167 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

I mean, why do the Qunari want it? Why is (what I assume to be) the original manuscript so important to them? Do they not have copies in Par Vollen?
 
I ask because, based largely on Sten’s attitude towards the Urn of Sacred Ashes in DAO, I got the distinct impression that the Qunari were a militantly secular, even atheistic, people, not believing in icons or relics.
 
Is my perception of the Qunari off? Are the Qunari simply hypocrites? Or was the Tome an excuse to remain in Kirkwall? Some combination thereof?
 
(for the thread title, apologies to Jerry Seinfeld)

[Bmeszaros]

General User wrote...

I mean, why do the Qunari want it? Why is (what I assume to be) the original manuscript so important to them? Do they not have copies in Par Vollen?
 
I ask because, based largely on Sten’s attitude towards the Urn of Sacred Ashes in DAO, I got the distinct impression that the Qunari were a militantly secular, even atheistic, people, not believing in icons or relics.
 
Is my perception of the Qunari off? Are the Qunari simply hypocrites? Or was the Tome an excuse to remain in Kirkwall? Some combination thereof?
 
(for the thread title, apologies to Jerry Seinfeld)

As far as the Sten connection from the first game, remember the attitude that the Arishok has in the second.... Qunari don't really acknowledge the the valued existance of anything outside of the Qun, they really only tolerate it as the situation warrants....

Basically, The Tome of Koslun is probably just a practice in Ignorance....

[JesterPsychotica]

Isabela stealing the Tome of Koslun to the Qunari would be like someone stealing the Codex Sinaiticus to the Christians.

[Avissel]

It's the writings Their entire society is based on.

That's like asking why America keeps the constitution in a museum instead of throwing it away because "it's just old paper"

[The Angry One]

The first holy passage of the Tome of Koslun:

See Qunari.
See Qunari run.
Run, Qunari, run!

The second holy passage in the Tome of Cousland Koslun:

A is for Arvaraad
B is for Bas
C is for Can't find the Tome of Koslun

[JesterPsychotica]

Avissel wrote...

It's the writings Their entire society is based on.

That's like asking why America keeps the constitution in a museum instead of throwing it away because "it's just old paper"

This is probably a more accurate and more relatable comparison.

[Nepenthe87]

Avissel wrote...

It's the writings Their entire society is based on.

That's like asking why America keeps the constitution in a museum instead of throwing it away because "it's just old paper"

I was gonna say this exact thing. people wouldnt be very happy if someone just up and stole the U.S.'s constituion, even though there are many copies of it.

[TobiTobsen]

Sten didn't care for the Urn because it wasn't important to the Qun.
But the Tome, its the Tome of Koslun! How awesome is that? The Foundation of the Qun! Don't you see how much more important it is compared to that little bit of ash?

Thats my interpretation at least.

[Rifneno]

JesterPsychotica wrote...

Isabela stealing the Tome of Koslun to the Qunari would be like someone stealing the Codex Sinaiticus to the Christians.

So you're saying it probably shouldn't have wound up in my chamberpot?  Hmm.

Koslun is an anagram for "No Sulk."  I suggest we give the tome to Fenris.  Or Anders.

[ajm317]

General User wrote...

I mean, why do the Qunari want it? Why is (what I assume to be) the original manuscript so important to them? Do they not have copies in Par Vollen?
 
I ask because, based largely on Sten’s attitude towards the Urn of Sacred Ashes in DAO, I got the distinct impression that the Qunari were a militantly secular, even atheistic, people, not believing in icons or relics.
 
Is my perception of the Qunari off? Are the Qunari simply hypocrites? Or was the Tome an excuse to remain in Kirkwall? Some combination thereof?
 
(for the thread title, apologies to Jerry Seinfeld)

The Tome is an artifact of immense cultural and historical significance to the Qunari.  Asking why the Qunari would value it despite being atheists is like asking why the secular U.S. government doesn't throw the original Constitution in the trash bin rather than keeping it in an expensive temperature controlled vault.

[The Angry One]

You're surprised that the Qunari operate with double standards?
It's made very clear that nothing in Qunari culture extends to respect for other people's cultures and beliefs.
Qunari are the forum trolls of Thedas.

[Avissel]

ajm317 wrote...

The Tome is an artifact of immense cultural and historical significance to the Qunari.  Asking why the Qunari would value it despite being atheists is like asking why the secular U.S. government doesn't throw the original Constitution in the trash bin rather than keeping it in an expensive temperature controlled vault.

This statment seems familair..perhaps I have seen it before.

The Angry One wrote...

You're surprised that the Qunari
operate with double standards?
It's made very clear that nothing in
Qunari culture extends to respect for other people's cultures and
beliefs.
Qunari are the forum trolls of Thedas.

Well thats hardly fair to say.
You think The average believer of the maker would care about The Tome of Kuslan? Importance is relative.

Modifié par Avissel, 21 avril 2011 - 05:15 .

[ajm317]

Avissel wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

The Tome is an artifact of immense cultural and historical significance to the Qunari.  Asking why the Qunari would value it despite being atheists is like asking why the secular U.S. government doesn't throw the original Constitution in the trash bin rather than keeping it in an expensive temperature controlled vault.

This statment seems familair..perhaps I have seen it before.

Are you complaining because I am agreeing with you?  If so I have now seen everything on the internet.

[General User]

JesterPsychotica wrote...

Isabela stealing the Tome of Koslun to the Qunari would be like someone stealing the Codex Sinaiticus to the Christians.

Now see, that’s what I mean! I’ve been a Christian for years and I had to Google Codex Sinaiticus because I had never heard of it. 

Now the sect of Christianity I belong to doesn’t believe in relics and such, to us they are items of historical interest, nothing more or less.  Certainly not worth fighting a war over! I got the impression that the Qunari took a similar line of thought.

[Maria Caliban]

Why it took Isabela 3 years to find.
"Have you seen this book? It's called the Tome of Cousland... no that's not right. Kepler? Kuvan? Oh, forget it. Do you have any books with naked pictures in them?"

[The Angry One]

Avissel wrote...

Well thats hardly fair to say.
You think The average believer of the maker would care about The Tome of Kuslan? Importance is relative.

The Orlesians preserved it all this time.
Even if it was just as a bargaining chip, the point is they were aware of it's importance to somebody.
It the Arishok came across the Urn he'd most likely empty it and use it as a privvy.

[Avissel]

ajm317 wrote...

Are you complaining because I am agreeing with you?  If so I have now seen everything on the internet.

I was making a joke, the point of which was that we wrote almost the exact same sentence.

Conclusions, let us not jump to them.

[ajm317]

The Angry One wrote...

Avissel wrote...

Well thats hardly fair to say.
You think The average believer of the maker would care about The Tome of Kuslan? Importance is relative.

The Orlesians preserved it all this time.
Even if it was just as a bargaining chip, the point is they were aware of it's importance to somebody.
It the Arishok came across the Urn he'd most likely empty it and use it as a privvy.

The Arishok is quite practical.  If he thought the Urn could be used as a bargaining chip he would probably do so.  "The Qunari waste nothing" as Fenris says.

Avissel wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

Are you complaining because I am agreeing with you?  If so I have now seen everything on the internet.

I was making a joke, the point of which was that we wrote almost the exact same sentence.

Conclusions, let us not jump to them.

Asking for clarification isn't jumping to conclusions.

Modifié par ajm317, 21 avril 2011 - 05:20 .

[Rifneno]

The Angry One wrote...

You're surprised that the Qunari operate with double standards?
It's made very clear that nothing in Qunari culture extends to respect for other people's cultures and beliefs.
Qunari are the forum trolls of Thedas.

I've never seen a forum troll as bad as the qunari.  Well, maybe on totally unmoderated Usenet.  But nowadays all Usenet is for is mass piracy and porn.  ...  What were we talking about?

[General User]

Avissel wrote...

It's the writings Their entire society is based on.

That's like asking why America keeps the constitution in a museum instead of throwing it away because "it's just old paper"

That is a real good analogy. And your right, if someone (especially someone foreign) did steal the original US Constitution (or the Brits with the Crown Jewels), I think the Americans probably would kill to get it back. 
 
Whether they would go to war or not, who’s to say? But one thing is for certain. In that scenario, the Americans damn sure would make no attempt to disguise or hide who they were after and why.

[TobiTobsen]

ajm317 wrote...

The Arishok is quite practical.  If he thought the Urn could be used as a bargaining chip he would probably do so.  "The Qunari waste nothing" as Fenris says.

The reaction of the only Qunari that ever saw the Urn was this sentence:

"Congratulations. You've found your pot of holy dirt"

I don't think that the Urn would have any worth for them. And Qunari don't bargain. They do what the Qun demands of them. Honoring stupid stuff like bargains with humans is not demanded. Just listen to Sten when he talks about the peace treaty. They honor it because it fits them, not because they feel they're bound to it.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 21 avril 2011 - 05:27 .

[Avissel]

General User wrote...

That is a real good analogy. And your right, if someone (especially someone foreign) did steal the original US Constitution (or the Brits with the Crown Jewels), I think the Americans probably would kill to get it back. 
 
Whether they would go to war or not, who’s to say? But one thing is for certain. In that scenario, the Americans damn sure would make no attempt to disguise or hide who they were after and why.

Well, I think the way the Qunari look at is that there are two kinds of people. Qunari and scum, you don't explain yourself to scum.

The Qunari are kind of dicks.

[The Angry One]

TobiTobsen wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

The Arishok is quite practical.  If he thought the Urn could be used as a bargaining chip he would probably do so.  "The Qunari waste nothing" as Fenris says.

The reaction of the only Qunari that ever saw the Urn was this sentence:

"Congratulations. You've found your pot of holy dirt"

I don't think that the Urn would have any worth for them. And Qunari don't bargain. They do what the Qun demands of them. Honoring stupid stuff like bargains with humans is not demanded. Just listen to Sten when he talks about the peace treaty. They honor it because it fits them, not because they feel they're bound to it.

Yep, Qunari don't negociate with bas.
I suspect their "negociation" with Orlais over the Tome was along the lines of "Give us the Tome and we won't shell your cities... for now."

[Rifneno]

TobiTobsen wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

The Arishok is quite practical.  If he thought the Urn could be used as a bargaining chip he would probably do so.  "The Qunari waste nothing" as Fenris says.

The reaction of the only Qunari that ever saw the Urn was this sentence:

"Congratulations. You've found your pot of holy dirt"

I don't think that the Urn would have any worth for them. And Qunari don't bargain. They do what the Qun demands of them. Honoring stupid stuff like bargains with humans is not demanded. Just listen to Sten when he talks about the peace treaty. They honor it because it fits them, not because they feel they're bound to it.

This is exactly why I leave Sten to rot in that cage until the darkspawn take him.

[ajm317]

TobiTobsen wrote...

ajm317 wrote...

The Arishok is quite practical.  If he thought the Urn could be used as a bargaining chip he would probably do so.  "The Qunari waste nothing" as Fenris says.

The reaction of the only Qunari that ever saw the Urn was this sentence:

"Congratulations. You've found your pot of holy dirt"

I don't think that the Urn would have any worth for them. And Qunari don't bargain. They do what the Qun demands of them. Honoring stupid stuff like bargains with humans is not demanded. Just listen to Sten when he talks about the peace treaty. They honor it because it fits them, not because they feel they're bound to it.

1.  Sten is a sten, not the Arishok, he is not a big picture person.

2.  The Qunari clearly do bargain.  The Qunari war was ended with a peace treaty.

3.  The Qunari clearly do not view the urn as having "intrinsic value" which is what Sten is stating here, but it would clearly be useful in dealing with people who thought it did.

4.  Sten is not in a position to exploit the urn for Qunari goals here.  All he can do is mock the humans apparent reverence for the object.