par Miashi, 20 avril 2011 - 04:36 .

[Mecher3k]

Persephone wrote...

 Lotsa theories, no hard evidence. Moving on.

Like everything you say, but glad to see you agree on the moving on part.

[Apollo Starflare]

FedericoV wrote...

If Bioware have bought reviews they have done a poor job since it's their lowest rated game in many years. And I don't get the logic difference between early/not early review.

Another good point. Really there doesn't even seem much point to buying positive reviews unless you buy a few. PCG is well regarded sure, but for a multi platform game you might as well spend a lil extra to get 95% reviews for the PS3 and 360 versions as well, no? Why stop at one.

Oh wait, any review over 70% was bought lol. *facepalm*

Neither does it matter whether this guy is the editor in chief or not, if anything that makes his lack of evidence to support his charged 'article' even more amateurish. Those things that are correct (the fact some publishers do tend to mess the gaming press around somewhat) is true enough, but it's also something almost anyone with a cursory knowledge of the industry knows and accepts.

[upsettingshorts]

cljqnsnyc wrote...
However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

Speaking for myself, I don't do this.  My theories as to what exactly has "gone wrong" don't seem to be the popular ones, however.  Granted, I think they're probably the right ones, but then that's because it's my opinion.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 20 avril 2011 - 04:40 .

[v_ware]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
If Bioware have bought reviews they have done a poor job since it's their lowest rated game in many years. And I don't get the logic difference between early/not early review.

Another good point. Really there doesn't even seem much point to buying positive reviews unless you buy a few. PCG is well regarded sure, but for a multi platform game you might as well spend a lil extra to get 95% reviews for the PS3 and 360 versions as well, no? Why stop at one.

Again: The strategy behind this is pretty clear. Preorder and week-1-sales revenue makes up a large chunk of the total sales of a game. By preventing negative or lukewarm reviews from being published before or at the time of release a big part of the sales is secured.

[v_ware]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...
However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

Speaking for myself, I don't do this.  My theories as to what exactly has "gone wrong" don't seem to be the popular ones, however.  Granted, I think they're probably the right ones, but then that's because it's my opinion.

And what might your theory be, siiir? Mine is in my siggyyy.

Modifié par v_ware, 20 avril 2011 - 04:43 .

[Travie]

Miashi wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
No worries! Imaginary beers later. Even if you don't drink - like me - they're imaginary, so it's cool. 

Imaginary beers just like the ones in the Hanged Man: Hawke can drink as much of them as he wants, but will never get drunk

Mmmmm, air beer.

[Miashi]

v_ware wrote...
And what might your theory be, siiir? Mine is in my siggyyy.

My theory is this:

Mike Laidlaw: Give me a year and a half and I'll make you a game that sells 4 million copies!
EA: Ok, here's your money. Have fun.

[Miashi]

Travie wrote...
Mmmmm, air beer.

Also take notice that Hawke uses the very same animation than Shepard in Mass Effect 2 when he drinks.

[upsettingshorts]

v_ware wrote...

And what might your theory be, siiir? Mine is in my siggyyy.

I suppose the best way to describe it would be to have you read this and then this.  It doesn't cover every change between DAO and DA2, but quite a few of the more controversial ones. 

[Apollo Starflare]

v_ware wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
If Bioware have bought reviews they have done a poor job since it's their lowest rated game in many years. And I don't get the logic difference between early/not early review.

Another good point. Really there doesn't even seem much point to buying positive reviews unless you buy a few. PCG is well regarded sure, but for a multi platform game you might as well spend a lil extra to get 95% reviews for the PS3 and 360 versions as well, no? Why stop at one.

Again: The strategy behind this is pretty clear. Preorder and week-1-sales revenue makes up a large chunk of the total sales of a game. By preventing negative or lukewarm reviews from being published before or at the time of release a big part of the sales is secured.

Except, we were getting 'lukewarm' reviews early on as well. My point stands, why spend your money for only one or two OTT reviews.

[cljqnsnyc]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...
However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

Speaking for myself, I don't do this.  My theories as to what exactly has "gone wrong" don't seem to be the popular ones, however.  Granted, I think they're probably the right ones, but then that's because it's my opinion.

Whatever opinion is offered, yours or mine, it still doesn't discount the fact that this game has caused the DA fanbase to fracture, and cause some to no longer blindly trust Bioware to deliever a quality game. My entire point wasn't necessarily about popular opinion, but about what is actually happening.

[OdanUrr]

Fact is that whether you buy a game or a book, it's always a leap of faith. Sure, there may be positive or negative reviews out there, but reviews are still a matter of opinion and don't reflect whether you'll like or dislike the product in question.

Sometimes you buy a product based on the author's (developer's) track record. For instance, you may be a fan of Bioware games, so you expect them to deliver, if not an excellent gaming experience, at least an entertaining one. That may not always work out (e.g. you may be a fan of Karen Traviss and still not like every one of her books), your likes/dislikes evolve over time along with those of your favourite author/developer.

Luck, instinct, research, call it what you will, may put you in touch with a game or book at a particular moment in time that you will enjoy. For instance, I recently bought Chris Evans' "A Darkness Forged in Fire" and I enjoyed it. I'd never heard of the author before but I took a risk and it paid off. This won't, and in fact hasn't, always been the case and we may sometimes try to fool ourselves into believing the product is actually better than it is because we won't admit to ourselves we've just wasted our money.

Reviewers may ultimately have or have not a secret agenda which may potentially influence their opinion of a game/book/etc. We may sometimes place our trust in reviews from other authors we like (e.g. since I'm a fan of Asimov's work, were he to tell me - alas, he can't - that book X is worth reading I'd probably follow his advice in a heartbeat) and find we disagree with them. Does this mean that in that case authors have been coerced to write favourable reviews of an otherwise undeserving book/game? Maybe, maybe not. If some form of coercion is in the cards, then it's certainly a despicable practice. And what if favourable reviews have been conjured up for a book/game that you actually find enjoyable? What then? The practice still remains despicable though you may be far more lenient in this case.

Nonetheless, when all is said and done, whenever you buy a game or a book, it's always a leap of fatih.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 20 avril 2011 - 04:56 .

[Maverick827]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

I won't argue that something has gone wrong as far as a certain subset of the fanbase is concerned, but I would argue this subset is the "general" fanbase you make them out to be.

Miashi wrote...

Mike Laidlaw: Give me a year and a half and I'll make you a game that sells 4 million copies!
EA: Ok, here's your money. Have fun.

Are you being deliberately ignorant?

[Turnip Root]

Seems like most of the reviews were pretty positive if not overwhelmingly so and that not just early reviews. Most of the negative reviews are just metacritic trolls whom I don't take seriously. There are very few outright negative reviews of Dragon Age II from legitimate sources.

[Rockpopple]

@cl... dude with the funky name.

I can't come up with a theory to why the game has gotten the split reception it has. I think it's too complex, and it's something that BioWare is gonna have to pour over in a lot of detail to find out where the 'sweet spot' of dissension is.

Dragon Age II is not a bad game by any standards, but obviously it is not up to the level of expectations of what a lot of folks expected - not all but a lot -  and that could be for any number of reasons.

But I don't know of anyone on these forums who likes the game that doesn't acknowledge that it's flawed, more in some areas than in others. The problem is, not everyone can agree on what those flaws are.

BioWare's got their work cut out for them.

Edit: Maybe DA II has split the fanbase precisely because there was a Dragon Age: Origins to compare it to. If it came out as Dragon Age, the only Dragon Age game, how would people have reacted to it? It is interesting what direct comparisons of a gameplay-by-gameplay aspect of the game can bring out in some people.

Edit #2: Once again, UpsettingShorts has this on lockdown. He's got a very cool theory as to why DA II has caused such a split in the fanbase. At least for some people.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 20 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[cljqnsnyc]

Maverick827 wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

However, it is impossible to debate the fact that SOMETHING has gone terribly wrong with this game as far as the general fanbase is concerned.....or none of THIS would be happening.

I won't argue that something has gone wrong as far as a certain subset of the fanbase is concerned, but I would argue this subset is the "general" fanbase you make them out to be.

Miashi wrote...

Mike Laidlaw: Give me a year and a half and I'll make you a game that sells 4 million copies!
EA: Ok, here's your money. Have fun.

Are you being deliberately ignorant?

Subset? That almost sounds like only a small handful of people are disappointed with this game. I disagree that it's as trivial as you're attempting to make it sound. It takes more than a vocal minority to cause the rapid decline in sales seen across the board with DA2.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 20 avril 2011 - 05:01 .

[Urazz]

Turnip Root wrote...

Seems like most of the reviews were pretty positive if not overwhelmingly so and that not just early reviews. Most of the negative reviews are just metacritic trolls whom I don't take seriously. There are very few outright negative reviews of Dragon Age II from legitimate sources.

Exactly, and then there are the hardcore RPG gamers here who keep on trying to push the game off as a failure as well.

I won't say DA2 is their most successful game but so far it doesn't look like a failure either so far.

Modifié par Urazz, 20 avril 2011 - 05:02 .

[upsettingshorts]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Whatever opinion is offered, yours or mine, it still doesn't discount the fact that this game has caused the DA fanbase to fracture, and cause some to no longer blindly trust Bioware to deliever a quality game. My entire point wasn't necessarily about popular opinion, but about what is actually happening.

Actually, my observation addresses that.  It made games suitable to two playstyles, now it makes games that endorse one of those playstyles, and not the other.  Hence, polarization.

That is the extremely short version, though.

[Miashi]

Maverick827 wrote...
Are you being deliberately ignorant?

Maybe... I'll give you a hint