70 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Beerfish wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

That scene was important in relation to her character in my books. It showed that under the nicey nice exterior there was still an acceptance of certain things.

Petrice should have merely volunteered to join the Qun and she would have been protected by the Arishok right? (Just example 1001 why the Qun and the Arishok are the most hypocritical group one could ever find.)

If Petrice had joined the Qunari, she would still have been judged by the Qunari. Chances are they would've made her Qamek.

Obviously it falls to the Arishok to judge if they are worthy. I doubt sister Petrice would be though. She is a snake and I doubt that's something the Qunari respect. The elves he accepted were hunted for exacting revenge. Which is obviously just fine with the Qunari honor code.

The same code that changes as the wind blows.  Committ an act against a Qunari adn you deserve to be hunted and killed.  Committ an act against a non Qunari and it's perfectly okay even with zero investigation and zero proof.

Much like he blasts Kirkwall for having greed, murder and selfishness and there are legions of Tal Vasoth roaming around the coast stealing and murdering.  And others who have ditched the Qun to become mercenaries (But of course he would say....oh they are no longer of the Qun.)  They look like us, they are from our land, they were born from our parents.....but they are not the Qun so it is not the same.

The Qunari are phonier than a $3 dollar bill.

This.  The Arishok is a liar, a hypocrite, and a coward on top of being a mass murderer.

[Beerfish]

AlexXIV wrote...


No it's just that they see the Qun as universal law. So it is superior to any other law. Not saying that I agree, but the Qun is actually rather easy to understand. Easy solution for every problem. If it had happened in the Qun they probably do something like a duel to find out who tells the truth, so they have a clear decision in which either the accusers die or the accused. In any case, it resolves the matter.

Another great concept, lets duel to see who is right.    I agree in principle with what you are saying, the part about them seeing things as universal law, but the way they apply it is very inconsistent.

[AlexXIV]

Beerfish wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

That scene was important in relation to her character in my books. It showed that under the nicey nice exterior there was still an acceptance of certain things.

Petrice should have merely volunteered to join the Qun and she would have been protected by the Arishok right? (Just example 1001 why the Qun and the Arishok are the most hypocritical group one could ever find.)

If Petrice had joined the Qunari, she would still have been judged by the Qunari. Chances are they would've made her Qamek.

Of course that is what would happen, because they love to change their rules to suit the situation.  A couple of elves commit murder and the Arishok is only too happy to grin, say they have embraced the Qun and are now under their protection.

It is only murder in the eyes of Kirkwall law. You don't think the Arishok gives a rat's ass about Kirkwall law? They have not failed the Qun.

Correct, he cares nothing of Kirkwall law, even though he has been living there for years.  It means nothing to him and yet he complains bitterly about Kirwall doing nothing to stem their evil society.  He wants kirwall to give up their laws for and for him to be able to handle the situation and yet when it comes time to deal with Isabela he wants to handle that himself as well, despite being told that she would be dealt with via the laws of Kirkwall.

If you are saying that the Arishok expects the whole world to bow to his whims and the whims of the Qun you'd be correct.  It doesn't make it right or defenseable.

Yes. The Qun has demands. I don't think it has anything to do with justice or morale. It is a hard written code that is to be followed. The only alternative to the Qun is death. That's why everything outside of the Qun is considered inferior and unworthy.

[AlexXIV]

The Qun (to me at least) seems really only to be about making quick and easy decisions and go on with life. Or what they consider life. I don't think it is unconsistent in the eyes of the Qunari since they grow up learning the Qun and it seems to take care of all different situations. It is not really something for people who like to have an own opinion or try different things before they make a decision. It is for people who like to follow something that is ever unchanging.

[TobiTobsen]

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 21 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[AlexXIV]

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE SUBJECTS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Not more hilarious than the templars or the Viscount's guards/city guards. They all fail.

[The Angry One]

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Furthermore if you side with Varnell and Petrice, you find out that the Arishok had a whole damn squad of Qunari in the hideout and at the Chantry.
That's right, he let his envoys be killed, he let Seamus die.

Protection my ass, the Arishok is the most dishonest weasel in the entire game.

[TobiTobsen]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Furthermore if you side with Varnell and Petrice, you find out that the Arishok had a whole damn squad of Qunari in the hideout and at the Chantry.
That's right, he let his envoys be killed, he let Seamus die.

Protection my ass, the Arishok is the most dishonest weasel in the entire game.

Interesting. I was always irritated why the Sten didn't stepped out of the storage room till everything was said and done. Just another move in the plan to attack Kirkwall. I pity the son of the Viscount.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 21 avril 2011 - 04:59 .

[Avissel]

The Angry One wrote...
Furthermore if you side with Varnell and Petrice, you find out that the Arishok had a whole damn squad of Qunari in the hideout and at the Chantry.
That's right, he let his envoys be killed, he let Seamus die.

Protection my ass, the Arishok is the most dishonest weasel in the entire game.

Really? Thats actaully kind of awesome.

Nice that it wasn't a "these are the good guys, these are the bad guys" situation.

[The Angry One]

I find siding with the fanatics one of the more interesting parts of the game due to the new insights and events you get.
If only Act 3 had similar variations.

[Dean_the_Young]

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

?

Are you saying that a lack of omnipotence and omniscience is fail?

Well, by that standard everything of fail, because, hey.

[The Angry One]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

?

Are you saying that a lack of omnipotence and omniscience is fail?

Well, by that standard everything of fail, because, hey.

Did you miss the part where the Qunari were already there?
And that no matter if you kill the entire squad, the Arishok still knows exactly what was going on and exactly what your part may be in it?

[TobiTobsen]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

?

Are you saying that a lack of omnipotence and omniscience is fail?

Well, by that standard everything of fail, because, hey.

The Arishok said that the Viscount's son would be protected, knew exactly where he went to and obviously send some soldier to make sure that nothing would happen to him.

That's how I understood it. The Sten only shows up when Seamus is already dead, but it seems like it was the Arishoks plan all along. Just one more reason to declare war on Kirkwall. So it wasn't really a fail on his part.

Edit: What TAO said.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 21 avril 2011 - 07:03 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Furthermore if you side with Varnell and Petrice, you find out that the Arishok had a whole damn squad of Qunari in the hideout and at the Chantry.
That's right, he let his envoys be killed, he let Seamus die.

Protection my ass, the Arishok is the most dishonest weasel in the entire game.

You don't think he got to be Arishok by being the Quniest Qunari that ever Quned, do you? The Arishok is what you get if you let Johnny Cochran be the ruler.

[AlexXIV]

Well their sacrifice was the demand of the Qun.

Gotta love it to have an easy answer to all questions.

[DemonLord4lf]

Elthina believes that every problem that occurs is the will of the maker. To make his children stronger, and he wont send them a problem they cant overcome. In that case, she knew that Mother Petrice was going to be killed. I believe the Arishok got tired of all the filth he say in the city and allowed all this to happen so that he could say the Qun demanded him to teach the city.

[Yakko77]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Grand Cleric Elthina hardly does anything throughout the entire story, are you really surprised?

She annoyed the hell out of me.   She used her religion as an excuse to not take a real stand.  I  just wanted to slap her and quote Edmund Burke,

Nothing is so fatal to religion as indifference.  (or perhaps in her case indecision)

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I'm sure there's plenty more viable and practical wisdom to counter the Grand Clerics "reasoning"... or lack there of.

[DeathStride]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Considering Grand Cleric Elthina hardly does anything throughout the entire story, are you really surprised?

My apologies if this sentiment has already been voiced, but for me that was one of the few, possibly only, moments where I thought Elthina actually did right by her people.

Petrice got exactly the justice she deserved. In fact, she should have received it way back in Act 1- she was living on borrowed time. I was quite frustrated when the game prevented me from putting her out of others' and my misery after Shepherding Wolves...

So by not raising a hue and cry over Petrice, Elthina wisely accepted the situation with dignity. I was very pleasantly surprised at her reaction.

[Quill74Pen]

The Angry One wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

The Arishok is totally hilarious in that questline.

"WE PROTECT THOSE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE QUN"

Oh really? The Sten only killsteals Petrice from Hawke after the guy he should protect is already dead. Another fail in the long list of fails of the Qunari in Kirkwall.

Furthermore if you side with Varnell and Petrice, you find out that the Arishok had a whole damn squad of Qunari in the hideout and at the Chantry.
That's right, he let his envoys be killed, he let Seamus die.

Protection my ass, the Arishok is the most dishonest weasel in the entire game.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

By that I mean you're essentially comparing two, different universes. In one universe, you sided with the Qunari; in the other, you sided with the fanatics. Each *decision* set in motion *diverging* paths.

In the you-sided-with-the-fanatics universe, the Qunari had their suspicions all along about the fanatics and, perhaps, you to a lesser degree, and acted accordingly (ex. the full squads of troops at the hideout and the Chantry). In the you-sided-with-the-Qunari universe, they were more respectful of you and gave you a fair shake in helping them solve their problems and, thus, acted accordingly (ex. the lone Qunari who trailed you to the Chantry, only to find out when you did that Saemus was already dead).

In both universes, no matter what you do, it ends in a bloody mess. So, the diverging timelines (i.e. universes) come back together, with only the player knowing that there are multiple paths that all converge on a common destiny.

Heh. It's confusing, I know. Quantum mechanics, multiple universes with "copies" of you in most of them (in-game and out of game) and the Many World Theory, along with Schroedinger's Cat, are all confusing, but infinitely exciting.

Quill74Pen

[Rifneno]

DemonLord4lf wrote...

Elthina believes that every problem that occurs is the will of the maker.

I'm just sorry that when it was over, I never to to tell her "Guess what?  The Maker's will involves you and a gravity bomb, ****."

Although not as disappointed as the options to deal with Sebastian's temper tantrum.  I mean I've seen some bad dialogue options before, but nothing compares to that.  No option to point out that Elthina constantly preached to him (and everyone else, but mostly him because he never listened) that revenge is bad and "death is never justice."  No option to murderknife him.  No option to tell him Anders will face his punishment later but for now we need all the help we can get and maybe, just maybe, it might not be a great idea to take on the entire Templar Order of Kirkwall without a single healer.  No option to tell him that the Starkhaven throne isn't still vacant and it's unlikely their army is reading the Chantry Board in case any long lost heirs happen to want to completely raze a city.  Since all he seems to give a damn about is Elthina herself, no option to point out we don't know for certain she was even in the Chantry at the time.  Unlike the mages under her "protection," she's not a prisoner.  Just "Do not interfere, Sebastian."  Gah.  Who wrote that drivel?!  Did Hawke suffer brain damage from the shockwave of the explosion?  Why is he/she now completely incapable of any form of logical reasoning?

*deep breath*  *looks back at Chantry ruins*  Okay, blood pressure back down.  Sorry about that.