16 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Rieder]

So I like to play a wizard and have always played with the "normal" setting, where all the area spells don't affect your party.  As soon as I noticed that there was a hardcore setting which made the spells do what they are supposed to, I always felt a little cheap everytime I would cast a fireball among all my meleeing companions.  So I just switched to hardcore rules.  It really changes the game alot.  Spells that used to be devestating to ranks of enemies (stinking cloud, grease) are much trickier to use.  It really takes fair chunk of power away from the wizard, especially at lower levels. 

I also learned the mortal folly of casting Evard's Black Tentacles too close to onesself.... it wasn't pretty.

[kevL]

M. Rieder wrote...

I also learned the mortal folly of casting Evard's Black Tentacles too close to onesself.... it wasn't pretty.

Lol, hardcore all the way

I've just discovered EBT recently. have to slip the leash onto Animal Companions fast like!

As to AoE's: you'll soon figure out which spells are safe to cast and how to precision target .. uhm, some advice, don't trust the spell descriptions too much, M.

or the spell targetting circles

[Clyordes]

Makes Magic Missile & Acid arrow a lot more attractive, eh?
I've found that Grease just turns a whole melee into a Keystone Kops scene - why is it that the guys at the front always have really bad reflex saves?

And Sleep & Colour spray? - things can go very wrong, very quickly if the wrong people fail their saves.

All the same - I too feel wrong if its not on hardcore now - feels like cheating after years of playing P&P.

For a moment there I thought you were still on Reptile God - but Everard's Black Tentacles? - I don't remember that being in there. Have you finished it already?

Cly.

[M. Rieder]

@Cly

I cast Evard's Black Tentacles while playtesting The Wizard's Apprentice 2. I haven't tackled Against the Cult of the Reptile God in hardcore mode. Its going to get hairy quick because I was leaning heavily on grease and sleep. Grease makes the game like a three stooges movie. I keep waiting to hear the clown car carnival music to start playing as everyone fails their saving throw and slides all over the place!

@KevL

Yeah, the targeting circles on Ice storm and evard's black tentacles are very misleading. My 18-th level wizard succumbed to his own empowererd black tentacle spell in about 3 rounds! Fortunately it was while I was debugging and not actually playing.

[Clyordes]

Yep - its almost a shame the music can't change when it all goes a bit wrong from dramatic to something more 'suitable'!

Good luck if you do try reptile god on hardcore (can you change half way via the game settings? - I'm presuming so). Otherwise, as soon as Pale updates the Reptile God page, the new version incorporating the party editor will be up - and you can have your own private army - if you want to take everyone who's available - 10 I think is the effective maximum when I tried it earlier, + summoned creatures etc. I'm presuming. Just like a proper old time P&P adventure from back in my university days with nearly a dozen people round the table all trying to do their own thing(ah,,,,,,, breaks into rosey eyed reminiscence).

Cly.

[M. Rieder]

We'll see. I just hit 2nd level when I killed the priest (he almost got me, though! Tough guy that one!). I think that with the second level spells and characters I should fare just fine.

[The Fred]

The game defaults to "normal" iirc, and that's how I've always played it... however, being a "veteran" of BG which defaulted to hardcore AoE spells, etc, I've always felt a little cheap myself - though I've felt it was more the game's fault than mine. Well, I recently switched to hardcore too, though the AI seems to be doing a pretty poor job of not Lightning Bolting my whole party with my wizards.

Incidentally, Evard's is a win button in many battles, at least when you can stand in the middle of it under normal rules. I guess the hardcore rules make it more balanced, since it's powerful but can easily backfire on you.

[M. Rieder]

True True. Evard's Tentacles have brought down legions of foes, but they are very dangerous in hardcore rules. I'm thinking my melee characters will have to start using bows more often to kill the foes disabled by spells, not sure though. It will take experimentation.

[MasterChanger]

I've played under hardcore rules for a long time, since sometime back on some NWN1 PWs. There, I developed a pretty finely-tuned sense of the exact radius of a fireball spell--with no targeting circle to help out!

The targeting circles in NWN2 are handy, but unfortunately they're only suggestions, really. The shape of the targeting UI is determined by the row of spelltarget.2da, which does not have nearly as many entries as it should (and it can't be added to). The actual radius of the spell is determined in the impact script. I haven't done a breakdown of whether the radius constants in nwscript match the sizes in spelltarget.2da, but at best it's approximate.

Cones are the worst offenders. While playing The Wizard's Apprentice #1 I frequently tried to use Burning Hands and Color Spray. If two enemies (even small goblins) were in melee range of my character, I couldn't hit them both with either spell because the angle of the cone was too small. On the flip side, if I was at right angles to an ally fighting an enemy, it was almost impossible to hit the enemy and not the ally.

As you point out, the AI doesn't work nearly as well where spells are concerned under hardcore rules. I mind a little less because I never allow my companions to cast spells on their own. Not only is it annoying when they waste spells or use the wrong spell, but it takes some of the fun out for me.

What I find really annoying is just how hard it is to distinguish between commanding your companions to do nothing at all and getting them to attack enemies within reach. And unfortunately neither enemies nor companions will move if they're standing in an Area of Effect. I tracked a bit of code down that could check for AoEs, but IIRC they only end up moving if it's a zone of Silence and they're a spellcaster. Adding a bit of code to make companions or enemies flee AoEs would not be that difficult.

To really use AoEs successfully against enemies, it's almost required that you take advantage of narrow hallways and tunnels. This was some of why I found the open-field charges on the Overland Map in SoZ so stupid.

[M. Rieder]

MasterChanger wrote...
I mind a little less because I never allow my companions to cast spells on their own. Not only is it annoying when they waste spells or use the wrong spell, but it takes some of the fun out for me.

I would sooner let my two year old play with a blowtorch then let my companions manage their own spellcasting.  When I play, my companions have to raise their hand if they even want to go to the bathroom.  Usually I say to hold it.

To really use AoEs successfully against enemies, it's almost required that you take advantage of narrow hallways and tunnels. This was some of why I found the open-field charges on the Overland Map in SoZ so stupid.

I was able to solo SOZ as a wizard, but that was not on hardcore.  I doubt I would find it so easy playing hardcore because one of my main strategies was to sit in the midst of evard's tentacles and watch the carnage unfold.  Maybe if there was some way to gain immunity to the spell, globe of invulnerabilty, for example.  Of course if it wears out and you haven't left the area, it's curtains for you!

[manageri]

The Fred wrote...

Well, I recently switched to hardcore too, though the AI seems to be doing a pretty poor job of not Lightning Bolting my whole party with my wizards.

I suggest trying puppet mode. Not having retarded companions charging into the cloud of bewilderment etc. has significantly reduced how often I feel like smashing the keyboard.

[The Fred]

MasterChanger wrote...
Adding a bit of code to make companions or enemies flee AoEs would not be that difficult.

Shameless plug .

[MasterChanger]

The Fred wrote...

MasterChanger wrote...
Adding a bit of code to make companions or enemies flee AoEs would not be that difficult.

Shameless plug .

Interesting idea, The Fred, thanks. I personally care more about good AI on the part of enemies than companions, since I figure you can manually control companions in a pinch.

Interesting tool anyway. 

[The Fred]

Yeah, that's true, but I had the idea after reading some complaints over here about the AI... I think Arkalzeth wanted a Barbarian/Warlock companion who'd buff with invocations before raging in melee, and this would allow you to do sometihng like that. It's not terribly sophisticated, but it could help give companions specific behaviour.

[Arkalezth]

Yes, it was me, good memory. The Barbarian part was optional, it could work for melee Warlocks in general. My desired tactic was Flee the Scene and melee.

Finally I ended that module before your add-on was released, and I haven't played a similar character (AI controlled) since then, but I have to try it, thanks for making it.

[Haplose]

Well was there ever any other difficulty setting then Hardcore? Friendly fire is crucial for any degree of realism or immersion, IMVHO.
And yeah, I'm like Rieder, my casters never cast anything without me explicitly saying them to do so.
And semi-difficult battles I tend to do in semi turn based mode of Tony'K's mod (meaning I oversee every breath of my characters).

[The Fred]

Thank goodness for the pause button, that's all I can say. ;-)