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Anyone afraid the bad review might make BioWare go back to Origins style?


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#101
Persephone

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Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Would I want them to go back to Origins completely? No. (I won't be sorry to see the Approval system, gift spamming, grinding dungeons etc. go FOREVER)

But there are some things I DO want back: Less repetetive enviroments & more locations. Isometric camera. Length. Fully equippable companions. More varied plot branches.

Things I want them to keep: Rivalry/Friendship system and Friendship & Rivalmances, Hero developing a personality & thus unlocking different dialogue options & solutions, realistic influence on people (No more God like decisions), the exquisite banter, art style for the elves & qunari (Who now actually LOOK like different races) Fast paced combat system but improvements ARE necessary. Voiced protagonist.

Improvements I would like: Weather & season effects, locations and people changing as time passes, no more exploding bodies but unique animations depending on the skill applied

Some of the issues were fixed by mods (Equipping companions, exploding bodies).



I definitely agree.

My sister misses being able to customize.

If we cant do that...how about color changes???   Fenris would look great in Black and silver!! :wizard:

Season effects would be nice too.

Combat should be  should be somewhere in the middle.



Good points, Melca.

There is a Mod on Nexus that offers differently colored versions of the armor each companion wears. And if you want total freedom, the Mod "Equip your companions" allows you to dress them in anything. (Careful with Fenris & Merrill though, as not every armor has an elven model. I use it in combination with the recolored armors where you get differently specced & recolored armors for them rather than upgrades. You can switch between them. Great addition to immersion!)

#102
ManiacalEvil

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Foolsfolly wrote...

Another flaw of Origins was how you could sometimes control your companions (armor, weapons) and other times not (dialogue) which made it incoherent. DA2 is much better in that aspect, since char personality is revealed by their choice of clothes and the fact they won't let Hawke decide what they wear.


It's a flaw that you couldn't control companion's dialogue?

Depends. It wouldn't matter if you couldn't control their clothing. If you control their clothing it is inconsistent that you can't control everything else.

#103
Dragoonlordz

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Ruud333 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is greedy that one group of people who like a certain gameplay mechanic in turn change all gameplay/genre types into this single mechanic because they like it. It does deprive diversity in gaming.


No, people are just giving honest feedback on forums to game developers (who are actually the ones that "change all gameplay/genre types"), you just don't like that it doesn't match what you want (which I understand) . 

However, instead of just accepting this you seem to have to attach a negative characteristic to the people who disagree with you.  It is like when people don't like aspects of a game, and say it has been dumbed down for console/younger gamers (as an example).  It seems people cannot just be mad at a developer for changing a game in wyas they don't like; they have to also be mad at and insult a group of gamers that fall into a different category to them.

anyways /mini-rant




Brent (lead on DAO) has said himself he didn't like the direction of DA2 and went against the sort of game direction he had created DAO in. Ray and Greg have said that the third person style roleplay in ME did not suit DA and as with the same with wheel and voiced main protagnist mechanics.

Mike took the reins DA2 went a complete different direction. Don't argue with me about what it is I like just because I am of the same mindset as the creators of DAO in what I want to see in DA, when the developers themselves have been quoted as saying such things in DA2 was not something they either wanted or thought would work within DA.

Now I don't know what magical powers or hypnosis Mike used to make so many changes that was specifically quoted from his bosses that they didn't think would work in DA.

Brent Knowles

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play.


Ray and Greg interview

Muzyka and Zeschuk say the difference in the two games' dialogue systems is one of perspective, literally. After fielding questions about Dragon Age's approach at GDC 2009 in San Francisco earlier this year, the two came to the conclusion that the reason Mass Effect's dialogue system doesn't work well with Dragon Age (they tried it) is because the latter is first-person and the former is third-person. Change perspectives, and the entire game changes with it.

In Mass Effect, a third-person game, you take a character and mold them into a new person, directing the character rather than fully inhabiting her or him. As you play, you're able to watch that directed person act in the game, speaking with the voice you have helped shape. But in Dragon Age, you don't watch the conversation because you are the conversation. After the success of Mass Effect, Muzyka and Zeschuk say they thought about applying the dialogue system to all their games but soon realized that different experiences call for different approaches.

"We talked about this for months, and we did all kinds of analysis," says Zeschuk. "Really we see it as a step sideways. It's actually about presenting different flavors of games."

In part, the flavor difference between Mass Effect and Dragon Age is one of artistic approach (among many other factors). The vision for Mass Effect was intensely cinematic, from the depth-of-field effect in conversations to the camera angles, music and dramatic effect of the on-screen actions of your character. In Mass Effect, you tell Shepard to do something, and then you watch him or her act.

"It's that little bit of surprise because you just don't feel like you're in complete control of it, whereas in Dragon Age, you are that character. That is you. You're doing it. Everything is you," says Zeschuk.

It's that subtle but distinct difference that makes Mass Effect's dialogue system a poor fit for Dragon Age: Origins, Muzyka and Zeschuk say, and it's a choice they think players will find natural when they finally get behind the controls. Additionally, the Dragon Age system, because it's not tied to a relatively small graphic with a maximum of five or six choices, can offer far more conversation possibilities than its third-person cousin.

"For those four to six choices you get, there are probably four to six times more you don't see that would be totally different depending on your origin choice, your choices up to that point in the game, whether you're male or female, and a variety of other things," says Muzyka. "It's about the role you're playing. Are you playing a set role, or are you playing a role you've defined yourself?"



#104
Addai

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Would that it were so. But, I would settle for the next Dragon Age game to at least be as polished and actually cinematic as ME2 was.

Modifié par Addai67, 20 avril 2011 - 07:00 .


#105
ManiacalEvil

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Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Would I want them to go back to Origins completely? No. (I won't be sorry to see the Approval system, gift spamming, grinding dungeons etc. go FOREVER)

But there are some things I DO want back: Less repetetive enviroments & more locations. Isometric camera. Length. Fully equippable companions. More varied plot branches.

Things I want them to keep: Rivalry/Friendship system and Friendship & Rivalmances, Hero developing a personality & thus unlocking different dialogue options & solutions, realistic influence on people (No more God like decisions), the exquisite banter, art style for the elves & qunari (Who now actually LOOK like different races) Fast paced combat system but improvements ARE necessary. Voiced protagonist.

Improvements I would like: Weather & season effects, locations and people changing as time passes, no more exploding bodies but unique animations depending on the skill applied

Some of the issues were fixed by mods (Equipping companions, exploding bodies).



I definitely agree.

My sister misses being able to customize.

If we cant do that...how about color changes???   Fenris would look great in Black and silver!! :wizard:

Season effects would be nice too.

Combat should be  should be somewhere in the middle.



Good points, Melca.

There is a Mod on Nexus that offers differently colored versions of the armor each companion wears. And if you want total freedom, the Mod "Equip your companions" allows you to dress them in anything. (Careful with Fenris & Merrill though, as not every armor has an elven model. I use it in combination with the recolored armors where you get differently specced & recolored armors for them rather than upgrades. You can switch between them. Great addition to immersion!)

That seems immersion breaking to me. How the hell do you get to dress Fenris now? Has he become your slave?

#106
Brenus

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Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.

#107
Persephone

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Foolsfolly wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Would I want them to go back to Origins completely? No. (I won't be sorry to see the Approval system, gift spamming, grinding dungeons etc. go FOREVER)

But there are some things I DO want back: Less repetetive enviroments & more locations. Isometric camera. Length. Fully equippable companions. More varied plot branches.

Things I want them to keep: Rivalry/Friendship system and Friendship & Rivalmances, Hero developing a personality & thus unlocking different dialogue options & solutions, realistic influence on people (No more God like decisions), the exquisite banter, art style for the elves & qunari (Who now actually LOOK like different races) Fast paced combat system but improvements ARE necessary. Voiced protagonist.

Improvements I would like: Weather & season effects, locations and people changing as time passes, no more exploding bodies but unique animations depending on the skill applied

Some of the issues were fixed by mods (Equipping companions, exploding bodies).


I agree with everything except for the "god like decisions." I don't know what that means. Nothing in DA:O felt like god-like decisions, unless you simply mean decisions that have far reaching consquences. I wish DA2 had those.


What I meant was that I like that sometimes, no matter what you say or do, people will still do what they want. It felt realistic not being to stop and fix everything and be swept away by fate & circumstances. (One Origins decision that comes to mind is "Let's go to the Circle & fetch the mages & leave a demon at large. Nothing could happen, right?". The immersion was ruined by that lack of realistic pressure. And that you could be gone for months & no consequences happening, even though Teagan urges you to return ASAP. There I would like a combo of that and the decision model in Origins.

#108
Romantiq

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ManiacalEvil wrote...

This game is not as well rated as the previous game, I think we can all conclude that. Am I the only one afraid that the nostalgia backlash this game received will make BioWare games become less actiony in the future? I immensely enjoyed DA2 and I'd go as far as to classify it as one of my top 5 games (Origins didn't make it, a bit too boring and slow). I really enjoy how actiony yet tactical the combat was, how deep the characters were (being able to talk to your family really made those characters awesome)

I am afraid the reviews will make DA3 have combat like DA:O which I found boring and unreallistically slow, and return to unvoiced and list dialogue, instead of wheeled and voiced. Anyone else feels like this?

EDITED to remove spoilers.


I just hope they will make a quality game next time.

#109
AkiKishi

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ManiacalEvil wrote...
Another flaw of Origins was how you could sometimes control your companions (armor, weapons) and other times not (dialogue) which made it incoherent. DA2 is much better in that aspect, since char personality is revealed by their choice of clothes and the fact they won't let Hawke decide what they wear.


That's not a flaw, it allows you to outfit companions for specific roles. Alistair in 100% FR gear was a staple of many of my Origins parties.
Your companions boarder on moronic when the gear you vendor trash is soooooooooooo much better than the crap they choose to wear.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 20 avril 2011 - 07:02 .


#110
Dragoonlordz

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Foolsfolly wrote...

As funny as that is, I don't think it's factual.

I feel there's far more quests in DA:O than there are in DA2.

Someone has to have the number of quests per game. I'd say Origins easily had over a 100 quests. I can't think DA2 has more than 80. In fact, 60-70 feels about right. Someone has to have numbers.


From the wikis I counted around 120 in DAO (Most were board, chantry, irregulars etc type) and in DA2 I counted around 130 (most of which were fetch.. No correction, 'collection' quests). However those were rough estimates and the wiki for DA2 was still in progress.

#111
Melca36

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Zjarcal wrote...

They didn't let the glowing Origins reviews stop them from changing things, so why would they cave because the reviews are polarized now?

I hope they DON'T go back to the older style by the way.


I don't want them to go totally back but they need to learn you can't pander to one fanbase.

There needs to be a balance to appeal to everybody. They would sell MORE games that way. :wizard:

#112
Brenus

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ManiacalEvil wrote...

That seems immersion breaking to me. How the hell do you get to dress Fenris now? Has he become your slave?


Seriously?

Lets say I find a nice new magical shiny sword, but I am a mage and cannot use it. I notice that Aveline is still using a really old rusty blade, and she could use a new weapon. I have two options, either sell the new sword to a merchant, or give it to Aveline. However its completely immersion breaking that in DA2, you cannot give new and better equipment to your party members.

Also, party based games assume that you are the leader of your party. It isnt immersion breaking to command your party, give them orders, and provie them with better equiment to keep them alive in battle.

Modifié par Brenus, 20 avril 2011 - 07:05 .


#113
Sabriana

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Whatever the thread starter had in mind, it still resolved into a calm discussion (so far). There is actually a way to discuss differences

Take Persephone and myself for example. I think DA 2 is mediocre. She thinks it's great. Our differences in opinion doesn't affect our interaction (sans the Allistair thing, *grin*).

I appreciate her point of view, she appreciates mine. Even though they are on the opposite sites of the issue. Does she go overboard? Yes she does. But if something I liked with a passion was attacked at every turn, I might act that way too. But I will never, ever doubt that she loves DA:O. It's the nature of the beast that makes us react. She loves DA 2, and I think it's merely "meh". But we still can be civil with each other.

I respect the reasonable arguments that those who enjoy DA 2 have. In turn, I would like for them to respect my laments. Attack the argument not the person. That's the rule # 1 in any debate.

Aside from that, I love the Sacher Torte that the Östereicher can serve up at any time.

Edited because spelling is an art form

Modifié par Sabriana, 20 avril 2011 - 07:04 .


#114
Persephone

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Brenus wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.


Didn't you like...never play the game itself but cancel your order?

:mellow:

#115
ManiacalEvil

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Brenus wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.

For the millionth time DA2 is good. See I can makes argumentz too!

#116
Zjarcal

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Addai67 wrote...

Would that it were so. But, I would settle for the next Dragon Age game to at least be as polished and actually cinematic as ME2 was.


That's what I wound want above everything else, for the game to be polished. As I've said before, while I universally like the design of DA2 better than Origins, the game sorely lacked polish.

#117
ManiacalEvil

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Brenus wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

That seems immersion breaking to me. How the hell do you get to dress Fenris now? Has he become your slave?


Seriously?

Lets say I find a nice new magical shiny sword, but I am a mage and cannot use it. I notice that Aveline is still using a really old rusty blade, and she could use a new weapon. I have two options, either sell the new sword to a merchant, or offer it to Aveline.

Also, party based games assume that you are the leader of your party. It isnt immersion breaking to command your party, give them orders, and provie them with better equiment to keep them alive in battle.

That's kind of different from saying take this armor and wear it **** I don't care what you think. She would slap you and leave.

#118
Nozybidaj

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Statulos wrote...

Nostalgia for a 2009 game? Give me a break dude. Nostalgia is missing modern bands playing like Black Sabbath in Paranoid, not that.


I suppose it is all relative.  If 2 years is a significant enough fraction of your lifespan, you might consider that a sufficient amount of time to allow for nostalgia. :P

#119
rak72

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It would be AWESOME if they went back to the DAO style. I wish I could press a button & make it so, but the button was a lie.

#120
GammaRayJim

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ManiacalEvil wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Would I want them to go back to Origins completely? No. (I won't be sorry to see the Approval system, gift spamming, grinding dungeons etc. go FOREVER)

But there are some things I DO want back: Less repetetive enviroments & more locations. Isometric camera. Length. Fully equippable companions. More varied plot branches.

Things I want them to keep: Rivalry/Friendship system and Friendship & Rivalmances, Hero developing a personality & thus unlocking different dialogue options & solutions, realistic influence on people (No more God like decisions), the exquisite banter, art style for the elves & qunari (Who now actually LOOK like different races) Fast paced combat system but improvements ARE necessary. Voiced protagonist.

Improvements I would like: Weather & season effects, locations and people changing as time passes, no more exploding bodies but unique animations depending on the skill applied

Some of the issues were fixed by mods (Equipping companions, exploding bodies).



I definitely agree.

My sister misses being able to customize.

If we cant do that...how about color changes???   Fenris would look great in Black and silver!! :wizard:

Season effects would be nice too.

Combat should be  should be somewhere in the middle.


Another flaw of Origins was how you could sometimes control your companions (armor, weapons) and other times not (dialogue) which made it incoherent. DA2 is much better in that aspect, since char personality is revealed by their choice of clothes and the fact they won't let Hawke decide what they wear.

This has nothing to do with Hawke deciding what they should wear but the games designers dseciding what they should wear...so let's not confuse this. Mr. Laidlaw stated that he didn't like seeing the DA:O characters in clothing other than what they originally started with. Which makes no sense what so ever because I find having Leliana going into battle in Chantry robes totally absurd. I said this once before and I will say it again the way a character is written not dressed should be how they are veiwed. A characters personality is not or should not ever be based on how they are dressed. If they are then that is horrible writing.

#121
Brenus

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Persephone wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.


Didn't you like...never play the game itself but cancel your order?

:mellow:


Why would I play a game that I know is terrible?

#122
Persephone

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ManiacalEvil wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Would I want them to go back to Origins completely? No. (I won't be sorry to see the Approval system, gift spamming, grinding dungeons etc. go FOREVER)

But there are some things I DO want back: Less repetetive enviroments & more locations. Isometric camera. Length. Fully equippable companions. More varied plot branches.

Things I want them to keep: Rivalry/Friendship system and Friendship & Rivalmances, Hero developing a personality & thus unlocking different dialogue options & solutions, realistic influence on people (No more God like decisions), the exquisite banter, art style for the elves & qunari (Who now actually LOOK like different races) Fast paced combat system but improvements ARE necessary. Voiced protagonist.

Improvements I would like: Weather & season effects, locations and people changing as time passes, no more exploding bodies but unique animations depending on the skill applied

Some of the issues were fixed by mods (Equipping companions, exploding bodies).



I definitely agree.

My sister misses being able to customize.

If we cant do that...how about color changes???   Fenris would look great in Black and silver!! :wizard:

Season effects would be nice too.

Combat should be  should be somewhere in the middle.



Good points, Melca.

There is a Mod on Nexus that offers differently colored versions of the armor each companion wears. And if you want total freedom, the Mod "Equip your companions" allows you to dress them in anything. (Careful with Fenris & Merrill though, as not every armor has an elven model. I use it in combination with the recolored armors where you get differently specced & recolored armors for them rather than upgrades. You can switch between them. Great addition to immersion!)

That seems immersion breaking to me. How the hell do you get to dress Fenris now? Has he become your slave?


Huh?

If I'm the leader of a party and come across a better piece of equipment, I'll either use it myself or give it to my companions. You know, to increase their chances of survival.

#123
lanmao

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I don't think it will push them to go all the way back to an origins style, but maybe it will help them to strike a better balance between the old and new.

#124
Persephone

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Brenus wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.


Didn't you like...never play the game itself but cancel your order?

:mellow:


Why would I play a game that I know is terrible?


Why would I read a book when other people tell me it's terrible? To form my own opinions. More often than not, it's been rewarding.

#125
Brenus

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Persephone wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Brenus wrote...

Whyp_2 wrote...

OP

They won't go back. And that's good. I mean I do miss DA:O but DA2 is not bad, for the millionth time


For the millionth time DA2 is bad.

I dont see how people can still defend this game, all they do is continue poisoning RPG games, and future ones will be just as bad, if not worse because EA / Bioware continue listening to the people that they should actually be ignoring.


Didn't you like...never play the game itself but cancel your order?

:mellow:


Why would I play a game that I know is terrible?


Why would I read a book when other people tell me it's terrible? To form my own opinions. More often than not, it's been rewarding.


Why would I buy and read a whole book if I read the blurb and the first chapter and didnt like any of it?