813 réponses à ce sujet

[Shasow]

1000questions wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. There were so many different changes and so many different opinions on most of them that they are going to have a difficult job reaching a conclusion. I'm worried they will throw away things I liked and keep things I didn't like.

And exactly what things are you talking about in DA2 ?

Everything in DA2 sucked except combat, interface, skills, graphics, and companion armor.

[ItsToofy]

Volourn wrote...

"unique story"

*facepalm*

Im assuming you are saying that DA 2 ghad a more unique story, but i can name a couple of stories that reminds me of DA 2, most notably Beastmaster and Conan the Barbarian, facepalm DA 2 doing what most modern games do this generation, borrow from other stories.

Why is it that it that if a game is a couple years old its all of a sudden old news and the style outdated? we are currently in a generation spoiled by everything having to be bigger and better than the thing before it, we dont have the chance to really enjoy anything before it becomes obsolete. DA:O is by far not outdated and should not be discarded for some new "status quo" in gaming, most notably the mass effectizing of all our games. Simpler or streamlining isnt always the answer, faster isnt always better, evolving gaming is important but if developers try to change too much too quickly to keep things fresh, everybody loses and games will contain a fraction of the content they used to because everyone was worried about how to reach a broader audience and making it easier to pick up and making it the shiniest new thing instead of trying to deliver the amount of content we'd actually like to see in our games, technological and visual "innovation" means nothing if the delivery is bad.

Developers have devolved themselves into trying to please everyone all of the time, this will inevitably lead them all to failure and the industry will be moving too fast in the wrong direction and only end up shooting themselves in the foot when video games become stale for the sheer fact that many games will just be mirror images mechanically, for instance DA 2 and ME 2

[Shasow]

DA2 had a unique story...












Origins had 50 unique stories.

[aftohsix]

ItsToofy wrote...

... the industry will be moving too fast in the wrong direction and only end up shooting themselves in the foot when video games become stale for the sheer fact that many games will just be mirror images mechanically, for instance DA 2 and ME 2

ME2 and DA2 are not mirror images.  Play through both of them back to back again and see.  They share similar game design features but this is the case in all games across the industry.  For example Halo added regenerating health to the FPS and soon nearly all FPS followed this example.

[ItsToofy]

Hence why i said mechanically

[Swoo]

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. .

The market will make up Bioware's mind for them, in my opinion. Far superior Action-RPG's are coming out this year, and they are most likely going to sell very, very well. It will be easy for them to point at something like Skyrim and say 'This! This will get us our Call of Duty crowd!' and move more into that direction.

I would love to see a return back to Origins though.

[Wholetyouinhere]

"The game needs a balance to appeal to  ALL FAN BASES."

WHY?

If Bioware is in the "pleasing everyone" business, I'm done with them. That's not how you create interesting, compelling media.

Someone else said it, but I'll reiterate: a lot of people were happy with the way DA:O played. If they want to expand and improve on that, no one should complain. But if they want to pull an "about, face" and turn it into another action game (in an industry already well saturated with action games), they deserve flak.

Making something just like everything else isn't progress.

Modifié par Wholetyouinhere, 20 avril 2011 - 09:26 .

[ItsToofy]

What im trying to say is, Bioware tried to make their game replicate their previous game because it worked once, and then eberyone tries to emulate it to make their product better instead of improving their own formula

[fchopin]

If they don't show the text so i know what my character will say then it will make no difference to me as i don't think i will play any more games where my character becomes a guessing game.

[Corto81]

ManiacalEvil wrote...


Unique and expansive. That reminds me of Kirkwall. And no area in Origins was unique and expensive, at least not in the mind blowing way Kirkwall was.

You are joking. Or insanely biased for some unknown reason.

Kirkwall had nothing over Denerim visaully. Better? Slightly.
But not by a lot.

At no point in DA II did I go "whoa!" and twist the camera to enjoy the scenery, unlike in DA:O (Lost Temple, Haven, etc.).

And again, Kirkwall feels fake. A city designed for your character to quest in.
DA:O world felt " real". Not just quest NPCs and merchants, but people just living their lives.

I know it doesn't feel that important, especially for people who didn't grow up on RPGs, but the "immersivness factor" is HUGE for me in a single-player RPG.

[Malanek]

Swoo wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. .

The market will make up Bioware's mind for them, in my opinion. Far superior Action-RPG's are coming out this year, and they are most likely going to sell very, very well. It will be easy for them to point at something like Skyrim and say 'This! This will get us our Call of Duty crowd!' and move more into that direction.
I would love to see a return back to Origins though.

You honestly believe they are going to move in the direction of the elder scrolls? I certainly hope not. I tried Morrowind on someones advice and I hated it. Too unfocused, story was rubbish and the hideously unbalanced scaleable combat system was terrible. Then the same person said Oblivion had fixed all the things I hated about it so I bought that and found exactly the same problems.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Aaleel wrote...

All they had to do was speed up the Origins combat some, and make a closing skill to remove the shuffling, which was really my only real problem with the combat in Origins,

This ^^ as it is now, without the tactical camera and the speed, even with PnP it's tough to play tactically imo. Partly due to spawns.

[Mr.House]

I hope Bioware goes back to the style of DAO but also brings things from DA2(the Talent tree, each character has unique armour but you can still put different stuff on them, the pacing of dialog in DA2)

Like why can't they let us toggle voice PC or not? It's not hard to do, the only issue there would be timing and resources.

Modifié par Mr.House, 20 avril 2011 - 09:32 .

[Malanek]

1000questions wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. There were so many different changes and so many different opinions on most of them that they are going to have a difficult job reaching a conclusion. I'm worried they will throw away things I liked and keep things I didn't like.

And exactly what things are you talking about in DA2 ?

Things I liked - Companions (all the writing, dialogue, banter, backstory), companions unique armour, the overall story and emphasis on dark and gritty, some of the combat.
Things I didn't like - The finish to the story, the camera, enemy waves were way overused, reused enviroments, pointless quests, everyone was a bloodmage, some of the combat, paraphrases on the dialogue wheel.

All in all I liked the game but it wasn't a classic.

[Emergent System]

...or CAN we?

[Marionetten]

It's not that hard. Keep Mass Effect and Dragon Age separate. Surely we can afford having one action based experience and one strategy based experience without muddying things up?

[Swoo]

Malanek999 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. .

The market will make up Bioware's mind for them, in my opinion. Far superior Action-RPG's are coming out this year, and they are most likely going to sell very, very well. It will be easy for them to point at something like Skyrim and say 'This! This will get us our Call of Duty crowd!' and move more into that direction.
I would love to see a return back to Origins though.

You honestly believe they are going to move in the direction of the elder scrolls? I certainly hope not. I tried Morrowind on someones advice and I hated it. Too unfocused, story was rubbish and the hideously unbalanced scaleable combat system was terrible. Then the same person said Oblivion had fixed all the things I hated about it so I bought that and found exactly the same problems.

No, I don't believe they will go into the exact same direction as Elder Scrolls. However, TES success coupled with several other action-RPG's slated within the next year will most likely sell well enough that they will point to that as a reason to go deeper into the action genepool instead of away from it back towards more traditional RPG elements.

[GammaRayJim]

Volourn wrote...

DA2 did no such thing. BIO's name did so. BIO has been selling agmes for 10+ years.

I bet DA1 cost a lot fo sales for DA2 since a lot of people who play DA1 loathed it or didn't even bother finishing it so they probably passed on DA2 because of DA1.

DA1 probably cost DA2 hundreds of thousnads if not millions of sales.

See hwo spin can work, guys?

R00fles!

That's not spin that's fabrication. You are betting DA1 cost sales because of your  made up belief that people lothed it. And yet it was lauded as one of the RPG's ever. People loved it and proved that they loved it by buying it and telling thier friends to buy it. Sales actually increased over time with DA:O. Unlike DA2 which only had sales due to a prebuilt fanbase of DA:O who preordered it and who now are hating on it and sales are dropping like a rock. So you are not spinning anything but actually making sh@# up. There is a difference.

[abnocte]

As much as I would like it to happen, I don't see Bioware going back.

The changes were made willingly, I see no other reason to completely change the combat when fastening DA:O would had improved things a lot. 

It's like they didn't want to keep doing party based RPG, in DA2 you can totally ignore your party unless you increase the difficulty level. Why a party based game has a "Normal" difficulty level where you don't use your party at all? shouldn't that only happen in "Casual/Easy" ? ( yeah, I know you can solo DA:O with a good build, but that's not the point I'm trying to make...)

Also DA2 is too focused on combat ( even more than DAO ), no puzzles, no riddles, no persuasion/intimidate options to avoid combat...just spam abilities and wait for cooldowns; hell, they even removed enemies special attacks like overwhelm for spiders/wolfs/mabaris, Ogre/Sylvans grabbing that added a much more interesting gameplay tactic than continous weaves of walking bombs....

I would like some middle ground, but I don't even see that happening... 

[Shasow]

I only bought Origins because of DA2...but that only happened for a small group of people.

[Sentox6]

Possibly the critical reviews and more reasoned arguments might prompt some changes. The metacritic user reviews won't do anything though. Even Portal 2 is getting the same treatment, which just goes to show how irrational a lot of so-called "gamers" are.

http://www.destructo...ts-199220.phtml

[Malanek]

Sentox6 wrote...
http://www.destructo...ts-199220.phtml

That was absolutely hillarious.

[Swoo]

Sentox6 wrote...

Possibly the critical reviews and more reasoned arguments might prompt some changes. The metacritic user reviews won't do anything though. Even Portal 2 is getting the same treatment, which just goes to show how irrational a lot of so-called "gamers" are.

http://www.destructo...ts-199220.phtml

I'll have to recheck, but last I saw the Portal 2 Meta was standing at a 95/8.0 versus DA2's 82/4.2.

Portal 2 seems to be a small branch being very vocal, while DA2 seems to be divided straight down the middle.

Edit: Just read that link, that's great. Love to see people throw off the P.C. shackles once and awhile and just let loose. Go get 'em Destructoid.

Modifié par Swoo, 20 avril 2011 - 09:59 .

[ejoslin]

Swoo wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I'm afraid they won't know what to do. .

The market will make up Bioware's mind for them, in my opinion. Far superior Action-RPG's are coming out this year, and they are most likely going to sell very, very well. It will be easy for them to point at something like Skyrim and say 'This! This will get us our Call of Duty crowd!' and move more into that direction.
I would love to see a return back to Origins though.

You honestly believe they are going to move in the direction of the elder scrolls? I certainly hope not. I tried Morrowind on someones advice and I hated it. Too unfocused, story was rubbish and the hideously unbalanced scaleable combat system was terrible. Then the same person said Oblivion had fixed all the things I hated about it so I bought that and found exactly the same problems.

No, I don't believe they will go into the exact same direction as Elder Scrolls. However, TES success coupled with several other action-RPG's slated within the next year will most likely sell well enough that they will point to that as a reason to go deeper into the action genepool instead of away from it back towards more traditional RPG elements.

I'm hoping the opposite happens.  There is so little competition in the tradition RPG genre, and DAO proved that there is a (large) market for them.  Actually, if anything, if BW decides to not release any more classic RPGs, it would not surprise me if more independant studios made them.

I just hope whoever steps in to fill that niche makes good stories, good romances, and most importantly (to me), a choice of gender!

[Mr.House]

Sentox6 wrote...

Possibly the critical reviews and more reasoned arguments might prompt some changes. The metacritic user reviews won't do anything though. Even Portal 2 is getting the same treatment, which just goes to show how irrational a lot of so-called "gamers" are.

http://www.destructo...ts-199220.phtml

This made my day.