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[highcastle]

I realized as soon as I started playing that Anders' character had gone under changes, and I approved immensely. I assumed the changes were made for a reason, to see the deterioration of a character that had been so witty and fun-loving in the past because of his obsession. Then to hear Ms. Hepler compare Anders' condition with some suffering from mental illness and the toll it takes on them, it really confirmed that suspicion to me. Not everyone realizes the strain this places on both the sufferer and those close to them.

I loved Anders in Awakening. I loved him even more in DA2. His was a very emotional storyline, seeded from the start with tragedy. And it was made more tragic because of the person he used to be. We got to see just how far he fell, and it made the game that much more poignant. There will always be people who cry character derailment at the first sign of development and changes, but I for one thought Anders' story was handled with great sensitivity. He really made the game for me. Kudos, Bioware and Ms. Hepler.

[Dave of Canada]

Mecher3k wrote...

So you read twilight series, then became an fool and made DA2's horrible storyline along with Jennifer "Hamburger" Helper.

So fire you, Laidlaw, and Helper and use your salaries to get Brent Knowles back, or at least attempt to.

Thanks.

Can't tell if serious.

[DahliaLynn]

SilentK wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

In my opinion, the middle ground solution for allowing the player to feel better connected to an evolving romance with a character, (or a any relationship in general) would be to allow Hawke to visit the characters homes, and have the ability to converse with them on a more casual level.

It doesn't have to happen in mid quest, but rather would be more logical when in fact visiting ones home. Perhaps add a few more personal optional quests to make that feel a bit more balanced. I also lacked the ability to connect to the drama associated with Anders reactions, due to a lack of the natural process when getting to know someone.


In DA:O the process was more realistic, and you were able to slowly unveil the character's thoughts, history, and feelings. That makes for a more natural connection. If this can be done while visiting the characters home, it may make all the difference.

Hmmm.... I don't get this. I think that you slowly got to know Fenris better, he didn't open up about killing the fogwarrior straight away. It came after Hawke had known him for quite some time and he feelt like he could talk about it.

For me the difference between the companions in DA:O and DA2 is that in DA:O they did not participate as much in the q's that they do in DA2. Then there was one personal q. Well, if Anders had been the example let's say that the personal q in the end had been his only q. Would it have been more emotinal if he had told Hawke about Karl. His ex that he came to save in the Chantry but already had been made tranquil. He then continued with the cliniq and almost killed a girl when trying to find proof for a sinister plot. All of this could have been told in a really heartfeelt discussion.

In DA2 you participate instead. You don't get told, you see for yourself and have to think about it. This is part of the reason why I feel more of a connection with my companions in DA2 than DA:O. In DA:O I was always told past tense of the big events in their life. In DA2 I feelt more like they lived their life with my Hawke. No need to explain that it was a horrible experience for Merrill with the keeper. You could see that quite plainly. If I got to choose I would take the DA2 version of companion-treatment of DA:O any day but that's just me 

There is the story telling portion of getting to know a character, and then there is the experience *with* the character.

I agree, that the more actual experience you have with a character on his personal quests, the more connected you are.
That doesnt mean that when you go home they have nothing more to say. It should be expanded on. They do say something in one added final convo, and it ends there.

The middle ground to solve the disconnection issue, if you leave the conversing to the home as it is now, then at least suppliment with even more personal quests, so at least you can develop something a bit more meaningful than a few words exchanged in very limited conversations.

Bear in mind, I hadn't played awakenings, so in trying to romance Anders I had no previous knowledge of his character.
From the point of view of a stand alone game, the relationship simply doesnt build. and even if I can trick myself into thinking that 3 years have past, and there were events during those 3 years that I haven't experienced, I still couldn't force myself to feel anything, simply because whatever happened in ACT 1 wasn't memorable enough for me to actually envision those three years.

In short, if you take away the dialogue freedom of DA:O then balance it out with having a bit more dialogue options in the home and add a few more optional personal quests, if Hawke desires to explore the character a bit further.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 21 avril 2011 - 07:26 .

[Addai]

highcastle wrote...

I realized as soon as I started playing that Anders' character had gone under changes, and I approved immensely. I assumed the changes were made for a reason, to see the deterioration of a character that had been so witty and fun-loving in the past because of his obsession. Then to hear Ms. Hepler compare Anders' condition with some suffering from mental illness and the toll it takes on them, it really confirmed that suspicion to me. Not everyone realizes the strain this places on both the sufferer and those close to them.

I loved Anders in Awakening. I loved him even more in DA2. His was a very emotional storyline, seeded from the start with tragedy. And it was made more tragic because of the person he used to be. We got to see just how far he fell, and it made the game that much more poignant. There will always be people who cry character derailment at the first sign of development and changes, but I for one thought Anders' story was handled with great sensitivity. He really made the game for me. Kudos, Bioware and Ms. Hepler.

I can see that it's tragic, but I'm not sure why my Hawke is supposed to care.  It's obvious from act 1 that Anders is a trainwreck, and if there's nothing you can do to "fix" him, why get involved?  I had the same dilemma with Merrill.

Now if the Warden had encountered Anders again, then I would be able to feel the tragedy of it in a way that mattered to my game.

[Momiji.mii]

I have to chime in with those who thought Anders' character development played a huge part in their enjoyment of this game. I consider his part in the game to be absolutely top notch writing. We don't get to see his journey from being a seemingly shallow runaway mage with lots of hidden anger and frustration in Awakening to becoming a healer in darktown who struggles to help his fellow countrymen, but with some imagination and with the clues given to us during the game, my mind fills in the blanks. Knowing everything is far less engaging than knowing just enough in my opinion. This is of course a matter of personal taste. Some need all the facts, some like me dislike too much information. I was lucky enough to get what I wanted this time, but I also accept that I might not get my personal tastes catered to next time. That's just the way life works.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Gaider and Hepler for doing such a great job with Anders! Especially Hepler! I have never had such an intense emotion from interacting with a supporting game character before Anders! When he lied to my Hawke, I felt as if Hawke's feelings were my own. I was upset for days! If I hadn't been so heavily invested with the character, I doubt I'd have cared much at all. If this is not a sign of brilliant writing and characterisation, I don't know what is!

[SilentK]

DahliaLynn wrote...

There is the story telling portion of getting to know a character, and then there is the experience *with* the character.

I agree, that the more actual experience you have with a character on his personal quests, the more connected you are.
That doesnt mean that when you go home they have nothing more to say. It should be expanded on. They do say something in one added final convo, and it ends there.

The middle ground to solve the disconnection issue, if you leave the conversing to the home as it is now, then at least suppliment with even more personal quests, so at least you can develop something a bit more meaningful than a few words exchanged in very limited conversations.

Bear in mind, I hadn't played awakenings, so in trying to romance Anders I had no previous knowledge of his character.
From the point of view of a stand alone game, the relationship simply doesnt build. and even if I can trick myself into thinking that 3 years have past, and there were events during those 3 years that I haven't experienced, I still couldn't force myself to feel anything, simply because whatever happened in ACT 1 wasn't memorable enough for me to actually envision those three years.

In short, if you take away the dialogue freedom of DA:O then balance it out with having a bit more dialogue options in the home and add a few more optional personal quests, if Hawke desires to explore the character a bit further.

Hmm... I guess we don't feel the same way about it     =)    no problem. I thought that there were quite a bit of personal quests in DA2 so I guess we're looking for different things. I feelt more connected to my DA2 companions and you prefer DA:O     =)      hey, both are great games in my book.

Modifié par SilentK, 21 avril 2011 - 08:22 .

[tmp7704]

SilentK wrote...

Hmm... I guess we don't feel the same way about it     =)    no problem. I thought that there were quite a bit of personal quests in DA2 so I guess we're looking for different things. I feelt more connected to my DA2 companions and you prefer DA:O     =)      hey, both are great games in my book.

Perhaps one thing to take into account would be, having all the important things happen in player's presence and with his/her input can easily create impression that the companion had literally no life of their own before they met the PC. Which takes away from the idea they're a fully developed individual with their own share of life experiences they went through on their own accord.

In a way this can make you feel more connected to the person, but there's less of an actual person to be connected to... if that makes sense.

Modifié par tmp7704, 21 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

So you read twilight series, then became an fool and made DA2's horrible storyline along with Jennifer "Hamburger" Helper.

So fire you, Laidlaw, and Helper and use your salaries to get Brent Knowles back, or at least attempt to.

Thanks.

Can't tell if serious.

I thought internet law declared that you needed to use the DK Joker pic for that question:

[moilami]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

So you read twilight series, then became an fool and made DA2's horrible storyline along with Jennifer "Hamburger" Helper.

So fire you, Laidlaw, and Helper and use your salaries to get Brent Knowles back, or at least attempt to.

Thanks.

Can't tell if serious.

I thought internet law declared that you needed to use the DK Joker pic for that question:

Lol the fist time I want to know more of the devs. I want to know what's the story behind this Jennifer "Hamburger" Helper xD

[SilentK]

tmp7704 wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Hmm... I guess we don't feel the same way about it     =)    no problem. I thought that there were quite a bit of personal quests in DA2 so I guess we're looking for different things. I feelt more connected to my DA2 companions and you prefer DA:O     =)      hey, both are great games in my book.

Perhaps one thing to take into account would be, having all the important things happen in player's presence and with his/her input can easily create impression that the companion had literally no life of their own before they met the PC. Which takes away from the idea they're a fully developed individual with their own share of life experiences they went through on their own accord.

In a way this can make you feel more connected to the person, but there's less of an actual person to be connected to... if that makes sense.

Hmmm... I see what you mean but I didn't get that feeling with anyone of them, again. That's just me. Fenris certainly had a past and Anders had his life with the wardens and a definite pre- and post-merger with Justice. Isabella I guess feels very much like her own person in the beginning. I would say that the one person that I haven't been able to really figure out yet is Merrill. I really like her but don't know her as well as the others. But that might be because I messed up a bit on her conversations a little. I'm going to act differently next time with her.

Perhaps if you didn't get to know anyting at all about their past and then got to live through everything with them. I don't know. That would depend, if you bond while doing q's and living life then it still should work. Don't remember having a single companion that didn't in some way speak of their past, except for Dog    =)

[Zjarcal]

Apollo Starflare wrote...
As for the other point. Well I doubt many would say no to having a Party Camp style of party member interaction to go along with the superior party member quests and whatnot. However should it come down to a choice between the two I would prefer the DA2 style with a few added 'getting to know you' conversations per character. Instead of being static talk to people one after another in a camp though, having it take place during your adventures or in random locations (similar to the way Awakening works, but with more depth to the system).

That is my position too.

I loved the conversations in Origins and they certainly added a lot to the characters, but I'm the type of player who values sharing and going through important experiences together with companions more than little chats at camp.

For example, in ME2 there was very little dialog to be had in the Normandy yet I still felt strongly attached to all the squadmates because my Shepard went through a lot of personal stuff with them together. The loyalty missions made up for the lack of random conversations because personally, I valued those experiences a lot more than the small talk.

DA2 kind of had the best of both worlds by including in depth personal quests (probably even better than the ME2 loyalty missions) and more conversations at the companions home bases. In ME2 there were maybe 3 or 4 convos per squadmate in the Normandy (including quest related stuff), while there were around 8 to 10 per companion in DA2 (also including quest stuff as well as gift convos). 

Now to be clear, would I like to have more small talk opportunities with my companions? Absolutely. But as it is, the DA2 system works just as fine for me in terms of helping me feel attached to my companions.

A middleground between the two would certainly be ideal nonetheless.

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

julian08 wrote...
Ha, well played Mr. Gaider. People like me who have to play a lot of their favorite games in Dosbox are always going on about how perfect BGII was, and now you use that as an argument. Well played indeed.
But let's be realistic: BGII was released in 2000, and in game terms that pretty much means that it predates the Roman Empire. Fully voiced companion dialogue was just impossible to do back in the day. To me, it seems that your argument is like saying "Charlie Chaplin's The Gold Rush was a great movie, so modern movies don't need sound or color."
Really, it's your own fault people. You showed us what could be done in terms of characterization and party banter nowadays, and now we won't accept anything less.

:blink:Ahem. . . no disrespect meant of course. Please don't use your writing sorcery to make my head explode.

You misunderstand. I am not saying that those expectations aren't justified... things have changed. But some perspective is required. Some people are expressing that they didn't feel as connected to the characters and then looking for what was different and deciding that must be what's at fault. I'm not convinced it is.

And if it is, and someone's requirement is that they must have everything and more in order to feel connected to a character at all ...then you're not going to be connected to any of our characters in the future. If that's truly what it takes, then I can safely say it's not going to happen.

This is not to say that some middle ground isn't possible, but that's middle ground and not "why not just do both?" As I said earlier, in an ideal world you'd get to click on your party members everywhere you liked, get lots of options for new dialogue to initiate and get quest dialogue to boot... but until this becomes the Companion Relationship Game, that's probably unrealistic to expect. Even in DAO that didn't happen, and DA2 was probably even more character focused. There are always going to be resource issues as well as other limitations to contend with (if you want cinematic dialogue, for instance, you need a set stage-- the dialogue cannot happen anywhere... the way our engine works dialogue that can occur anywhere must be "unstaged" and thus have a fixed camera), and while I understand that players will always want more of everything, I'm not at liberty to be okay with the idea that more of everything is required in order for a player to feel emotionally engaged.... and I simply suspect that some people are seeing something missing from what they had before and deciding that the equation now adds up to less than zero.

In short: they're feeling what they're feeling, and that's valid, but there may be other reasons behind it that are more easily addressed. If not, and they require constant dialogue in order to feel any emotional connection, then they're simply not going to get it.

But this is a discussion for a different thread, as it no longer has anything to do with Anders. I'll leave you guys to it.

You know. Maybe you writing a novel about Anders that bridges the gap between Awakening and DAII would appease them. You could call it "Dragon Age: The Justification of Anders". xD

[highcastle]

Addai67 wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I realized as soon as I started playing that Anders' character had gone under changes, and I approved immensely. I assumed the changes were made for a reason, to see the deterioration of a character that had been so witty and fun-loving in the past because of his obsession. Then to hear Ms. Hepler compare Anders' condition with some suffering from mental illness and the toll it takes on them, it really confirmed that suspicion to me. Not everyone realizes the strain this places on both the sufferer and those close to them.

I loved Anders in Awakening. I loved him even more in DA2. His was a very emotional storyline, seeded from the start with tragedy. And it was made more tragic because of the person he used to be. We got to see just how far he fell, and it made the game that much more poignant. There will always be people who cry character derailment at the first sign of development and changes, but I for one thought Anders' story was handled with great sensitivity. He really made the game for me. Kudos, Bioware and Ms. Hepler.

I can see that it's tragic, but I'm not sure why my Hawke is supposed to care.  It's obvious from act 1 that Anders is a trainwreck, and if there's nothing you can do to "fix" him, why get involved?  I had the same dilemma with Merrill.

Now if the Warden had encountered Anders again, then I would be able to feel the tragedy of it in a way that mattered to my game.

So you should only care if there's a way to "fix" someone? Sometimes you care about someone despite their problems, and while you may hope to help them, it's not always possible.

Besides, in Act 1, Anders is not nearly at the same level as he is in Act 3. He's joking with Varric, teasing Carver and Isabela, etc. He's obviously wrestling with controlling Justice, but he's not losing that struggle yet (at least, he doesn't believe he is). As to why you should care about him, that's part of role playing. My Hawke was an apostate who'd spent his whole life hiding from the templars. And here Anders is helping other mages, also living on the run. He identified with Anders. He shared his goals if not his methods. Other Hawkes might consider the line Bethany has about Anders reminding her of their father. There are an infinite number of reasons why a character does or doesn't care for another. In an RPG, it's up to you to come up with that reason.

As for not feeling the tragedy, maybe it's because I took him with me everywhere and thus heard the changes in his banters, but you can see Anders' deterioration even without knowing him from Awakening. As I said before, in Act 1 he's close to how he was in Awakening. He cracks jokes with Varric, gets in a few good one liners ("A wizard did it," anybody?), and is generally a bit lighter. By Act 2, some of this remains (consider his dialogue with Varric where he suggests ways to punish Bartrand for abandoning them), but he's much closer to the edge. It's his personal quest which really pushes him one way or another. He's broken by killing or nearly killing that mage.

I always pursue a romance with him, so again, I may see more of his development than others. But it's clear he clings to Hawke as a lifeline. The codex also confirms that he shies away from his cause and tries to supress Justice. He fails. By the time Act 3 rolls around, he's a severely broken man even compared to his Act 1 self. When Varric tries to have the same conversation they had in Act 2 but with Meredith instead of Bartrand, Anders can't do it. He suspects everyone around him os spying on him or betraying him. After his personal quest, he tries to give away his mother's pillow in a move clearly scripted to be read as a parallel to the actions of the suicidal. I got to that part and my heart broke the first time I played this game. I knew something bad was coming.

Again, how you respond to the character is up to you. But I don't see how any Hawke could miss Anders' downfall throughout this game. They'd have to be pretty oblivious or else never interact with the character. Even listen to Anders' voice. His VA is much more haggard and rough towards the end. 

[Addai]

I suppose the difference is that I didn't find him to be much like Awakening Anders at all, even in Act 1, and he is already out of control in your first quest with him. I honestly don't see much progression between Acts 1 and 3. He's glowing and talking about killing templars from the minute you meet him.

What Mr. Gaider said seems to confirm that Awakening Anders is dead as of the time you meet him.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 avril 2011 - 09:45 .

[Addai]

Zjarcal wrote...
DA2 kind of had the best of both worlds by including in depth personal quests (probably even better than the ME2 loyalty missions) and more conversations at the companions home bases. In ME2 there were maybe 3 or 4 convos per squadmate in the Normandy (including quest related stuff), while there were around 8 to 10 per companion in DA2 (also including quest stuff as well as gift convos). 

How is that different from the companions' personal quests in Origins?

[happy_daiz]

Pity in a way. I did like Awakenings Anders back when that first came out, but I guess it was time he grew up.

I got so used to Anders in DA2 that I completely forgot what he was like in Awakenings, until I played it for a bit the other day. It's amazing how much a simple concept like TIME can fog your memory of something. I like that Anders grew emotionally, and despite him being a person that some people have trouble relating to, I think that the writing succeeded in that you could see his progression through the years. Bravo.

Like him or hate him, you have a strong emotional response either way. That is a success in my book.

[DahliaLynn]

@happy_daiz
In my own perspective, since I have not played Awakenings, no matter what I did, nothing in the game could give me that strong connection you seem to be getting with Anders. I guess the bulk of people who enjoyed the Anders romance must have played Awakenings.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
DA2 kind of had the best of both worlds by including in depth personal quests (probably even better than the ME2 loyalty missions) and more conversations at the companions home bases. In ME2 there were maybe 3 or 4 convos per squadmate in the Normandy (including quest related stuff), while there were around 8 to 10 per companion in DA2 (also including quest stuff as well as gift convos). 

How is that different from the companions' personal quests in Origins?

That those were incredibly short and in some cases didn't even involve the companions. You could hunt for Sten's sword without having him along (and if he was he only made small remarks), or kill Flemeth without Morrigan tagging along.

And in the other cases, it was just too little. Say, I loved taking Alistair to see his sister, but it was only a one time short thing. Had it been spread out through the game in multiple parts (or had it been a longer quest), I'd have liked it a LOT more and it would've been an experience I would've valued much more in terms of how much it made me connect with the character.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 avril 2011 - 10:02 .

[DahliaLynn]

I've created a poll regarding the Anders romance. I would like to know how much of an effect playing Awakenings had on your judgement of the Anders romance in DA2 on the whole. 

social.bioware.com/1770295/polls/18896/

[TEWR]

Mecher3k wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Celestina wrote...
As a complete outsider to the development of the game, I will not begin to assume why Jennifer Hepler was assigned with writing most of Anders in DA2. Can you tell us why didn't write most of Anders, as you did in Awakening? I will say that I would have put more faith in you to make Anders' story believable. You are responsible for much of Origin's material - most of Alistair and Zevran's hilarious, downright outrageously clever dialogue, and plenty more. I'm not trying to downplay the talents of the other writers on the team. Any game of this size is a combined effort. But I think Anders in DA2 is missing some of your attention.

I'm not certain what it is you assume I would have done differently. The role Anders plays in the sequel was set by myself as well as by the writing team, prior to anyone writing him. Even if I had been the one to write him, he most certainly would not have been the witty fellow you remember from Awakening... he's changed, in some very substantial ways, and if you're mourning the fact that he's different I can safely say that's very much part of the point.

A successful character provokes strong reactions. So I would say Anders was quite successful even if I didn't approve of Jennifer's writing job on him-- which I very much do. I think she did a stellar job. While there's always some trepidation in seeing someone else touch your baby, I had no reservations once I saw how she handled him.

If you felt less connected to your followers, that's too bad. There could be many reasons for that, but if the requirement to someone feeling connected is having long, rambling conversations in the party camp... I can safely say that's unlikely to happen again. I could see front-loading the characters a bit more so players are more thoroughly introduced (as it was, a lot of the character interaction ended up in Act 2 quite by accident) but I have absolutely no intention of returning to the reams of expository dialogue as a replacement for character development anytime soon.

So you read twilight series, then became an fool and made DA2's horrible storyline along with Jennifer "Hamburger" Helper.

So fire you, Laidlaw, and Helper and use your salaries to get Brent Knowles back, or at least attempt to.

Thanks.

[sarcasm] What a polite, intellectually stimulating, helpful, and amazing post you've made Mecher3k. [/sarcasm]

[tmp7704]

Zjarcal wrote...

DA2 kind of had the best of both worlds by including in depth personal quests (probably even better than the ME2 loyalty missions) and more conversations at the companions home bases. In ME2 there were maybe 3 or 4 convos per squadmate in the Normandy (including quest related stuff), while there were around 8 to 10 per companion in DA2 (also including quest stuff as well as gift convos).

My impression of DA2 "companion convos" was overwhelmingly they're incredibly brief and very much about nothing, which often rendered them quite meaningless.

"Hi Varric, how you doing bro?"
"Cool. You?"
"Cool too"
"Cool."

"Hey Varric, picked this ring on flea market. Looks like yours?"
"Oh yeah, thanks bro. Bartrand must be around, then."
"Yeah, we'll get him. No problem, anytime."

I think i've learnt more about ME2 companions from their talks than from these, in retrospect.

it's telling when you get a "quest" to "catch up with companion about events of past few years" after the time jump, and the actual update explaining what they've been doing appears in the codex.... because the conversation itself did next to nothing to actually fill you up on what's happened.

Modifié par tmp7704, 21 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[Beerfish]

tmp7704 wrote...


My impression of DA2 "companion convos" was overwhelmingly they're incredibly brief and very much about nothing, which often rendered them quite meaningless.

"Hi Varric, how you doing bro?"
"Cool. You?"
"Cool too"
"Cool."

"Hey Varric, picked this ring on flea market. Looks like yours?"
"Oh yeah, thanks bro. Bartrand must be around, then."
"Yeah, we'll get him. No problem, anytime."

I think i've learnt more about ME2 companions from their talks than from these, in retrospect.

it's telling when you get a "quest" to "catch up with companion about events of past few years" after the time jump, and the actual update explaining what they've been doing appears in the codex.... because the conversation itself did next to nothing to actually fill you up on what's happened.

I have to disagree greatly, how they developed them aside, DA2 companions were better developed perhaps because of the time passing.  There were tangible changes in how they reacted to you and each other as time went on.  I didn;t get that in DAO.  DAO was great but Morrigan and Alistair were at each other all game, even after adventuring together.  Most DAO characters had one personality, attitude and thoughts of each other and they stayed the same, in DA2 those things changed.

[tmp7704]

Beerfish wrote...

There were tangible changes in how they reacted to you and each other as time went on.  I didn;t get that in DAO.  DAO was great but Morrigan and Alistair were at each other all game, even after adventuring together.

Is there tangible change to how Anders and Fenris react to each other? Or Isabela and Merrill? Or Varric and about anyone?

I'm not sure how there can be serious complaint about DAO characters having one personality and attitude when you put DA2 cast as example of doing this less. Because if anything they seem to be more of one trick ponies with their fixations on some particular subject.

[sami jo]

Zjarcal wrote...

That those were incredibly short and in some cases didn't even involve the companions. You could hunt for Sten's sword without having him along (and if he was he only made small remarks), or kill Flemeth without Morrigan tagging along.

And in the other cases, it was just too little. Say, I loved taking Alistair to see his sister, but it was only a one time short thing. Had it been spread out through the game in multiple parts (or had it been a longer quest), I'd have liked it a LOT more and it would've been an experience I would've valued much more in terms of how much it made me connect with the character.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Origins was perfect, only that it felt like there was more opportunity to converse with and get to know your companions at your own pace.  Origins covered roughly a year of time in the middle of a crisis that your Warden was trying to resolve.  It would make no sense to stretch a personal quest to get to know a companion out.  The problem is that DA2 is pretty much nothing but companion quests and fed-ex quests.  All I am suppose to do is get to know my friends and wait for the world to blow up.  In that context, with people I am suppose to have been close to for close to a decade, potentially even in a romance with for a number of years.  I would certainly hope that the companion quests were more involved.  The problem is that they aren't nearly involved enough to give the impression of a close relationship spanning a decade.  Codex entries updating me on the last three years of someone's activities does not substitute for a conversation.  Yes, Mr. Gaider, those long expository conversations you seem to dislike so much did serve a purpose.