184 réponses à ce sujet

[monima]

Deztyn wrote...

In DA2 most of your companions dialogue is eaten up by their input during quests and their banters--it feels like they know each other and spend more time together than they ever do with Hawke. That's an issue even before you add romance to the mix and when there's already that disconnect, it's harder to get involved with the characters love stories.

Exactly. Hawke is the one left out of it all. Feels like you have no control what so ever. I miss Alistair:( Anders was way to serious and whiny. And no self respecting woman waits for a man for three years, after he walks out on her after sex.

[Phoenix92254]

In DAO I only really cared about 2 of the companions Alistair and Morrigan (they are among my favorite companions in any Bioware game) and I really loved all the DA2 companions but the romances are not as great as Alistair's and Morrigan's.

[Riona45]

I enjoyed romancing Alistair, but I've played through many video game romances (since Baldur's Gate 2, in fact), and I wouldn't say that Alistair was my favorite. It was a sweet romance but it didn't feel as *passionate* as I would have liked--and I'm comparing him with characters who were 2D sprites with only partially voiced dialogue.

To be honest I prefer Fenris--it has awkwardness but also more feels more intense. And yeah, I think overall the DA2 companions are more interesting, even if you can't talk with them as much.  That being said, I do like it that the dialogue in DA2 has more of a sense of pacing.

Modifié par Riona45, 22 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[Foolsfolly]

BlueMew wrote...

I'd say the writing or romance itself is not at fault here. She seems to have the most issue with the lack of intimacy in DA2. That's a consequence of the gameplay and dialogue system, and not only the love interests suffer because of it. It's the same problems with all of your companions, family members, business contacts and household pets. Less casual banter, less room for surprises and your personal relationships are effectively systemized.

I guess it's the price we pay for having a fully voiced protagonist and a solution to people's complaints of 'the NPCs just keep standing where we left them.' Granted, the latter is not fixed, since they now just keep standing *someplace else*.

So I suppose both systems have their supporters. I'm still somewhat torn, I miss the more 'natural' feeling of interaction with people in Origins (and yes, I miss Alistair too, although Anders and Varric follow closely). Though your hero certainly benefits from it, were the changes worth it... I don't know. I guess it can make you care more for Hawke.

That is not a problem of game play or the dialogue system. The problem is that you rarely talk to anyone and when you do about half of the dialogue is setting up their three companion quests. You don't just talk anymore. So it is a problem of the writing.

I don't see how gameplay can do anything to characterizations and dialogue.

[Rifneno]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hrm.  How depressing.  This makes me realize there's not a single female romance option in either series (or BG2 for that matter) that I liked.  <insert "abandoned the straight male demographic" rant here>

Really? I really like Isabela and Merrill a lot for different reasons. I think the female options in this game were better than the male options by quite a bit.

Oh I didn't mean to imply the male options are any better.  Pretty much all of them are bad.  I can only stomach Anders because I'm pretty much with Justice on the whole "let's go templar huntin'!" thing.  Isabela's just not my cup of tea, mostly because she's anyone's cup of tea.  Merrill takes the whole "innocent and naive" thing too far.  It's endearing in moderation, but with Merrill you just feel like you're a pedo getting at a 10 year old in a 25 year old body.

DAO's options weren't much better.  Alistair was great, just not crazy on the options for how it works out if you're not a Cousland.  Either being an affair or not giving him the throne?  Bleh.  Actually, it's not that I mind not giving him the throne, it's that I mind giving it to Udina's inspiration, Anora.  Leliana was good, if you can get past the whole "thinks God is talking to her through plants" thing.  Buuut, now we're apparently led to believe that she was just a spy and was playing the Warden all along.  Greeeeat.  Zevran was better than I expected.  I was shocked when he spilled his guts about Rinna and the fact he took the job of hunting the Warden with the intention of not surviving because of it.  Morrigan... no.  Just no.

Riona45 wrote...

I enjoyed romancing Alistair, but I've played through many video game romances (since Baldur's Gate 2, in fact), and I wouldn't say that Alistair was my favorite.

Ugh.  BG2.  I feel so bad for the ladies in that one.  Anomen is the worst thing since the bubonic plague.

[Riona45]

Rifneno wrote...
Ugh.  BG2.  I feel so bad for the ladies in that one.  Anomen is the worst thing since the bubonic plague.

He has his fans, but it's beside the point.

If Alistair was the first video game romance I had ever played, I might have been blown away like some people say they were.  However, it wasn't (not even close), and I think it could have used more spice.

[BlueMew]

Foolsfolly wrote...

BlueMew wrote...

I'd say the writing or romance itself is not at fault here. She seems to have the most issue with the lack of intimacy in DA2. That's a consequence of the gameplay and dialogue system, and not only the love interests suffer because of it. It's the same problems with all of your companions, family members, business contacts and household pets. Less casual banter, less room for surprises and your personal relationships are effectively systemized.

I guess it's the price we pay for having a fully voiced protagonist and a solution to people's complaints of 'the NPCs just keep standing where we left them.' Granted, the latter is not fixed, since they now just keep standing *someplace else*.

So I suppose both systems have their supporters. I'm still somewhat torn, I miss the more 'natural' feeling of interaction with people in Origins (and yes, I miss Alistair too, although Anders and Varric follow closely). Though your hero certainly benefits from it, were the changes worth it... I don't know. I guess it can make you care more for Hawke.

That is not a problem of game play or the dialogue system. The problem is that you rarely talk to anyone and when you do about half of the dialogue is setting up their three companion quests. You don't just talk anymore. So it is a problem of the writing.

I don't see how gameplay can do anything to characterizations and dialogue.

Well, the fact that the possibility to chat isn't there, system-wise, I categorize under gameplay / dialogue system. I don't mean the dialogue wheel, specifically. Just the fact that you cannot do it anymore. And yes, that is a result of the full voicing, because otherwise you would have had too many lines and options.

[Rifneno]

Riona45 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
Ugh.  BG2.  I feel so bad for the ladies in that one.  Anomen is the worst thing since the bubonic plague.

He has his fans, but it's beside the point.

If Alistair was the first video game romance I had ever played, I might have been blown away like some people say they were.  However, it wasn't (not even close), and I think it could have used more spice.

What?  Really?  Anomen has fans?!  ...  Anyway don't you think it's a little over the top to say the only reason people prefer Alistair's is because they don't have your extensive experience?  It's a matter of opinion.  Sometimes an unbelievable opinion, like finding out that someone, somewhere, even one person, didn't dream about stabbing Anomen in the eye with a screwdriver.  ...  but I digress.  It's just a matter of preference, they may have played whatever your favorites are and though "meh" as well.  Alistair was very well done.

....  I'm sorry, I still can't get over anyone not hating Anomen.  I--what?  He's a preachy self-superior racist.  ...  <touches nostril>  ...  is that blood?

[Mallika Surana]

I agree a lot with this article about the romances. I didn't feel nearly as attached as my (canon) playthrough with my elven mage who was dumped by Alistair. She refused to be his mistress and the first thing I said to my boyfriend afterwards was "I hate Alistair, he's a big jerk!" :'(

While Anders did betray Hawke and it annoyed me, I didn't feel like *I* was Hawke. I really dislike the voiced protagonist. Personally I would have been more happy without it, I think being able to "camp style chat" with my companions was much better than what they did this go around. I wish they would scrap the VA for the protagonist, but I have a feeling that won't be the case. :\\

[BlueMew]

Rifneno wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
Ugh.  BG2.  I feel so bad for the ladies in that one.  Anomen is the worst thing since the bubonic plague.

He has his fans, but it's beside the point.

If Alistair was the first video game romance I had ever played, I might have been blown away like some people say they were.  However, it wasn't (not even close), and I think it could have used more spice.

What?  Really?  Anomen has fans?!  ...  Anyway don't you think it's a little over the top to say the only reason people prefer Alistair's is because they don't have your extensive experience?  It's a matter of opinion.  Sometimes an unbelievable opinion, like finding out that someone, somewhere, even one person, didn't dream about stabbing Anomen in the eye with a screwdriver.  ...  but I digress.  It's just a matter of preference, they may have played whatever your favorites are and though "meh" as well.  Alistair was very well done.

....  I'm sorry, I still can't get over anyone not hating Anomen.  I--what?  He's a preachy self-superior racist.  ...  <touches nostril>  ...  is that blood?

Hehehe, that sounds familiar. Him being the only option for female leads,  I loved BG to bits, but Anomen? Alistair has lifted that curse pretty much (btw, I DO prefer the non-king, non Cousland one), but oh gods, I haven't quite forgotten. It all came back too when I saw Sebastian. *sniff* The first sensible thing I did after I finished drooling over DA2 was not download him.

I loved both Anders and Alistair, and thankfully, they're both a far, far cry from that windbag Anomen.

[Wulfram]

The good thing about Anomen was that if you always did the opposite of what he suggested, you'd never go wrong.

[22nd MadJack]

Celestina wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

I don't think Anders can ever compare to God's most unwitting gift to women.

You're either a fangirl in disguise, or a very clever man.

I have a lesbian aquaintance that was quite heartbroken she could not gay him up for her male warden.

[tmp7704]

Zjarcal wrote...

Speaking as a Leliana fangirl... I found Merrill and Isabela's romances (I didn't finish Isablea's romance but I have seen how it plays out) to be on par with it. I disagree about the romantic lines being tacked on in conversations in the DA2 romances.

I found both Merrill's and Isabela's romance play out identical in my game...

* in act 1, i made a random compliment or two marked with a heart upon meeting them, pretty much because why not
* in act 2 "three years later", they show up on my doorstep out of sudden, all ready to jump in my bed

it made some sense with Isabela --although it would make much more sense for her to initiate it as early as Act 1 i feel-- but with Merrill that's like "lolwut" (or alternatively, really sad depending how you want to view it) And neither felt really anywhere near as organic as how the DAO relationships tended to develop, with their multiple early stages which were given dedicated spotlight.

They felt more like ME2 romances tend to feel to me -- all built with the same template, no matter the personality of the character involved. And because of it, very "mechanic". You can see exactly  the wizard behind the curtain and the best you can do is pray he doesn't take pictures while your Hawke is having pixel sex.

[Riona45]

Rifneno wrote...
Anyway don't you think it's a little over the top to say the only reason people prefer Alistair's is because they don't have your extensive experience?  

I never said that.  I was only talking about myself.

Geez, people in here are so touchy.

PS:  And you know, when I brought up the older romances, I wasn't just talking about Anomen--I played other BG2 romances, and does anyone remember Valen from Hordes of the Underdark? Going off on a tangent about a character you didn't like (you were actually the one who brought him up, not me) and claiming I said something I didn't isn't exactly making you look reasonable.

Modifié par Riona45, 22 avril 2011 - 08:11 .

[Nyreen]

Riona45 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
Anyway don't you think it's a little over the top to say the only reason people prefer Alistair's is because they don't have your extensive experience?  

I never said that.  I was only talking about myself.

Geez, people in here are so touchy.

You can say that again.

There should be a public service announcement that attacks on someone's personal life aren't justified by his or her hobbies. Just because they have a mild obsession with a character doesn't mean they have never had a real life experiences with romance.

And to be clear, that was not directed at anyone in particular. 
 

[Nyreen]

22nd MadJack wrote...

Celestina wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

I don't think Anders can ever compare to God's most unwitting gift to women.

You're either a fangirl in disguise, or a very clever man.

I have a lesbian aquaintance that was quite heartbroken she could not gay him up for her male warden.

Aw, that stinks. Despite all its flaws, I was very proud of the fact that DA2 made its romances gay-friendly. Like the article said, very forward-thinking, especially in comparison to other games.

[Riona45]

Celestina wrote...
Despite all its flaws, I was very proud of the fact that DA2 made its romances gay-friendly. Like the article said, very forward-thinking, especially in comparison to other games.

I agree, that was a good move.

[Rifneno]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Wow, and I thought I was picky. I get it though.

I'm not that picky, the choices are just meh.    Maybe if Bethany wasn't Hawke's sister...  she has a great personality and the perfect amount of issues.  It's not the subject of every conversation like, say, Anders.  "Mmm, this coffee is terrible."  "I bet some templar poured the blood of mage children into it."  "Err, what?"  But when people are completely over their past... well, look at Kaiden.  Boring as unbuttered toast.  I'm getting tired just thinking about talking to him.

Wulfram wrote...

The good thing about Anomen was that if you always did the opposite of what he suggested, you'd never go wrong.

An excellent strategy!  I applaud you, good sir!

On the "opposites" note, he also had the worst companion quest ever.  Who thought it was a good idea to give the player a choice and have that choice be wrong no matter what?  "Let him go, we have no hard proof."  "Well you do now.  He was the murderer.  Now he's gone free.  ******."  *Word Power: Reload*  "Off with his head!"  "You just killed an innocent man!  You're a monster!"  WHAT?  WHAT?!

tmp7704 wrote...

You can see exactly  the wizard behind the curtain and the best you can do is pray he doesn't take pictures while your Hawke is having pixel sex.

Epic analogy.

If you're FemHawke with Merrill or Isabela, Gamlen might buy those pictures.  When he mentions being curious what they actually do, I didn't know whether to laugh or just go, "Aww, that poor man doesn't have internet..."

Riona45 wrote...

I never said that.  I was only talking about myself.

Geez, people in here are so touchy.

PS:  And you know, when I brought up the older romances, I wasn't just talking about Anomen--I played other BG2 romances, and does anyone remember Valen from Hordes of the Underdark? Going off on a tangent about a character you didn't like (you were actually the one who brought him up, not me) and claiming I said something I didn't isn't exactly making you look reasonable.

I misunderstood then.  Apologies.  In my defense, I'm fairly certain I had just suffered permanent brain damage from trying to understand Anomen having fans when I said it.

[Riona45]

PurebredCorn wrote...
And maybe you need to learn how to communicate without being offensive.

Still holding a grudge?  I haven't lost sleep over it.

[Nyreen]

Rifneno wrote…

tmp7704 wrote...

You can see exactly  the wizard behind the curtain and the best you can do is pray he doesn't take pictures while your Hawke is having pixel sex.

Epic analogy.

If you're FemHawke with Merrill or Isabela, Gamlen might buy those pictures.  When he mentions being curious what they actually do, I didn't know whether to laugh or just go, "Aww, that poor man doesn't have internet…"

LOL! Now how am I supposed to romance future Bioware characters without having those images stuck in my head?!!! Pixel sex, oh dear...

Modifié par Celestina, 22 avril 2011 - 08:56 .

[22nd MadJack]

Celestina wrote...
Aw, that stinks. Despite all its flaws, I was very proud of the fact that DA2 made its romances gay-friendly. Like the article said, very forward-thinking, especially in comparison to other games.

True, though it couldn't been handled better.  I felt that each character should've had a set sexuality, but also have the option of conversion through dialog and interaction.  Unless of course the character in question is as loose as isabella, whom I'd have reservations leaving alone with my mabari.

[Plaintiff]

22nd MadJack wrote...

Celestina wrote...
Aw, that stinks. Despite all its flaws, I was very proud of the fact that DA2 made its romances gay-friendly. Like the article said, very forward-thinking, especially in comparison to other games.

True, though it couldn't been handled better.  I felt that each character should've had a set sexuality, but also have the option of conversion through dialog and interaction.  Unless of course the character in question is as loose as isabella, whom I'd have reservations leaving alone with my mabari.

I think that has the potential to be extremely offensive, depending on how that would manifest in-game. Would a character announce it verbally? "Oh Hawke, you've turned me straight!"

Sexuality is a pretty touchy subject and I can see a lot of people getting pissed at the idea that it's just something you can change or "fix" by flirting enough. I think it's a lot safer (and easier in terms of development) to just make all romances available to both genders from the outset.