254 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex Kershaw]

I absolutely loved Mass Effect 2, giving it 10/10 like Origins. I give DA2 a 7.5/10. Liking ME2 and disliking DA2 are completely different, which is why ME2 is Bioware's highest rated game ever on Metacritic and DA2 is the worst.

[AngryFrozenWater]

My opinion about DA2 has nothing to do with it being a console port. Its streamlining has to do with economics. I should do a topic about that to explain it one of these days. However, in general I am not in favor of console ports, because the console's input devices and its graphics capabilities have a negative effect on most console ports. Some of that is true for DA2 as well. But like I said, that's not the main problem I have with DA2.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 24 avril 2011 - 02:30 .

[JaegerBane]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

My opinion about DA2 has nothing to do with it being a console port. Its streamlining has to do with economics. I should do a topic about that to explain it one of these days. However, in general I am not in favor of console ports, because the console's input devices and its graphics capabilities have a negative effect on most console ports. Some of that is true for DA2 as well. But like I said, that's not the main problem I have with DA2.

I agree that the whole console port thing isn't really the issue here. To be honest, a lot of people have thrown out the 'console-itis' card and frankly, I don't see what the point is. The stuff that went wrong in DA2 would have went wrong regardless of what platform it was aimed at, if indeed it was aimed at any specific platform in the first place.

On the other hand, I don't think it was necessarily to do with economics. Bioware have shown several times that they're pretty good at judging how long a game needs to be, and aren't afraid to point out how much resources are needed. In other words, I don't think it was because the money-men told them 'just do the best you can with x resources'.

IMO it was more to do with bad assumptions on the part of Bioware. They misjudged what the players found most enjoyable in DA:O and what they found least enjoyable, and hence made the design of DA2 on misunderstood ideas. I mean, at the end of the day, what really went wrong with DA2 wasn't bugs or tacked on features, it was fundamental problems with the game's design and narrative.

Or, to cut a long story short, the mistakes that were made in DA2 were made early on in the design phase, not at the end of implementation or QA. Those kind of mistakes don't get made because of pressure to release the game.

[Elite Midget]

ME2 is polished, fun, and harder to get bored of...

DA2? I can't even pull myself to do a second playthrough as mage. I have more funny beating enemies to death in Dynasty Warriors Gundam 2 over and over again.

Go, Re-Gz! Crush them all with your cheap imitation Waverider mode!

[Shatterkiss]

Alex Kershaw wrote...

I absolutely loved Mass Effect 2, giving it 10/10 like Origins. I give DA2 a 7.5/10. Liking ME2 and disliking DA2 are completely different, which is why ME2 is Bioware's highest rated game ever on Metacritic and DA2 is the worst.

Actually BG2  beats ME2 by a miniscule margin in critical reviews and by a wide margin in user reviews.  Credit where it's due.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Shatterkiss wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

I absolutely loved Mass Effect 2, giving it 10/10 like Origins. I give DA2 a 7.5/10. Liking ME2 and disliking DA2 are completely different, which is why ME2 is Bioware's highest rated game ever on Metacritic and DA2 is the worst.

Actually BG2  beats ME2 by a miniscule margin in critical reviews and by a wide margin in user reviews.  Credit where it's due.

On the PC. ME 2 is actually rated higher on consoles than BG 2. I don't find user scores on metacritic reliable, especially about games that carry a good deal of weight in the industry like Baldur's Gate.

The number of reviewers ( 240+ ) also seems to be pretty low.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 24 avril 2011 - 10:13 .

[Shatterkiss]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

On the PC. ME 2 is actually rated higher on consoles than BG 2. I don't find user scores on metacritic reliable, especially about games that carry a good deal of weight in the industry like Baldur's Gate.

The number of reviewers ( 240+ ) also seems to be pretty low.

Hmm, I just found the Bioware page and ME2 is ranked higher.  I just averaged the scores for all three platforms and it was slightly lower than BG2, but they're probably including fractions that aren't displayed to users.

The lower number of users isn't too suprising, and I'd imagine it's pretty much the same with most older games.  It's not like people played BG2 and then waited around for over two years for metacritic to pop up.

[nicethugbert]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Yes Mass Effect2 was a polished game with a decent combat system. I would never call ME2 a great RPG but it was a great game.

I agree that ME2 is a great game, at least a good game.  Also, I don't care at all if it's not an RPG.  RGPs can go to hell for all I care.  I want great games.  I want great story, great cinematics, great visuals, great audio, great action, great everything.  I don't give two ****s about genre at all.  Genre's are boring academic excersises.

If people would give up these worthless genre labels and expectations and focus on more concrete aspects of games then they'll be able to see and acquire what they really want much better than just waiting on the next BG to magically appear.

[nicethugbert]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I loved ME2, the characters, the gameplay all of it. DA2 I had to force myself to finish and have yet to go back and replay. The problem isn't being console centered or dumbed down, I just didn't find DA2 as enjoyable for a variety of reasons. The story being the main one, in that it just wasn't as epic as ME2.

I found the games similar enough to enjoy them both.  I didn't see any great difference.

[ruttunenn]

Turnip Root wrote...

So I want to know if your dislike of Dragon Age II has more to do with the actual quality of the game, or your disappointment over the game not catering to the platform you enjoy the most.

Actual quality of the game and design choises.
Too simplified.
No diplomacy.

Just meh.

Have been lately playing Red Dead Redemption and Crysis 2 , even those two games from witch neither are RPG,s have almost as much RPG character as DA2 , Red Dead Redemption might have even more.

I mean an FPS like Crysis 2 giving me more choises on how to tackle most of its problems than DA2 now thats just sad. <_<

[randName]

nightscrawl wrote...

Persephone wrote...

zeejay21 wrote...

Not game quality but rather game structure. It's very complex whereas ME and DA:O was simple:-

Save the universe from hungry, angry alien forces - ME series

Save a nation from an evil invasion - DA:O

Rise to power with tragedy, complex relationships and controversial events - DA2


People like simplicity, not complexity. DA2 isn't for most people.

Ouch, ouch!

I dunno if I would reduce it all down to something as simple as that. Each game has its merits and its flaws.

I don't know... I've always gotten the impression that Hawke was just dragged along for the ride in most cases. There is no "saving the universe," or "saving a nation," in DA2. You have to choose between two morally ambiguous options, neither of which "save" anything. In each scenario there is mass destruction, loss of life, and society as a whole in several nations is changed forever.

Perhaps that is what some people can't deal with.

I would love the choice, but the problem is that it's not a choice in DA2 since it's the same what ever you do.

I actually prefer the idea of DA2 over DA:O due to the underlaying conflict, the problem is that they make it a farce, and I'd rather have a simple story done well than a potentially good and complex story done badly.

[JaegerBane]

nicethugbert wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I loved ME2, the characters, the gameplay all of it. DA2 I had to force myself to finish and have yet to go back and replay. The problem isn't being console centered or dumbed down, I just didn't find DA2 as enjoyable for a variety of reasons. The story being the main one, in that it just wasn't as epic as ME2.

I found the games similar enough to enjoy them both.  I didn't see any great difference.

Hmmm. I think you'd have to be trying pretty hard to not see any great differences between ME2 and Dragon Age 2. Everything from narrative and playstyle all the way down to engine and interface were different.

Fiddles_stix makes a good point. Many of the differences between ME2 and DA2 were the reason why I thoroughly enjoyed the former and found the latter to be lacking.

[JaegerBane]

zeejay21 wrote...

Not game quality but rather game structure. It's very complex whereas ME and DA:O was simple:-

Save the universe from hungry, angry alien forces - ME series

Save a nation from an evil invasion - DA:O

Rise to power with tragedy, complex relationships and controversial events - DA2


People like simplicity, not complexity. DA2 isn't for most people.

*sigh*

I love it how people suddenly start defining 'complexity' as anything that isn't saving the world.

Let me repeat this, since the message doesn't seem to be getting through to some people:

Complexity is all well and good, and I think you'll find many would prefer a complex plot. But many of us don't want the story to sacrifice sense, clarity and variation for the sake of being complex. I'd rather have a well written, well paced save-the-world story than a complex tale that didn't make any sense or treated the player like a bystander.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 24 avril 2011 - 05:31 .

[Faroth]

I played DA:O and DA2 on PS3. I didn't like the huge changes to the game style in favor of what I understand is Mass Effect's style.

I never played either of the Mass Effect games, though.

Here's the thing. Dragon Age: Origins was Dragon Age. Mass Effect was Mass Effect. Both were successful, so why not let both IPs travel different roads?

As for DA2...yeah, I didn't find complexity in it. I just found a lot of arbitrary decisions being made and your actions having little effect.

Send a dwarf girl to be a researcher and assistant at the mage tower.  Ignore a request for petitioning a Chantry in Orzamar.  Hey, Exalted March on Orzamar!
See, when tiny little decisions have long term ramifications...that's what I consider a more complex and intricate story.  The inconsequential things prove to have large ramifications.

Modifié par Faroth, 24 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[Gotholhorakh]

OK, since you ask, and I feel awful for being so candid, but:

For me, all of the analysis in the world won't change the fact that it's just a bad, poor quality game.

Yes, everything they've done to change it just makes me think "why? what was the rationale behind that? why would anyone think that was a good idea?"

...but none of that would have mattered as much if the game was fun.. it's not, and it feels like a 40% complete bad game, destined to take its place among hundreds of other dungeon crawling games you can only find in bargain bins or boot sales.

that's not to say others won't enjoy it, I completely concede it's subjective, and I have every faith that BioWare will move on as they are absolutely KICKASS game makers normally - but as asked, that's how it feels to me.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 24 avril 2011 - 08:51 .

[aragfore03]

I love the Mass Effect series but was disappointed by Dragon Age 2. Mass Effect 2 was a quality game. The sidequests, character stories, the pacing, the writing, it was really impressive. Dragon Age 2 was just... not. We know it was rushed and had a short development cycle but that doesn't justify what was released.

I enjoyed DAO on both the 360 (poor graphics aside) and the PC. So I'm not tied to any particular platform. The biggest issue with Dragon Age 2 is that my decisions meant nothing. I'd be ok with that if the personal stories told throughout the game with the party members was meaningful but it wasn't. Don't get me started on just being stuck in and around Kirkwall either.... that just sucked.

So to answer the OPs question it really has to do with the quality of the game. It just wasn't there. This game should not have been rushed. I hope there is a DA3 and they take their time with it.

Modifié par aragfore03, 25 avril 2011 - 02:33 .

[Pandaman102]

I enjoyed ME2, still have it installed and play it every now and then, strongly disliked DA2 and couldn't even bother installing the patch before I uninstalled it.

Different settings, different expectations. What worked for a sci-fi shooter with a galaxy-consuming threat looming around the corner didn't work for a fantasy hack n' slasher that lacked any sense of urgency. Liking DA2 simply because you liked ME2 doesn't mean you appreciate a game on its own merits, it just means you have a shallow appreciation that doesn't extend past the mechanics.

[lazuli]

I did not enjoy DA2. Mass Effect 2, on the other hand, is probably my favorite Bioware game to date, dethroning Baldur's Gate 2 and NWN (for its toolset and multiplayer, not the OC). My dislike of DA2 has to do with stretching a small amount of interesting content into hours and hours of mediocrity. It is a low quality game. There are some high quality aspects, but they are lost in the shuffle of recycled dungeons, endlessly spawning enemies, meaningless quests, and a storyline so aimless it belongs in the prequel trilogy of Star Wars. There are parts of the game that I like, but the overall experience has been largely negative.

[NinaDA]

For Bioware games, I'm a PC gamer even though I own consoles (micromanagement and mods!). I loved ME1 and ME2, played through them many, many times, and DAO is my favorite game of all. It makes no difference to me what the game's initial port was for as long as it's quality. I was disappointed by DA2 for 2 simple reasons: companion interaction and recycled maps. I do think the combat was improved (minus the waves) and I like the voiced protagonist, but not enough to make up for those two changes.

[Mad-Max90]

Stop blaming consoles for a ****ty game, I played origins on 360, and I love that game, I hate this aborted fetus of a game, because lets face it playing this game is like trying to give birth to a fetus, its not fully developed is what I'm getting at, but seriouly every time a bad game that's cross platform comes out you guys, wave your fists in anger and blame console players for another person's problems. I didn't make the ****ing game, microsoft gamestudios didn't make this, Sony didn't make this, so please don't blame us for what people think we want

[Melca36]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Stop blaming consoles for a ****ty game, I played origins on 360, and I love that game, I hate this aborted fetus of a game, because lets face it playing this game is like trying to give birth to a fetus, its not fully developed is what I'm getting at, but seriouly every time a bad game that's cross platform comes out you guys, wave your fists in anger and blame console players for another person's problems. I didn't make the ****ing game, microsoft gamestudios didn't make this, Sony didn't make this, so please don't blame us for what people think we want

As a console gamer, you need to make your voice heard. Marketing people and developers assume all of you want things simplified and that all you care about is the action.

[Mad-Max90]

I still can't see the logic of comparing mass effect 2 to Dragon Age2, mass effect, locations were new, interesting plot that spanned different planets, characters were interesting, brought more depth to the story, yes it dropped traditional rpg elements, but you were still allowed to make choices that are important to your story. Now let's take a look at DA2, enemies rain down on you, completely ruining the tactics part, the story was broken up to three acts, in none of those acts were you given a choice that would change the end of the game, "artfully done" reused maps for every location, no clear antagonist until the last 15 minutes, the "ending", the horrible fetch quests, the patch that took more than a month to fix the gamebreaking bugs, only to get new bugs that won't let me finish a story quest, the list goes on why you can't defend DA2 using Mass Effect as a human body shield, you just can't compare a polished AAA title with this turd

[takfar]

Yes, ME2 is a very good game. It was complete, polished, and received plenty of support from the devs even months after release. It was also simplified in ways that made sense for that franchise. By comparison, DA2 is a rush job riddled with terrible design decisions and game-breaking bugs. I was so disgusted by it that I played through act 1 and couldn't go any further. Now it's just sitting there... I might try it again once the next patch hits and fixes some of the many remaining quest bugs.

I'm really looking forward to ME3, but I'll wait till reviews from several sources are out before I bite. I don't think I'll ever preorder anything else from Bioware after the DA2 debacle.

Modifié par takfar, 25 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[LilyasAvalon]

I haven't finished Mass Effect 2 yet, but I am enjoying it so far. My complaints with DA2 had nothing to do with which console I played it on, it's with how the game worked itself, trying to change the game from something like Origins to a cinematic game line up like Mass Effect just didn't work for me.