813 réponses à ce sujet

[jaikss]

Id rather they take what worked from both games than divide them into "origins style" and  "da2 style" .

[Volourn]

"Here is something for you to comprehend......

Some of us are completists. We do every quest. Its that so hard for you to grasp?"

I am the very defintion of c'ompletionist'. I completed basically every quest in DA1 except the evil only ones. Same with DA2.

then again, I've seen peopel claim 300+ hours for BG2 which is also bullocks. People have also claimed 80+ hours for DA2. *shrug*

It just goes to show length estimiations are pretty much useless can cna't be trusted. Same with replays since there are liekly people who quit DA1 or DA2 early on yet there ar epeople who played either oen or both upwards fo 10 times.

That kind of thing is menaingless because it's just opinion and can't really be argued against.

[AlexXIV]

KalDurenik wrote...

Origins had a few problems: Way to linear (should be abit more open), the combat was slow (some times you had to wait up to 5sec for attack to happen in melee), animations was waaaay to slow.

However it was still a good game. What they should do is expand the Origins system and make the combat abit faster (not anime fast like DA2), more tactical (more abilties, ways to counter stuff, no teleportation when you talk (god its annoying), the ability to talk to companions and customize that with anything anywhere ands on... And ofc the obivous things like make a GOOD game...

Well Origins wasn't really the greatest game ever. That's true. There are alot of things to complain about as well. But it is still one class above DA2. And that's because it shouldn't have been too hard to outclass DA:O with a sequel if you put the same effort into it. Or almost the same at least.

[Curlain]

RedundantCookie wrote...



The investment of time and development on such a variety of colorful and plot significant backgrounds and how that background will affect the way your multiple companions or NPCs react to you is what probably deters Bioware from going back to that direction. Unfortunately they now face release datelines, budget cuts, and more pragmatic game development formulas. 

Dragon Age Origins took more than twice as much time to develop, and was crafted almost as an artistic and literature work of art. From what I have read and seen (I did play some of DA2), Dragon Age 2 played like a 'decent' action roleplaying game like the many there are out there. It meets a deadline and sells to the crowd. 

I dare to make the conjecture that those who favor Dragon Age 2 were swoon by the more animated, faster combat and other elements of the contemporary dime-a-dozen RPGs out there.

I plead to E.A. to give these good people (The dev team in Bioware) more funds and time to develop a masterpiece that improves on the already masterpiece that DA:O Was. You will get your money back and more if it becomes the cult classic DA:O was.

Yeah I fear that you are right, it's just not likely BioWare will be able to to do that kind of investment once again.  We can only hope they are given a slightly longer development time next time around

[KalDurenik]

Volourn wrote...

"Here is something for you to comprehend......

Some of us are completists. We do every quest. Its that so hard for you to grasp?"

I am the very defintion of c'ompletionist'. I completed basically every quest in DA1 except the evil only ones. Same with DA2.

then again, I've seen peopel claim 300+ hours for BG2 which is also bullocks. People have also claimed 80+ hours for DA2. *shrug*

It just goes to show length estimiations are pretty much useless can cna't be trusted. Same with replays since there are liekly people who quit DA1 or DA2 early on yet there ar epeople who played either oen or both upwards fo 10 times.

That kind of thing is menaingless because it's just opinion and can't really be argued against.

Tbh the only thing i know for sure is that when a dev / publisher come out and say a length on a game you can remove 30 to 70% of said time. Atleast in my case.

And no i have no idea how people got 100+ hours from DAO i dont think i could get that unless i left the game on over a few nights. But thats just me i do see myself as someone that play abit faster then the average player so.

[Devn LeComte]

AlexXIV wrote...

Devn LeComte wrote...

The game itself however, is a work of art when it comes to storytelling and originality.

Which? DA2? I saw a nice try, but there was just too much screwing up to keep me immersed at any time. I really had alot of silly things in DA2 to keep myself playing.

Nononono, DA:O is a piece of art, and I am not saying that to flatter anyone, sure, I like DA2, it is fun, but DA:O is immersive and tells a unique story, it's like reading a book, but fun. Yes, I have played through DA:O at least 3 times, so I know what I am talking about.

[Volourn]

"unique story"

*facepalm*

[AlexXIV]

Volourn wrote...

"Here is something for you to comprehend......

Some of us are completists. We do every quest. Its that so hard for you to grasp?"

I am the very defintion of c'ompletionist'. I completed basically every quest in DA1 except the evil only ones. Same with DA2.

then again, I've seen peopel claim 300+ hours for BG2 which is also bullocks. People have also claimed 80+ hours for DA2. *shrug*

It just goes to show length estimiations are pretty much useless can cna't be trusted. Same with replays since there are liekly people who quit DA1 or DA2 early on yet there ar epeople who played either oen or both upwards fo 10 times.

That kind of thing is menaingless because it's just opinion and can't really be argued against.

But you started with  the numbers. I merely said DA:O is longer and has more replayvalue. For me of course, because I can't talk for anyone else. I could say that DA2 had 7GB on my HD and DA:O had 20 GB. Yeah I heard the stories about 'a new compression system' Bioware used. But after playing the game I doubt that compression is the reason for the smaller size.

[KalDurenik]

AlexXIV wrote...

KalDurenik wrote...

Origins had a few problems: Way to linear (should be abit more open), the combat was slow (some times you had to wait up to 5sec for attack to happen in melee), animations was waaaay to slow.

However it was still a good game. What they should do is expand the Origins system and make the combat abit faster (not anime fast like DA2), more tactical (more abilties, ways to counter stuff, no teleportation when you talk (god its annoying), the ability to talk to companions and customize that with anything anywhere ands on... And ofc the obivous things like make a GOOD game...

Well Origins wasn't really the greatest game ever. That's true. There are alot of things to complain about as well. But it is still one class above DA2. And that's because it shouldn't have been too hard to outclass DA:O with a sequel if you put the same effort into it. Or almost the same at least.

Indeed there is ALOT of flaws... hell i could probably write a book about the flaws of DAO .

But still DA2 is bad... It tries to be a adventure / action hybrid game with rpg elements and fail on all parts of it. And its rushed, unpolished (all the bugs that should have been fixed that are OBVIOUS), plot holes, lore holes, less abilities creating less tactics and unique ways to build your character. Anyway it would be better if they took a good long look at what made DAO / BG good and build and improve upon that.

Right now im on the fence if i want to get ME3 or not. Yes ME was not much of a RPG in the first place... But after seeing how rushed DA2 is... And looking at the dev time for ME3... Well i will just say that i dont have alot of faith in Bioware it get even worse after them basicly calling their player base idiots and that we cant understand how epic DA2 is -.-

[Devn LeComte]

Why does the time matter? Origins is obviously longer because it had a much longer Dev. Time.

[Zjarcal]

rak72 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

"Which resulted in a shorter game and less replay value."

DA1 = 59 hours

DA2 = 56 hours

Replay value = equal

DA1= 114
     Lost track of number of playthroughs

DA2 = 28 (I finished everything that I can see)
    In the middle of act 1 on 2 more games, but I have no desire to continue

So, yea - replayability

Oh please. Game length is a variable that depends on many, many things. I spent well over 30 hours on act 1 alone (and between 60-70 hours with the whole game) so it goes without saying that your mileage will vary.

Which reminds me, what does game length have to do with replayability? A long game does not equal a replayable one, nor does a short one equal a not replayable one.

For the record, I think both Origins and DA2 are highly replayable.

[AlexXIV]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Curlain wrote...

Yeah I fear that you are right, it's just not likely BioWare will be able to to do that kind of investment once again.  We can only hope they are given a slightly longer development time next time around

I don't think time was the problem. Had they just improved on DA:O and not re-developed almost everything from scratch, they would have had a lot more time for the things that really mattered. And I really do not think they will can the IP just because the sequel failed to sell - not with so many preorders riding on the back of DA:O.

DA2 had more preorders than DA:O. But not because of DA2. The reason were people who played and liked DA:O. Now how many preorders will DA3 get after DA2? I would guess less.

[Sammyjb]

Will BioWare go back to Origins style: No. They'll hybrid DA 2 and DAO, because no one would say that DA 2 was a complete failure and just go back to Origins again.


Would I like another Origins? Yes.

[Volourn]

"But you started with the numbers. I merely said DA:O is longer "

IYeah, I used actual numbers but it wa sjust to illustatre how silly it is to rate games based on length (or replayability) since they're not tangental cause you really can't agrue them. When I call people 'liars' for stating they played DA1 for 80 our 114 hours its tongue in cheek, because everyone plays different so it just means nothing.

It's not like graphics, gameplay, story, or characters. Those may be opinion based largely too but at leasty they can be 'argued'.

Some takes 59 hours to finish DA1 is not arguable. Some one takes 114 hours to finish DA1. Not arguable. Someone oen takes 30 hours to complete DA1. Not arguable.

[Devn LeComte]

DA2 IS GOOD! Tell me why you don't like it alex.

[SkyWard20]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

This game is not as well rated as the previous game, I think we can all conclude that. Am I the only one afraid that the nostalgia backlash this game received will make BioWare games become less actiony in the future? I immensely enjoyed DA2 and I'd go as far as to classify it as one of my top 5 games (Origins didn't make it, a bit too boring and slow). I really enjoy how actiony yet tactical the combat was, how deep the characters were (being able to talk to your family really made those characters awesome)

I am afraid the reviews will make DA3 have combat like DA:O which I found boring and unreallistically slow, and return to unvoiced and list dialogue, instead of wheeled and voiced. Anyone else feels like this?

EDITED to remove spoilers.

The game needs a balance to appeal to  ALL FAN BASES.

The combat can be slowed as well.  It went too fast in some cases and yes, it was too slow in Origins.

It needs a BALANCE...a MIDDLE GROUND!! 

Not to me. It was much better than Origins, it need even more of what made it what it is, not a middle ground, it needs to go even more in the direction DA2 went.

Trolololo 

[LeBurns]

Nightnight wrote...

I want DA:O2 Please.

This.

Going from BG to BG2 only minor tweeks where made and BOTH games were a big success.  If BioWare had only made a few tweeks going from DAO to DAO2 I'm sure the same would have happened.  BW did not have to change everything in a game that was ready proven a huge success, they chose to.

With the limited time they had to make DA2 if they had taken that time and instead of changing everything, made a great story and only tweeked the combat and art style of DAO they would have had more than enough time to make another great deep epic game.

[AppleSoda]

Devn LeComte wrote...

DA2 IS GOOD! Tell me why you don't like it alex.

Read my last post...

[AlexXIV]

Sammyjb wrote...

Will BioWare go back to Origins style: No. They'll hybrid DA 2 and DAO, because no one would say that DA 2 was a complete failure and just go back to Origins again.


Would I like another Origins? Yes.

Well I agree. DA2 isn't a complete fail. it is still a good game. Or ok game or something. And they shouldn't scrap all the things they improved in DA2. Thing is they should have built on DA:O and not changed so much. Just a bit in every new game. All the changes costed time and money and you notice that the game would have needed 1 more year or something. If they really knew from start they had only 2 years they shouldn't have changed so much.

[Devn LeComte]

Balance is needed, I do agree with you, but the game started as something, people got attached to it, and you can't argue with some people. FANBASE, remember, they do this for money too.

[Volourn]

DA2 did no such thing. BIO's name did so. BIO has been selling agmes for 10+ years.

I bet DA1 cost a lot fo sales for DA2 since a lot of people who play DA1 loathed it or didn't even bother finishing it so they probably passed on DA2 because of DA1.

DA1 probably cost DA2 hundreds of thousnads if not millions of sales.

See hwo spin can work, guys?

R00fles!

[Devn LeComte]

RedundantCookie wrote...

Devn LeComte wrote...

DA2 IS GOOD! Tell me why you don't like it alex.

Read my last post...

I heard what you thought, I want to know what alex thinks. Story aside and all, would you rather have a boring game, or a fun game? All story, no game=Not fun. Fast paced, action packed=fun. Not saying that either DA1 or 2 executed this well, DA2 has a better grasp on battle and the polish of the game, DA1 has a much better story and is executed very well. DA2 on the other hand, executes it not as well, at all. So I am conflicted between the two, I played DA2 too much I guess, I grew attached to it.

[AlexXIV]

Devn LeComte wrote...

DA2 IS GOOD! Tell me why you don't like it alex.

Alot of reasons you could find the story/spoiler forum. Basically the story stops making sense every now and then. Well I can just ignore it and keep playing. But I would have liked more thought to it so it doesn't feel so half-arsed.

I don't mind the combat, not imporant to me. Liked the characters and companion quests, the dialogue wheel, etc. There are really alot of things that I like. But what really disturbs me is that I feel that the writers didn't put as much thought in the story as in DA:O. Also, choices. If I get 3 dialogue options, or any options actually, and they all lead to the same result, then I don't call it an option. I call it fake. I don't need a game to give me random links to click for no particular reason. I can do that in the internet, without a game.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 avril 2011 - 08:42 .