107 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex Kershaw]

Other thing that didn't make sense:

Anders is in 2 places at once. DA2's act 1 starts 1 year after Origins, and as we know that Awakenings starts 6 months after Origins (thus there is a 6 month gap in those 12 months), Origins + Awakenings must collectively take 6 months total, not even including the time it took Anders to merge with Justice. Impossible.

And for the urn of sacred ashes responses to Leliana - they can't revive dead people, and you can decapitate her.

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 22 avril 2011 - 09:36 .

[Kajan451]

SavesTheDay wrote...

I understood how Anders came back, Justice did it.

Jep, Justice walked right up to Anders Corpse, after returning to the keep days if not weeks later... since Justice was fighting the broodmother with the warden. And thought to himself... oh look that decaying, maggot festering piece of dead body noone bothered to burry up until now... is so much better than the ugly, not nearly as decayed, body i am currently having. So lets switch places, as i haven't caused enough grief yet.

And when he changed corpses he also did use his power to make Anders look like he did when he was alive, because apperently he can do that with Anders but not with Cristoph. Cristophs Corpse has to be a zombie. Anders on the other hand looks like he never died, despite him dying in defense for the keep while Justice was fighting for Amaranthine and then followed the Warden to end the Broodmother, down ancient Deeproad whatever...

But hey there he is... Anders. Talking about how he was in Kirkwall for quite some time yet, when actually the blight seems to be still going on in Ferelden, until Act2. Which miraculously means... since Awakenings plays 6 Month AFTER the blight.... Justice must have made the Corpse timetraveling as well.


Not liking Anders in the first place just makes it even more annoying to see him return. If i would like him or at least be indifferent to that dolt, i might not care as much. But of all Companions he does rank 2nd lost in my book. Right down there only to be surpassed by Zevran in the amount of annoyment.

[randName]

Anyway for me the important part about this is that by removing choices from DA:O in DA2 or DA3 they diminish everything I did in the game.

Be it when they decide to resurrect characters I helped put into the ground, or when they change stories from DA:O that I helped create - I feel that my character and its path through Thedas is ruined as nothing I did can be trusted, no epilogue that I fought to get is sacred, and all could just as well has been changed as the one thing.

So now the world I helped shaped by playing DA:O is gone.

If it had been smaller choices I wouldn't care, but once they start to fiddle with deaths and epilogues of those at the heart of the game it corrupts it all.


Obviously my approval is not important for BioWare, it's just an other sold game, but it will be one game less sold if they keep this up, and they probably will ~ so good riddance, and nothing of value was lost.

Modifié par randName, 22 avril 2011 - 11:43 .

[SavesTheDay]

Kajan451 wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

I understood how Anders came back, Justice did it.

Jep, Justice walked right up to Anders Corpse, after returning to the keep days if not weeks later... since Justice was fighting the broodmother with the warden. And thought to himself... oh look that decaying, maggot festering piece of dead body noone bothered to burry up until now... is so much better than the ugly, not nearly as decayed, body i am currently having. So lets switch places, as i haven't caused enough grief yet.

And when he changed corpses he also did use his power to make Anders look like he did when he was alive, because apperently he can do that with Anders but not with Cristoph. Cristophs Corpse has to be a zombie. Anders on the other hand looks like he never died, despite him dying in defense for the keep while Justice was fighting for Amaranthine and then followed the Warden to end the Broodmother, down ancient Deeproad whatever...

But hey there he is... Anders. Talking about how he was in Kirkwall for quite some time yet, when actually the blight seems to be still going on in Ferelden, until Act2. Which miraculously means... since Awakenings plays 6 Month AFTER the blight.... Justice must have made the Corpse timetraveling as well.


Not liking Anders in the first place just makes it even more annoying to see him return. If i would like him or at least be indifferent to that dolt, i might not care as much. But of all Companions he does rank 2nd lost in my book. Right down there only to be surpassed by Zevran in the amount of annoyment.

You know, not everyone brought Justice to fight the Mother, they could've been at the Keep together. I also don't think it would take weeks for Justice to return to the Keep after fighting the Mother, so why would Anders have rotted so much at this point?

The blight is over by the time you get to act 2, it only lasted one year and DA2 skips over that year when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. So, no time travel involved.

And it's entirely possible for a spirit to save someone from the brink of death, so even if Anders never died, he could've been very close to it. It also seems to be a reasonable explanation for why he died in some people's game and was alive in the second game.

[Kajan451]

SavesTheDay wrote...

You know, not everyone brought Justice to fight the Mother, they could've been at the Keep together.

But i did and only my story counts for me? DA2 gave me the option to import MY Story as basis for the background. If they never had given me the option to import my savegame as the background story i wouldn't have complained, because Bioware decided to make a canon story in which Anders had survived and bonded with Justice. It wouldn't be MY Story. But since i imported MY story... i expect it to be MY story and not something else.

SavesTheDay wrote...



I also don't think it would take weeks for Justice to return to the Keep after fighting the Mother, so why would Anders have rotted so much at this point?

They travel from the keep to amaranthine, fighting in Amaranthine, only to hear the Keep was attacked. I assume that to take at least 2 days, as i expect the Keep and Amaranthine to be appart by at least 20+ miles. (just judging from the map). Then we traveled down to the deeproads and the hiding place of the broodmother... we fought our way down there... and i would expect at least another day or two to get to this place, making the travel downwards at least another day... the fight... and back up... it would take at least a week. And then another couple days to walk back to the keep. So yes it might just be 2 weeks and not more, but even so... don't you think someone would have been burrying the dead within 1-2 Days? And if not... do you have any idea how fast a corpse does rot when its remaining unattented in the open?

I've seen corpses unattented for 2 days and more days. Thats not a beautiful sight.

SavesTheDay wrote...The blight is over by the time you get to act 2, it only lasted one year and DA2 skips over that year when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. So, no time travel involved.

In which case there are STILL 6 months to cover. From the end of the blight, which was the slaying of the archdemon, to Awakenings was stated to be 6 months. So even the Archdemon is dead by the time you enter Act1 and meet Anders, he still would have to wait 6 months until he would even MEET the warden and become a Warden himself.

But Anders even says he is in Kirkwall for some time, enough time to even manage to get a group of friends together who do hide him.

SavesTheDay wrote...


And it's entirely possible for a spirit to save someone from the brink of death, so even if Anders never died, he could've been very close to it. It also seems to be a reasonable explanation for why he died in some people's game and was alive in the second game.

Except that Justice stated he couldn't leave Cristophs body anymore, in Awakenings. He said he was bond to Cristoph. Oh and of course except the fact that the Battle of Amaranthine and the hunt for the broodmother most certainly didn't happen within a few hours, but more in a matter of days. And since i know Anders died defending the keep, he was dead for a couple days until Justice and the Warden returned.

[erynnar]

Kajan451 wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

You know, not everyone brought Justice to fight the Mother, they could've been at the Keep together.

But i did and only my story counts for me? DA2 gave me the option to import MY Story as basis for the background. If they never had given me the option to import my savegame as the background story i wouldn't have complained, because Bioware decided to make a canon story in which Anders had survived and bonded with Justice. It wouldn't be MY Story. But since i imported MY story... i expect it to be MY story and not something else.

SavesTheDay wrote...



I also don't think it would take weeks for Justice to return to the Keep after fighting the Mother, so why would Anders have rotted so much at this point?

They travel from the keep to amaranthine, fighting in Amaranthine, only to hear the Keep was attacked. I assume that to take at least 2 days, as i expect the Keep and Amaranthine to be appart by at least 20+ miles. (just judging from the map). Then we traveled down to the deeproads and the hiding place of the broodmother... we fought our way down there... and i would expect at least another day or two to get to this place, making the travel downwards at least another day... the fight... and back up... it would take at least a week. And then another couple days to walk back to the keep. So yes it might just be 2 weeks and not more, but even so... don't you think someone would have been burrying the dead within 1-2 Days? And if not... do you have any idea how fast a corpse does rot when its remaining unattented in the open?

I've seen corpses unattented for 2 days and more days. Thats not a beautiful sight.

SavesTheDay wrote...The blight is over by the time you get to act 2, it only lasted one year and DA2 skips over that year when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. So, no time travel involved.

In which case there are STILL 6 months to cover. From the end of the blight, which was the slaying of the archdemon, to Awakenings was stated to be 6 months. So even the Archdemon is dead by the time you enter Act1 and meet Anders, he still would have to wait 6 months until he would even MEET the warden and become a Warden himself.

But Anders even says he is in Kirkwall for some time, enough time to even manage to get a group of friends together who do hide him.

SavesTheDay wrote...


And it's entirely possible for a spirit to save someone from the brink of death, so even if Anders never died, he could've been very close to it. It also seems to be a reasonable explanation for why he died in some people's game and was alive in the second game.

Except that Justice stated he couldn't leave Cristophs body anymore, in Awakenings. He said he was bond to Cristoph. Oh and of course except the fact that the Battle of Amaranthine and the hunt for the broodmother most certainly didn't happen within a few hours, but more in a matter of days. And since i know Anders died defending the keep, he was dead for a couple days until Justice and the Warden returned.

And all of what you just stated (plus a lot more) just gives me the impression (wrong or no) that they really hated DAO and didn't just seek to take the DA universe in a new direction, but just start over and pissing on the previous story and its lore (and its fans) as they went.  I mean if DA2 had been a stand alone, it would still have been rushed, but it wouldn't make me as angry as it does with this type of reboot. And throwing us all a slight bone with some cameos including of previously the previously deceased, bullocks!

I see dead people.....

Modifié par erynnar, 23 avril 2011 - 02:53 .

[erynnar]

GAH!!! Double post! Darn buggy site! *tickles the forum*

Modifié par erynnar, 23 avril 2011 - 02:52 .

[PlumPaul93]

erynnar wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

You know, not everyone brought Justice to fight the Mother, they could've been at the Keep together.

But i did and only my story counts for me? DA2 gave me the option to import MY Story as basis for the background. If they never had given me the option to import my savegame as the background story i wouldn't have complained, because Bioware decided to make a canon story in which Anders had survived and bonded with Justice. It wouldn't be MY Story. But since i imported MY story... i expect it to be MY story and not something else.

SavesTheDay wrote...



I also don't think it would take weeks for Justice to return to the Keep after fighting the Mother, so why would Anders have rotted so much at this point?

They travel from the keep to amaranthine, fighting in Amaranthine, only to hear the Keep was attacked. I assume that to take at least 2 days, as i expect the Keep and Amaranthine to be appart by at least 20+ miles. (just judging from the map). Then we traveled down to the deeproads and the hiding place of the broodmother... we fought our way down there... and i would expect at least another day or two to get to this place, making the travel downwards at least another day... the fight... and back up... it would take at least a week. And then another couple days to walk back to the keep. So yes it might just be 2 weeks and not more, but even so... don't you think someone would have been burrying the dead within 1-2 Days? And if not... do you have any idea how fast a corpse does rot when its remaining unattented in the open?

I've seen corpses unattented for 2 days and more days. Thats not a beautiful sight.

SavesTheDay wrote...The blight is over by the time you get to act 2, it only lasted one year and DA2 skips over that year when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. So, no time travel involved.

In which case there are STILL 6 months to cover. From the end of the blight, which was the slaying of the archdemon, to Awakenings was stated to be 6 months. So even the Archdemon is dead by the time you enter Act1 and meet Anders, he still would have to wait 6 months until he would even MEET the warden and become a Warden himself.

But Anders even says he is in Kirkwall for some time, enough time to even manage to get a group of friends together who do hide him.

SavesTheDay wrote...


And it's entirely possible for a spirit to save someone from the brink of death, so even if Anders never died, he could've been very close to it. It also seems to be a reasonable explanation for why he died in some people's game and was alive in the second game.

Except that Justice stated he couldn't leave Cristophs body anymore, in Awakenings. He said he was bond to Cristoph. Oh and of course except the fact that the Battle of Amaranthine and the hunt for the broodmother most certainly didn't happen within a few hours, but more in a matter of days. And since i know Anders died defending the keep, he was dead for a couple days until Justice and the Warden returned.

And all of what you just stated (plus a lot more) just gives me the impression (wrong or no) that they really hated DAO and didn't just seek to take the DA universe in a new direction, but just start over and pissing on the previous story and its lore (and its fans) as they went.  I mean if DA2 had been a stand alone, it would still have been rushed, but it wouldn't make me as angry as it does with this type of reboot. And throwing us all a slight bone with some cameos including of previously the previously deceased, bullocks!

I see dead people.....

Well I don't know about that. I just think they were trying to use as many shortcuts as possible and thought that we wouldn't care about all the mistakes they made (regarding importing decisions and characters returning even though they shouldn't).

[erynnar]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...

SavesTheDay wrote...

You know, not everyone brought Justice to fight the Mother, they could've been at the Keep together.

But i did and only my story counts for me? DA2 gave me the option to import MY Story as basis for the background. If they never had given me the option to import my savegame as the background story i wouldn't have complained, because Bioware decided to make a canon story in which Anders had survived and bonded with Justice. It wouldn't be MY Story. But since i imported MY story... i expect it to be MY story and not something else.

SavesTheDay wrote...



I also don't think it would take weeks for Justice to return to the Keep after fighting the Mother, so why would Anders have rotted so much at this point?

They travel from the keep to amaranthine, fighting in Amaranthine, only to hear the Keep was attacked. I assume that to take at least 2 days, as i expect the Keep and Amaranthine to be appart by at least 20+ miles. (just judging from the map). Then we traveled down to the deeproads and the hiding place of the broodmother... we fought our way down there... and i would expect at least another day or two to get to this place, making the travel downwards at least another day... the fight... and back up... it would take at least a week. And then another couple days to walk back to the keep. So yes it might just be 2 weeks and not more, but even so... don't you think someone would have been burrying the dead within 1-2 Days? And if not... do you have any idea how fast a corpse does rot when its remaining unattented in the open?

I've seen corpses unattented for 2 days and more days. Thats not a beautiful sight.

SavesTheDay wrote...The blight is over by the time you get to act 2, it only lasted one year and DA2 skips over that year when Hawke gets to Kirkwall. So, no time travel involved.

In which case there are STILL 6 months to cover. From the end of the blight, which was the slaying of the archdemon, to Awakenings was stated to be 6 months. So even the Archdemon is dead by the time you enter Act1 and meet Anders, he still would have to wait 6 months until he would even MEET the warden and become a Warden himself.

But Anders even says he is in Kirkwall for some time, enough time to even manage to get a group of friends together who do hide him.

SavesTheDay wrote...


And it's entirely possible for a spirit to save someone from the brink of death, so even if Anders never died, he could've been very close to it. It also seems to be a reasonable explanation for why he died in some people's game and was alive in the second game.

Except that Justice stated he couldn't leave Cristophs body anymore, in Awakenings. He said he was bond to Cristoph. Oh and of course except the fact that the Battle of Amaranthine and the hunt for the broodmother most certainly didn't happen within a few hours, but more in a matter of days. And since i know Anders died defending the keep, he was dead for a couple days until Justice and the Warden returned.

And all of what you just stated (plus a lot more) just gives me the impression (wrong or no) that they really hated DAO and didn't just seek to take the DA universe in a new direction, but just start over and pissing on the previous story and its lore (and its fans) as they went.  I mean if DA2 had been a stand alone, it would still have been rushed, but it wouldn't make me as angry as it does with this type of reboot. And throwing us all a slight bone with some cameos including of previously the previously deceased, bullocks!

I see dead people.....

Well I don't know about that. I just think they were trying to use as many shortcuts as possible and thought that we wouldn't care about all the mistakes they made (regarding importing decisions and characters returning even though they shouldn't).

 
And more likely this...thanks for talking me out of the frustration tree. Seriously, having fun with my mage though. I think my frustration stems from the bipolar disorder I get from DA2. I don't know what I am supposed to be getting from it.  I keep getting thrown out of the story by different things (dialogue not what I intended, the time lapses, waves of enemies, etc, etc...) but I want to be immersed in it and love it.  GAH!!!!  See? Biopolar disorder I tells ya, the game is giving it to me! :lol:

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Yes, fall on a dusty floor.

She fell on a dusty floor with sacred ashes... and got revived. classic.

Ashes that we never saw... but she did. And apparently there were enough of them for her to get revived.

Also, I'm pretty sure there are rooms where the only ashes you will find are in the actual urn itself. Just a quick note... you know some people like to keep the resting place of the dead clean and all that.

I never said she saw a thing. And exactly how many housekeepers did you see there? How did you survive walking naked through a fire in that same room?

Either the room itself has magical properties, or it was all in your head.

Then be clear. I have no masochistic desire to try and guess your argument.

Regardless, whether she rolls over a dusty spot full of ashes on purpose or not doesn't change a thing. Your example, from what I understood so far ( because you haven't been clear about your argument ), sounds very unlikely and is harmful to suspension of disbelief.

On top of it all, it sounds like nothing more than deus ex machina to try and fill the gap between the retcon from Origins to DA 2 and rap things up quickly.

I'm positive that it's not something we'll see, but the thought of anyone finding it an acceptable explanation is... harrowing.

[Cutlass Jack]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Then be clear. I have no masochistic desire to try and guess your argument.

Sure thing. You entered a temple to get to the urn, yes? And on that route you ran into a centuries old guardian who hasn't aged and can read the doubts in your heart. You met Ghosts from Andraste's past. You saw Someone from your past who may or may not be dead. Fought duplicates of your team. And walked naked through fire without getting burned. It required suspension of disbelief just to get down the hallway.

That's alot of magic permiated through that building. Which was either completely real or (more likely) an illusion of some sort. With me so far?

Now at the end of all that is a cup full of ashes that heal people of all wounds. So the question in my mind is: Are these really Andraste's Ashes, and if so, are they really so powerful that their presence infused the rest of the temple with magic? Or was the location they were in so magical that they infused the Ashes with power after centuries of exposure?

Either way, the power of the ashes and the temple are somehow connected. Power that was shown to both heal the sick and to make you see very real seeming things that weren't really there. Like your companions. Either one of these two things could account for her survival. So I don't see how you'd have to suspend any disbelief you hadn't already done in Origins.

It could also be something else entirely. Though it is my hope, whatever explanation they do give, that it leaves some room for doubt that the Maker had really anything to do with it. I think its part of the fun of her character that you never really know if she's crazy or not.

[SkittlesKat96]

Why are people arguing against me lol...I never said that 'reviving' two characters was a good thing I just said that it's not as bad as some people think it is (some people think that more characters were revived)

I just wanted to point out the import glitches (of which are also not good.)

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Then be clear. I have no masochistic desire to try and guess your argument.

Sure thing. You entered a temple to get to the urn, yes? And on that route you ran into a centuries old guardian who hasn't aged and can read the doubts in your heart. You met Ghosts from Andraste's past. You saw Someone from your past who may or may not be dead. Fought duplicates of your team. And walked naked through fire without getting burned. It required suspension of disbelief just to get down the hallway.

That's alot of magic permiated through that building. Which was either completely real or (more likely) an illusion of some sort. With me so far?

Now at the end of all that is a cup full of ashes that heal people of all wounds. So the question in my mind is: Are these really Andraste's Ashes, and if so, are they really so powerful that their presence infused the rest of the temple with magic? Or was the location they were in so magical that they infused the Ashes with power after centuries of exposure?

Either way, the power of the ashes and the temple are somehow connected. Power that was shown to both heal the sick and to make you see very real seeming things that weren't really there. Like your companions. Either one of these two things could account for her survival. So I don't see how you'd have to suspend any disbelief you hadn't already done in Origins.

To be clear, I don't question/care whether the place is magical or not; my point rests on how (un)likely it would appear this would work in Leliana's favour. I understand the need for developers to take the story out of the player's hands sometimes ( to direct them in a certain way ), but I am positive that a one-man-army, massive killer such as the Warden would be capable of clinically concluding that something is dead. Not that being a massive killer would be any close to being a requirement for making sure something is dead.

By which I mean, he would use some common sense! You know, common sense? Fairly sure this includes not letting the religious fanatic bard in a room full of healing magic unless he was 100% sure she was dead.

In response to the illusion argument: I think if that were to happen, it would go against the ambiguity regarding religious miracles BioWare has established.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 24 avril 2011 - 09:32 .

[Urazz]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

[Cutlass Jack]

Urazz wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

Yup this. People get too hung up on silly points like that. I decapitated Zevran once when he tried to assassinate me. It still didn't stop him from talking my damn ear off in the following scene.

[Huntress]

In none of my games this characters died, so should my characters see them dead now? is the game made to catter the players that have killed this NPC?

What happen to my dalishrogue and Lily? should my warden wonder the world alone because someone in another game killed lily?
Should every new DA game remove any companion at any giving time, if someone in another game killed any of this companions?

Let me know, from now on I'll kill any companion if is going to be removed from somealso game.<_<

Modifié par Huntress, 24 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

Yup this. People get too hung up on silly points like that. I decapitated Zevran once when he tried to assassinate me. It still didn't stop him from talking my damn ear off in the following scene.

Okay that is a random thing and one scene. I can suspend my disbelief for one scene owing to the automatic generator for moves. I suppose I take this kind of thing so seriously is because I write fiction. I don't write a story where someone is killed, the ending has them dead only to have them magically pop up in book 2 or 3.  That is shoddy story tellling. 

BioWare has always been about the story, I know that's hard to see in DA2, but they were.  Now I have a story where two people were supposed to be dead, coming back? Cave or no friggin' cave, ashes or no ashes (like I said Jack while creative, it stretches belief like taffy on a taffy puller, sorry) it is ****** poor story telling. And I find that offensive. BioWare writers have a rep, and it wasn't that of being five year olds with imaginations  that can skip the bounds of common sense and logic.

It may be 'fiction' but even fiction needs to have some logic to it. It also offends me, because this shows that DAO was the game we should all forget about and just hug the bright shiny new one to our chests and pretend the first never happened. Um, yeah...not going to happen. Either make something like DA2 with no cameos and its own game or make it a true sequel and stop this bipolar crap.

[Huntress]

erynnar wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

Yup this. People get too hung up on silly points like that. I decapitated Zevran once when he tried to assassinate me. It still didn't stop him from talking my damn ear off in the following scene.

Okay that is a random thing and one scene. I can suspend my disbelief for one scene owing to the automatic generator for moves. I suppose I take this kind of thing so seriously is because I write fiction. I don't write a story where someone is killed, the ending has them dead only to have them magically pop up in book 2 or 3.  That is shoddy story tellling. 

BioWare has always been about the story, I know that's hard to see in DA2, but they were.  Now I have a story where two people were supposed to be dead, coming back? Cave or no friggin' cave, ashes or no ashes (like I said Jack while creative, it stretches belief like taffy on a taffy puller, sorry) it is ****** poor story telling. And I find that offensive. BioWare writers have a rep, and it wasn't that of being five year olds with imaginations  that can skip the bounds of common sense and logic.

It may be 'fiction' but even fiction needs to have some logic to it. It also offends me, because this shows that DAO was the game we should all forget about and just hug the bright shiny new one to our chests and pretend the first never happened. Um, yeah...not going to happen. Either make something like DA2 with no cameos and its own game or make it a true sequel and stop this bipolar crap.

I don't think the game was made just for players like you, other people have romances with this companions, will  they now get a corpse just to please you and make sense in your little world? or should a codex appear in my/anyone games saying: zev/lily died in someone also game OPS!, please press ESC and try again?  what the heck is going on, in your head??

The game wasn't made to fit just your ends, you aren't the only one PLAYING the games, cameos should stay and who ever killed this companions should be forced eat peas all week!

[JabbaDaHutt30]

erynnar wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

Yup this. People get too hung up on silly points like that. I decapitated Zevran once when he tried to assassinate me. It still didn't stop him from talking my damn ear off in the following scene.

Okay that is a random thing and one scene. I can suspend my disbelief for one scene owing to the automatic generator for moves. I suppose I take this kind of thing so seriously is because I write fiction. I don't write a story where someone is killed, the ending has them dead only to have them magically pop up in book 2 or 3.  That is shoddy story tellling. 

BioWare has always been about the story, I know that's hard to see in DA2, but they were.  Now I have a story where two people were supposed to be dead, coming back? Cave or no friggin' cave, ashes or no ashes (like I said Jack while creative, it stretches belief like taffy on a taffy puller, sorry) it is ****** poor story telling. And I find that offensive. BioWare writers have a rep, and it wasn't that of being five year olds with imaginations  that can skip the bounds of common sense and logic.

It may be 'fiction' but even fiction needs to have some logic to it. It also offends me, because this shows that DAO was the game we should all forget about and just hug the bright shiny new one to our chests and pretend the first never happened. Um, yeah...not going to happen. Either make something like DA2 with no cameos and its own game or make it a true sequel and stop this bipolar crap.

Agreed.

When I saw the video of Anders going " just as planned. : D" to Nathaniel in DA 2, I probably made an Angry Video Game Nerd facial expression.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Huntress wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Urazz wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

As for Leliana dying in a cave full of healing ashes/lyrium radiation, I don't buy it. You can't heal from a severed head, walking bomb, or a fireball. Leliana always survived in my playthroughs, so it's not as big of a deal with me. I'm more concerned with Bioware not respecting the choices people made in Origins and retconning whatever they want.

One that is one of the few in game randomly picked execution moves.  If you got a problem with that then blame bioware for having randomized execution moves in DAO.

Yup this. People get too hung up on silly points like that. I decapitated Zevran once when he tried to assassinate me. It still didn't stop him from talking my damn ear off in the following scene.

Okay that is a random thing and one scene. I can suspend my disbelief for one scene owing to the automatic generator for moves. I suppose I take this kind of thing so seriously is because I write fiction. I don't write a story where someone is killed, the ending has them dead only to have them magically pop up in book 2 or 3.  That is shoddy story tellling. 

BioWare has always been about the story, I know that's hard to see in DA2, but they were.  Now I have a story where two people were supposed to be dead, coming back? Cave or no friggin' cave, ashes or no ashes (like I said Jack while creative, it stretches belief like taffy on a taffy puller, sorry) it is ****** poor story telling. And I find that offensive. BioWare writers have a rep, and it wasn't that of being five year olds with imaginations  that can skip the bounds of common sense and logic.

It may be 'fiction' but even fiction needs to have some logic to it. It also offends me, because this shows that DAO was the game we should all forget about and just hug the bright shiny new one to our chests and pretend the first never happened. Um, yeah...not going to happen. Either make something like DA2 with no cameos and its own game or make it a true sequel and stop this bipolar crap.

I don't think the game was made just for players like you, other people have romances with this companions, will  they now get a corpse just to please you and make sense in your little world? or should a codex appear in my/anyone games saying: zev/lily died in someone also game OPS!, please press ESC and try again?  what the heck is going on, in your head??

The game wasn't made to fit just your ends, you aren't the only one PLAYING the games, cameos should stay and who ever killed this companions should be forced eat peas all week!

Straw man/Hypocrisy = connected now in Dragon Age 2?

[Huntress]

"Straw man/Hypocrisy = connected now in Dragon Age 2?"

It work for everyone QQuing about it!
Everyone should be forced to have a living warden, everyone should be forced to run away with Lily just to please me.. yes I am more important and I deserver satisfaction.

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...

Okay that is a random thing and one scene. I can suspend my disbelief for one scene owing to the automatic generator for moves. I suppose I take this kind of thing so seriously is because I write fiction. I don't write a story where someone is killed, the ending has them dead only to have them magically pop up in book 2 or 3.  That is shoddy story tellling. 

BioWare has always been about the story, I know that's hard to see in DA2, but they were.  Now I have a story where two people were supposed to be dead, coming back? Cave or no friggin' cave, ashes or no ashes (like I said Jack while creative, it stretches belief like taffy on a taffy puller, sorry) it is ****** poor story telling. And I find that offensive. BioWare writers have a rep, and it wasn't that of being five year olds with imaginations  that can skip the bounds of common sense and logic.

It may be 'fiction' but even fiction needs to have some logic to it. It also offends me, because this shows that DAO was the game we should all forget about and just hug the bright shiny new one to our chests and pretend the first never happened. Um, yeah...not going to happen. Either make something like DA2 with no cameos and its own game or make it a true sequel and stop this bipolar crap.

You know I'm your fan, but I think sometimes people are just looking to be offended at the oddest parts.. Again, you walk into this place, talk to an immortal man who knows your deepest secrets, fight dopplegangers of your party, speak to a loved one you think you failed, walk through fire (naked) without burning...and yet the notion that the scene at the urn could be yet another illusion...thats somehow abandoning common sense. Personally I thought that train left the station long before then.


If we were the types whom logic and common sense mattered to, it seems unlikely we'd even bring Leliana along if we intended to destroy the ashes. Which is an act already lacking in common sense. (except from a gaming point of view, not an RP one)

[Shacary]

I didnt kil Leli or Zev, but I have heard of those whom did kill her in the camp away from the ashes... mb it rained ashes on her corpse?
I have to agree I liked that my in gmae choices made a difference, and evreyone elses choices mattered in their games, and OUR sequals. Im not found of those silly horror movie excuses for undead draculas/jason etc. there is a reason they are called B movies. I thought BW was top notched not B......

[TheHawkeWhoFlies]

Shacary wrote...

I didnt kil Leli or Zev, but I have heard of those whom did kill her in the camp away from the ashes... mb it rained ashes on her corpse?
I have to agree I liked that my in gmae choices made a difference, and evreyone elses choices mattered in their games, and OUR sequals. Im not found of those silly horror movie excuses for undead draculas/jason etc. there is a reason they are called B movies. I thought BW was top notched not B......

I agree with this. I never chose to defile the ashes in any of my playthroughs (only did once or twice to see what would happen and then reloaded) and Leliana is my favorite LI option, but the fact that our choices may not end up making any difference whatsoever is worrying. At the very least, they could've gone the Mass Effect route; when Wrex died, he stayed dead, but they made up somebody else (Wreav) to fill in his ME2 role. Sure, it only meant a few different lines of dialogue, but at least Wrex's death was acknowledged. Hell, they even sort of did this with other cameos (Warden-Alistair taking Stroud's place during the Qunari invasion), why not Leliana?

I'm glad Leliana's returning, but having things we did amount to nothing bugs me. But who knows? Maybe BW has it covered somehow in a way we can't grasp at this point. I guess only time will tell. Also, I like your thinking Jack; I don't agree, but it does have a degree of plausibility to it 

[Inzhuna]

Anders was not brought back from the dead, neither through Justice or any other means. You never see his body in Awakening, you only read the epilogue, and in DAII you learn that what they thought was his corpse was NOT him. Yes, maybe it's a handwave but they have not resurrected him.