318 réponses à ce sujet

[Viyu]

Oh wait did I say chantry? I meant circle. But if you get rid of the chantry it's obvious the right of Annulment would be activated and the circle would collapse, so there would be no circle. Making it basically a moot point.

[mhendon]

Anders seems to be an Andrastian to some extent, but doesn't interpret the chant in the same way that the majority seems to as it pertains to mages. This is consistent from Awakening to 2 thankfully. So I don't think he has anything against the chantry otherwise.

[Viyu]

Yeah, that part is in character. Believing that the chant was perverted to be anti-mage. But wanting to get rid of the chantry? No. Especially when the Chantry and the Circle have a relationship that he begrudgingly supported and suddenly doesn't now...for no apparent reason!

You can't make him a renegade out of the blue, guys. The coward is suddenly willing to martyr himself? Seriously?! It's a waste, truly. Character development would've been interesting and would've given me a hell of a lot more than a week's time to finish the game. This felt like a reboot of the series than a continuation of the mythos.

Modifié par Viyu, 21 avril 2011 - 06:40 .

[Sabariel]

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

[Viyu]

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

Erm..that's not really what I was getting at. Why can't anybody ELSE be made tranquil if they die in his dream. And why aren't Anders and justice not separated.

[Sabariel]

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

Erm..that's not really what I was getting at. Why can't anybody ELSE be made tranquil if they die in his dream. And why aren't Anders and justice not separated.

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

[Viyu]

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

Erm..that's not really what I was getting at. Why can't anybody ELSE be made tranquil if they die in his dream. And why aren't Anders and justice not separated.

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

You can't merge if its consensual, look at what happened with Connor.

[Sabariel]

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

Erm..that's not really what I was getting at. Why can't anybody ELSE be made tranquil if they die in his dream. And why aren't Anders and justice not separated.

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

You can't merge if its consensual, look at what happened with Connor.

What on earth are you talking about? Connor was possessed. He didn't merge with the demon. If he did there would have been no way to save him.

[TheComfyCat]

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

You can't merge if its consensual, look at what happened with Connor.

(I mentioned it before but everyone was too wrapped up in the orientation debate...)

Gaider mentioned in this post that spirits meld with while demons possess their host, and that the two are different things. Sounds to me like melding with Justice is certainly cause for the changes we see in DA2 Anders, since he really is a different person from who he was in Awakening.

[Viyu]

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...

DeaHamlet wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Why he or Merrill don't become Tranquil when killed in Feynriel's dream isn't explained. I won't bother to speculate.

Merrill and Anders don't become Tranquil because the group is essentially attached to Feynriel's mind, not Anders' and not Merrill's.

That's a great explanation, thank you!  I was kind of murking about in that general direction but feeling still a tad confused.  This makes it super clear for me.  So again, thanx!

That doesn't make much sense to me. Isn't the fade a dimension in and of itself? Why does it matter if you are in someone else's dream? 

The mind is a conduit. You are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and no one else's. If you kill Fade Feynriel you sever his connection to the Fade thus making him Tranquil. Mages in DAO were made Tranquil the same way.

Erm..that's not really what I was getting at. Why can't anybody ELSE be made tranquil if they die in his dream. And why aren't Anders and justice not separated.

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

You can't merge if its consensual, look at what happened with Connor.

What on earth are you talking about? Connor was possessed. He didn't merge with the demon. If he did there would have been no way to save him.

But the thing is that Connor was possed because he allowed the demon to willingly take control of him like Anders did with Justice. Justice did not force posession on Anders so shouldn't it be possible for them to be separated?

[Viyu]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

Viyu wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Because Feynriel's mind is the connection to the Fade. That is why Anders and Merrill cannot be made Tranquil during that quest. They are connected to the Fade through Feynriel's mind and not their own at that point in time.

As for Anders and Justice, Justice did not possess Anders, they merged. Apparently that makes it a more permanent thing.

You can't merge if its consensual, look at what happened with Connor.

(I mentioned it before but everyone was too wrapped up in the orientation debate...)

Gaider mentioned in this post that spirits meld with while demons possess their host, and that the two are different things. Sounds to me like melding with Justice is certainly cause for the changes we see in DA2 Anders, since he really is a different person from who he was in Awakening.

Still, didn't Justice become a demon when he merged with Anders? And aren't demons and spirits really the same aside from personality traits? The writers shouldn't be TELLING us this in posts, they should be showing us in story. Because if certain fans who don't frequent the boards get confused, there will be nobody there to solve the confusion, anyway.

Modifié par Viyu, 21 avril 2011 - 07:24 .

[Sabariel]

Viyu wrote...


But the thing is that Connor was possed because he allowed the demon to willingly take control of him like Anders did with Justice. Justice did not force posession on Anders so shouldn't it be possible for them to be separated?

Connor's demon and Justice are two different entities and two very different processes occured.

Connor made a deal with the demon to save his father (most likely without really knowing what he was assenting to) and the demon forcibly took control of him. Connor was possessed.

Possess: to occupy, dominate, or control (a person) from within.

Anders agreed to be a host for Justice, to merge with him, so they could work together. Anders is not possessed. He and Justice are one.

Merge: to combine, blend, or unite gradually so as to blur the individuality or individual identity of.

Two very, very different things.

Viyu wrote...

Still,
didn't Justice become a demon when he merged with Anders? And aren't
demons and spirits really the same aside from personality traits? The
writers shouldn't be TELLING us this in posts, they should be showing us
in story. Because if certain fans who don't frequent the boards get
confused, there will be nobody there to solve the confusion, anyway.

They merged before Justice went Full Demon so that wouldn't make any difference. The process was complete.

Modifié par Sabariel, 21 avril 2011 - 07:27 .

[Viyu]

Connor's demon and Justice are two different entities and two very different processes occured.

Connor made a deal with the demon to save his father (most likely without really knowing what he was assenting to) and the demon forcibly took control of him. Connor was possessed.

Possess: to occupy, dominate, or control (a person) from within.

Anders agreed to be a host for Justice, to merge with him, so they could work together. Anders is not possessed. He and Justice are one.

Merge: to combine, blend, or unite gradually so as to blur the individuality or individual identity of.

Anders made a deal with Justice too; just with a different set of conditions, so I'm still confused, since the difference between demons and spirits are merely personality characteristics. More importantly Justice does not make distinctions between what is just, and what is vengence in Awakening. He says words such as "vengence" or "avenged" a deal, but Vengence is a demon not a spirit. But the question remains, why would Anders the coward accept Jusice's help when he was intially so apathetic towards helping mages?

Modifié par Viyu, 21 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Sabariel]

I've already clearly explained why Justice and Anders' situation is different. Not doing it again.

As for why Anders accepted Justice's help...because he changed his mind? People do that, you know. Justice and Anders have many talks about mages and freedom. Perhaps Anders thought it over and decided that maybe Justice had a point.

[Maren03]

As to your arguments regarding his change in character... well, he's not Anders anymore by the time we see him in DA2 since he's already merged with Justice. Why would we see any transition between Awakening/ DA2 Anders? He's different as soon as he became one with Justice. He may still have similar characteristics of Awakening Anders, but he's not the same person anymore.

At most though, Anders and Justice would co-exist as two distinct, split personalities. If Anders and Justice were completely interwoven as one personality, why would Justice need to 'come out' if he was already one with him completely? Why would Anders have trouble controlling him or keeping conscious when Justice emerges if it weren't implicative the two were distinct from each other? Even if he did merge with justice, the point still stands that they're not of one mind. So why is it that a lot of Anders' key personality traits diluted to the point he was almost completely beyond recognition by the time we meet him in Act I? Justice isn't to blame for Anders' OOCness. If you read Hepler's story, he was already acting like how he was in the game before the merging. So I sort of feel like Justice is just being used as an excuse by the author to mold the character into someone else easier for them to write.

Also an interesting thing to note about Connor's instance is that, (provided you fought to kill him), the demon was actually able to fully take posession of his body and physically manifest through him. If Justice is indeed a corrupted spirit as the writers are trying to potray him as, he may have developed similar properties to him now akin to a demon. Gaider also mentioned the nature of a spirit can change. Its a mostly unexplored concept, but would certainly make an interesting extention to Anders' story. Justice is obviously getting a bit out of hand, and eventually, if it persists is going to come down to Anders having to make a choice on what to do with his old friend. I'd love to see a DLC exploring this journey. IMO, its time the mess that started in DA2 got resolved and he get his life back, already.

On the other hand, with the Circles out of commission by the end of the game, there might not as much of a need for Justice to be as active anymore for a full possession to be as immediate a problem. It really depends on how Bioware plays it.

Modifié par Maren03, 21 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[HTTP 404]

I think sequels either ruin most decisions or limit players from having major decisions if a new sequel is considered.

[MikoDoll]

Sabariel wrote...

Viyu wrote...


But the thing is that Connor was possed because he allowed the demon to willingly take control of him like Anders did with Justice. Justice did not force posession on Anders so shouldn't it be possible for them to be separated?

Connor's demon and Justice are two different entities and two very different processes occured.

Connor made a deal with the demon to save his father (most likely without really knowing what he was assenting to) and the demon forcibly took control of him. Connor was possessed.

The demon didn't forcibly take control of him. The demon took control of a boy that consented and forced itself to have control of the boy's body AFTER he'd consented to the posession. What Connor lacked was informed consent. However Jowan notes it is simply the act of consent which makes it possible to save him. Most demons probably do not actually give the people they tempt what they truly want anyway. Not only that but Anders doesn't specifically seem informed with Justice's preocupation with vengeance in Awakening and is written to agree with merging with Justice under the pretense Justice wouldn't seek vengeance.

Anders agreed to be a host for Justice, to merge with him, so they could work together. Anders is not possessed. He and Justice are one.

Anders doesn't show signs of being "one", or Justice wouldn't really need to emerge at specific moments when they'd both be the same person.

They merged before Justice went Full Demon so that wouldn't make any difference. The process was complete.

1. Anders describes Justice as someone who is now defined by "vengance" but vengance is a word he specifically uses to describe his behavior before he'd merged with Anders. This would imply, whether Anders was aware or not, that Justice was being "tainted" before he had merged with him.

2. The fact that again,  Justice can say emerge from within Anders and that Anders starts blacking out and not even knowing what's going on after awhile (if you pursue rivalry) shows their personalities haven't "merged." There are two distinct entities that inhabit the same body. This would suggest against a personality merge. In the earlier acts they are aware of what the other does, but that doesn't mean they've merged. And with time, it seems as though Anders recalls less and less of what Justice actually does.

Modifié par MikoDoll, 21 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[Maren03]

Mass Effect kept pretty consistent with its lore and decision results, so I don't think its outside Bioware's capacity. I think the problem was that they wanted the story to go in a specific direction that just didn't fit. For example, Anders' and Justice's possession should've been an optional occurence in ACT II or III based on the various epilogues they had. If it didn't happen then one of Anders' associates in the resistance could've blown up the Chantry instead.

[Viyu]

Maren03 wrote...

Mass Effect kept pretty consistent with its lore and decision results, so I don't think its outside Bioware's capacity. I think the problem was that they wanted the story to go in a specific direction that just didn't fit. For example, Anders' and Justice's possession should've been an optional occurence in ACT II or III based on the various epilogues they had. If it didn't happen then one of Anders' associates in the resistance could've blown up the Chantry instead.

I think there either should've been a "hardening Anders" quest which explains his transition from coward to revolutionary, or there should've been detailed conversations about what events occured specifically to change Anders' perspective. Justice alone wasn't getting though to him in Awakening, Anders always brushed off Justice as an idealist, so playing Awakening wouldn't give you a clue. Again, while there's foreshadowing about the posession, there's still no explanation as to how Anders got so much courage and bravado.

Modifié par Viyu, 21 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[TheComfyCat]

Maren03 wrote...

As to your arguments regarding his change in character... well, he's not Anders anymore by the time we see him in DA2 since he's already merged with Justice. Why would we see any transition between Awakening/ DA2 Anders? He's different as soon as he became one with Justice. He may still have similar characteristics of Awakening Anders, but he's not the same person anymore.

At most though, Anders and Justice would co-exist as two distinct, split personalities. If Anders and Justice were completely interwoven as one personality, why would Justice need to 'come out' if he was already one with him completely? Why would Anders have trouble controlling him or keeping conscious when Justice emerges if it weren't implicative the two were distinct from each other? Even if he did merge with justice, the point still stands that they're not of one mind. So why is it that a lot of Anders' key personality traits diluted to the point he was almost completely beyond recognition by the time we meet him in Act I? Justice isn't to blame for Anders' OOCness. If you read Hepler's story, he was already acting like how he was in the game before the merging. So I sort of feel like Justice is just being used as an excuse by the author to mold the character into someone else easier for them to write.

Also an interesting thing to note about Connor's instance is that, (provided you fought to kill him), the demon was actually able to fully take posession of his body and physically manifest through him. If Justice is indeed a corrupted spirit as the writers are trying to potray him as, he may have developed similar properties to him now akin to a demon. Gaider also mentioned the nature of a spirit can change. Its a mostly unexplored concept, but would certainly make an interesting extention to Anders' story. Justice is obviously getting a bit out of hand, and eventually, if it persists is going to come down to Anders having to make a choice on what to do with his old friend. I'd love to see a DLC exploring this journey. IMO, its time the mess that started in DA2 got resolved and he get his life back, already.

On the other hand, with the Circles out of commission by the end of the game, there might not as much of a need for Justice to be as active anymore for a full possession to be as immediate a problem. It really depends on how Bioware plays it.

It seems that Anders does begin to change some of his views on mages before joining with Justice. This banter is a good example:

Anders: Sometimes, I think you have the right idea.
Isabela: Handcuffs, whipped cream, always be on top?
Anders: I never used to give two bits what anyone thought of me.
Anders: Justice once asked me why I didn't do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work.
Anders: But I couldn't go back after that. Couldn't stop thinking about it.
Anders: Sometimes, I miss being that selfish.
Isabela: Huh? Were you talking? I was still at "whipped cream."

Merging with Justice changed Anders irrevocably, but it's not Justice that makes Anders all blue and glowy; that's Vengeance. It seems that Anders merged with a fade spirit that then was warped. It doesn't seem to be a rather benign merging like Faith and Wynne, nor does it seem to be a full demonic possession like with Connor.

I'm guessing the whole demon/ spirit thing is something that will continue to be explored in-game, though, as it seems pretty complicated. And I'm not sure the opinions of the characters can really be taken as truth either (e.g. Merrill or Anders), since their views on the Fade are filtered through their religious/ cultural beliefs. Hopefully the writers know the truth... And since Gaider doesn't seem the type to fly by the seat of his pants (just look at all the foreshadowing in Awakening), I'm guessing they do.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 21 avril 2011 - 08:39 .

[Viyu]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

Maren03 wrote...

As to your arguments regarding his change in character... well, he's not Anders anymore by the time we see him in DA2 since he's already merged with Justice. Why would we see any transition between Awakening/ DA2 Anders? He's different as soon as he became one with Justice. He may still have similar characteristics of Awakening Anders, but he's not the same person anymore.

At most though, Anders and Justice would co-exist as two distinct, split personalities. If Anders and Justice were completely interwoven as one personality, why would Justice need to 'come out' if he was already one with him completely? Why would Anders have trouble controlling him or keeping conscious when Justice emerges if it weren't implicative the two were distinct from each other? Even if he did merge with justice, the point still stands that they're not of one mind. So why is it that a lot of Anders' key personality traits diluted to the point he was almost completely beyond recognition by the time we meet him in Act I? Justice isn't to blame for Anders' OOCness. If you read Hepler's story, he was already acting like how he was in the game before the merging. So I sort of feel like Justice is just being used as an excuse by the author to mold the character into someone else easier for them to write.

Also an interesting thing to note about Connor's instance is that, (provided you fought to kill him), the demon was actually able to fully take posession of his body and physically manifest through him. If Justice is indeed a corrupted spirit as the writers are trying to potray him as, he may have developed similar properties to him now akin to a demon. Gaider also mentioned the nature of a spirit can change. Its a mostly unexplored concept, but would certainly make an interesting extention to Anders' story. Justice is obviously getting a bit out of hand, and eventually, if it persists is going to come down to Anders having to make a choice on what to do with his old friend. I'd love to see a DLC exploring this journey. IMO, its time the mess that started in DA2 got resolved and he get his life back, already.

On the other hand, with the Circles out of commission by the end of the game, there might not as much of a need for Justice to be as active anymore for a full possession to be as immediate a problem. It really depends on how Bioware plays it.

It seems that Anders does begin to change some of his views on mages before joining with Justice. This banter is a good example:

Anders: Sometimes, I think you have the right idea.
Isabela: Handcuffs, whipped cream, always be on top?
Anders: I never used to give two bits what anyone thought of me.
Anders: Justice once asked me why I didn't do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work.
Anders: But I couldn't go back after that. Couldn't stop thinking about it.
Anders: Sometimes, I miss being that selfish.
Isabela: Huh? Were you talking? I was still at "whipped cream."

Merging with Justice changed Anders irrevocably, but it's not Justice that makes Anders all blue and glowy; that's Vengeance. It seems that Anders merged with a fade spirit that then was warped. It doesn't seem to be a rather benign merging like Faith and Wynne, nor does it seem to be a full demonic possession like with Connor.

I'm guessing the whole demon/ spirit thing is something that will continue to be explored in-game, though, as it seems pretty complicated. And I'm not sure the opinions of the characters can really be taken as truth either (e.g. Merrill or Anders), since their views on the Fade are filtered through their religious/ cultural beliefs. Hopefully the writers know the truth... And since Gaider doesn't seem the type to fly by the seat of his pants (just look at all the foreshadowing in Awakening), I'm guessing they do.

That still doesn't explain how Anders got over his fear of mage freedom though. And "but I couldn't go back after that" is not a very...fluid explanation. How did he overcome his fear of death and unwillingness to die for the cause of freeing mages, which was one of the reasons he did not want to do it? Apathy and cowardice were the two main themes of Anders' character and it went totally ignored.

Modifié par Viyu, 21 avril 2011 - 08:48 .

[MikoDoll]

Don't forget his anxiety over not having his phylactery.

[TheComfyCat]

I'm guessing that's the point at which Justice's influence is showing. Before DA2 his opinions on mages/ mage freedon were becoming stronger, but it's likely Justice's influence that pushed him into the "rebel mage persona" vs. his previous "pissed off but not willing to commit himself to a cause" attitude.

And this post by Gaider (re: can abominations hide their "true" form) seems relevant:

David Gaider wrote...

It depends on the spirit and how crazy they are. Some people like hard rules, but spirits and demons do not all work the same... either that or there is a pattern that none of you have nobody has discerned yet.

[IanPolaris]

Everyone,

Let's not forget one important fact that distinguishes Anders/Justice from other Spirits and Demons. When Justice and Anders agreed to merge, Justice was not doing so from a domain in the fade. That's the USUAL way it happens. Justice was cut off from the fade so it was possess a host or die. That makes the situation with Justice (as far as I know) unique.

-Polaris

[BlueMew]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

I'm guessing that's the point at which Justice's influence is showing. Before DA2 his opinions on mages/ mage freedon were becoming stronger, but it's likely Justice's influence that pushed him into the "rebel mage persona" vs. his previous "pissed off but not willing to commit himself to a cause" attitude.

And this post by Gaider (re: can abominations hide their "true" form) seems relevant:

David Gaider wrote...

It depends on the spirit and how crazy they are. Some people like hard rules, but spirits and demons do not all work the same... either that or there is a pattern that none of you have nobody has discerned yet.

*approves*
It is good to have a bit of mystery left, expecially when pertaining to spirits and demons and such. Not all loose ends are bad. One of the things about roleplaying systems that annoy me most is that they have a tendency to set everything in stone, from a person's character to how the spirit world works.