184 réponses à ce sujet

[jds1bio]

Major spoilers in this article, but you knew that was coming:

www.geekmom.com/2011/04/an-ode-to-alistair-love-lust-and-loss-in-fereldan/

[Amagoi]

Thanks for posting. I found myself agreeing with a lot of what she said, except for the implied comment that a beardless dwarf wouldn't be an interesting romance. Poor Varric..

[LadyJaneGrey]

Thanks for the link.

Favorite quote: "...he had changed his clothes. Now he looked more emo than ever."  Poor Anders.  :innocent:

[Addai]

Yeah. The romances did feel more like ticking a box. That's the problem with the assertion the devs made as of Awakening that the Origins dialogue system was "broken." Some people might have rushed through dialogues or felt they had to click every line even if they didn't really want to talk about the Grey Wardens, but not allowing that flexibility means taking away the feeling that the player is in control of the pacing.

I wish I could say she would have a better experience with one of the other LIs, but even for the ones I like, it's just not as satisfying. I'm asking myself if I actually cared more about the ME2 companions, and that's not something I ever expected.

[sevalaricgirl]

I agree completely with her. The DA team dropped the ball major league in DA2 so much so that I'm hesitant to even buy any other DA games, DLC or expansions. I don't think every character should have been made bi either.

[Rinji the Bearded]

God forbid every eligible male in Thedas doesn't behave like Alistair... *sigh.*

[jds1bio]

RinjiRenee wrote...

God forbid every eligible male in Thedas doesn't behave like Alistair... *sigh.*

Well, at least she admitted ultimately that the Alistair in her mind was better than the Alistar in DA:O.

[yoshibb]

Funny I felt I knew Alistair more in 6 months than I did 7 years with Fenris. I liked the companion quests but I think I like just talking about random things at the campsite more.

[Rinji the Bearded]

jds1bio wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

God forbid every eligible male in Thedas doesn't behave like Alistair... *sigh.*

Well, at least she admitted ultimately that the Alistair in her mind was better than the Alistar in DA:O.

I just really don't agree with her overall.  I thought the love interests in DA2 were fine, despite having a little less interaction.  I miss Alistair, but not because the LIs in DA2 were poor or anything.

[Camenae]

I thought the romances in DA2 were good. I wished for more interaction, but I don't think that made the rest of it bad.

[hoorayforicecream]

Nostalgia goggles are pretty hard to ignore.

[Maria13]

I liked the comment from the lady who admitted that she would set about wooing Alistair while her husband was out of the room...

[Miashi]

Oh my god. I read her article and I totally did the same thing. I rerolled human warrior once I realized that I could not continue my relationship with Alistair. I remember also how I furiously browsed the forums that night and how I had a big knot in my throat the night it happened.

It didn't occur for me in DA:2

[ejoslin]

Miashi wrote...

Oh my god. I read her article and I totally did the same thing. I rerolled human warrior once I realized that I could not continue my relationship with Alistair. I remember also how I furiously browsed the forums that night and how I had a big knot in my throat the night it happened.

It didn't occur for me in DA:2

I have to admit, when Alistair dumped my city elf (unspoiled), I cried.  I was a total witch to my family for the rest of the night, and I literally was heartbroken.  It's kind of interesting, how strongly I reacted.

When Fenris dumped Hawke, I was confused, but no where near heartbroken as I was when it happened with Alistair.  While I love Fenris' romance, it did not draw me in the same way Alistair's and Zevran's did.

[Miashi]

@ejoslin : What really killed me is that I had my PC plugged in to the 52 inch TV to enjoy Alistair in its full immensity. Once I realized I was going to have to start a new game, I headed to bed and my boyfriend asked me: "So how's Dragon Age?"

Me to answer: I ****ING hate that game!
DA:O (more like Alistair) is definitely one of the RPG characters that I was emotionally the most attached to. Up there are Carth, Casavir and Ashley/Kaidan.

Anders was... interesting, but my reaction was more of a "meh" when he betrayed me. I might have had reacted differently if you could've kissed him, or if there had been more party banter teasing from the other companions on the romance.

Modifié par Miashi, 20 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[ejoslin]

Miashi wrote...

@ejoslin : What really killed me is that I had my PC plugged in to the 52 inch TV to enjoy Alistair in its full immensity. Once I realized I was going to have to start a new game, I headed to bed and my boyfriend asked me: "So how's Dragon Age?"

Me to answer: I ****ING hate that game!
DA:O (more like Alistair) is definitely one of the RPG characters that I was emotionally the most attached to. Up there are Carth, Casavir and Ashley/Kaidan.

Anders was... interesting, but my reaction was more of a "meh" when he betrayed me. I might have had reacted differently if you could've kissed him, or if there had been more party banter teasing from the other companions on the romance.

I ended up never being able to romance Alistair again.  I finished that game, and got even more heartbreak at the ending.  Zevran's romance draws me in as much.

I do agree that more banter would have been nice.  Merrill actually has some good ones, but Fenris' and Anders' are sadly lacking.  With Fenris you get that confirmation that no, he really did dump you (joy), and then Merrill teases him a bit about being in love (cringeworthingly inappropriate if it's in act 2) and then when things are settled you get him refusing to talk about it.  That's it.  I loved how in DAO (with the exception of Leliana and a F!Warden) all the party members had something to say about the romances in the banters.

Edit: Adding a kiss/hug option at least while at the home base of the LI would have added a lot.

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 avril 2011 - 05:37 .

[syllogi]

Very interesting article. My personal feelings about the characters in DA2 was that they were wasted on a sub-par game, so I don't fully agree with her...on one hand, she has an excellent point in why the new dialogue system detaches the player from caring about anything that is going on. On the other hand, I did care more about characters like Isabela, Varric, and of course Anders, than you would think I would, for someone who has loudly spoken about how much she dislikes this game.

My problem, however, was that I couldn't help thinking that this story would have been so much better as a novel, one that didn't really need Hawke as a protagonist at all. That's not the feeling I want to have when I finish a role playing game. I liked most of the characters, but I didn't care about Hawke, at all.

[Darth Krytie]

After Alistair dumped my City Elf, I went and sacrificed myself to the Archdemon. *sadness* Then, I did a human noble and married him. Oh, Alistair

But, Anders! I love him even more than Alistair. Love him so much. I romanced him four times. So much love. Forever and ever. He broke my heart, but I can't seem to give him up.

[Maria Caliban]

I found Merrill and Isabela's romances comparable to Leliana's. I even liked the feeling in Isabela's that the character grew and changed over the years, which I didn't notice in DA:O.

[Addai]

TeenZombie wrote...

Very interesting article. My personal feelings about the characters in DA2 was that they were wasted on a sub-par game, so I don't fully agree with her...on one hand, she has an excellent point in why the new dialogue system detaches the player from caring about anything that is going on. On the other hand, I did care more about characters like Isabela, Varric, and of course Anders, than you would think I would, for someone who has loudly spoken about how much she dislikes this game.

My problem, however, was that I couldn't help thinking that this story would have been so much better as a novel, one that didn't really need Hawke as a protagonist at all. That's not the feeling I want to have when I finish a role playing game. I liked most of the characters, but I didn't care about Hawke, at all.

Exactly my feeling.  It would have been better as the DA anime movie.

[hoorayforicecream]

Addai67 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Very interesting article. My personal feelings about the characters in DA2 was that they were wasted on a sub-par game, so I don't fully agree with her...on one hand, she has an excellent point in why the new dialogue system detaches the player from caring about anything that is going on. On the other hand, I did care more about characters like Isabela, Varric, and of course Anders, than you would think I would, for someone who has loudly spoken about how much she dislikes this game.

My problem, however, was that I couldn't help thinking that this story would have been so much better as a novel, one that didn't really need Hawke as a protagonist at all. That's not the feeling I want to have when I finish a role playing game. I liked most of the characters, but I didn't care about Hawke, at all.

Exactly my feeling.  It would have been better as the DA anime movie.

I disagree... while some elements felt like they were out of my control, I would be a lot less happy with no interactivity at all. I quite enjoyed the feeling of helping the companions, and the choices made for those characters I liked (such as Varric, Isabela, Merrill, Aveline, etc.). The main story was a bit rough, but that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[jlb524]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I found Merrill and Isabela's romances comparable to Leliana's. I even liked the feeling in Isabela's that the character grew and changed over the years, which I didn't notice in DA:O.

I agree.

TeenZombie wrote...

My problem, however, was that I couldn't help thinking that this story would have been so much better as a novel, one that didn't really need Hawke as a protagonist at all. That's not the feeling I want to have when I finish a role playing game. I liked most of the characters, but I didn't care about Hawke, at all.

Oddly enough, the character I felt most attached to was Hawke (or, my version of her at least).  Though, I tend to think of my Hawke as another character caught up in the craziness that is Kirkwall just like the others.  Given that, I liked that she was less of the typical heroic character and suffered through her own personal ups and downs.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 avril 2011 - 06:56 .

[ejoslin]

Speaking here as a Zevran fan, so not a Leliana nor an Alistair fangirl, but someone who has done all the romances...

Hmmmm, though I know Leliana had a lot of bugs, including one where her declaration is not triggered, it's hard to believe that the conversations she had when beginning to care (especially if you're fooling around with Morrigan or Zevran), when hitting adore, and falling in love are comparable to the few lines that are basically tacked on to the normal conversations to make them into romance conversations with the LIs in DA2. I'm not even crazy about Leliana's romance, but there just is so much to it, as there are to all the romances in DA really. Leliana probably has fewer than Alistair and Morrigan, but she still has quite a few more than the romances in DA2.

Both Leliana's and Alistair's romances have that awkward, "feeling out" conversation where they're trying to see if it's possible that their feelings are returned. When Alistair gives the rose? Urgh, it's beautiful. Or when he kisses the warden for the first time, there's just so much to those conversations.  There seems to be an actual falling in love, and this is important enough to get their own conversations.

Maybe just people prefer the fewer and shorter conversations. There's nothing wrong with that.  DA2 definitely has the squee moments.  

Edit: I do know there are a few extra conversations if in a romance in DA2, but there are fewer and they are shorter.  I don't know.  I did like the DA2 romances, but it seemed like more should happen in a romance that spans 6 3 years.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 20 avril 2011 - 07:19 .

[OldMan91]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I found Merrill and Isabela's romances comparable to Leliana's. I even liked the feeling in Isabela's that the character grew and changed over the years, which I didn't notice in DA:O.

Probably because in almost a year people don't change that much, at least not without something big happening. Leliana does seem different in Dragon Age 2 so she has changed, but it takes several years for such change to happen.

[BlueMew]

I'd say the writing or romance itself is not at fault here. She seems to have the most issue with the lack of intimacy in DA2. That's a consequence of the gameplay and dialogue system, and not only the love interests suffer because of it. It's the same problems with all of your companions, family members, business contacts and household pets. Less casual banter, less room for surprises and your personal relationships are effectively systemized.

I guess it's the price we pay for having a fully voiced protagonist and a solution to people's complaints of 'the NPCs just keep standing where we left them.' Granted, the latter is not fixed, since they now just keep standing *someplace else*.

So I suppose both systems have their supporters. I'm still somewhat torn, I miss the more 'natural' feeling of interaction with people in Origins (and yes, I miss Alistair too, although Anders and Varric follow closely). Though your hero certainly benefits from it, were the changes worth it... I don't know. I guess it can make you care more for Hawke.