254 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Merced652 wrote...

So if bashing = rude, what do you have to say about laidlaw's commented about DAO? Justified? Isn't that really hypocritical?

If he is bashing the game (I haven't read that many of his interviews), then yes, he is being unnecessarily rude and unprofessional. Point me to a comment of his with equal venom.

One can be critical of a game without bashing, hyperbole and belittling those who like it. If Mr. Laidlaw doesn't know this, then shame on him. That's an old marketing ploy you should NEVER use. (It hurts more than it helps)

[AkiKishi]

TJSolo wrote...

Did you like Mass Effect 2?

No.
I just read Game Informer's preview of ME3 and am not in the mood to talk much about the ME series atm.

Bad I take it ? Mind posting or PMing me a link ?

[Must have name]

I felt DA2 was inferior to DA1. I felt ME2 was superior to ME1.

Thing about the first Mass Effect is it was stuck in the muddy waters between RPG and TPS. There was no tactical combat to miss, and i'd say combat is vastly superior in ME2 simply as a plain TPS. ME1's combat for me was simply "Cast a Biotic to Win" anyway, so no loss. DA2's combat on the other hand turned into a reinforcement spam contest with the only difficulty being in CC'ing assassins before they gank your mages.

That's not to mention all the other things that changed in DA, but didn't change so much in ME. Point is ME as a game didn't have a lot of heavy RPG elements, such as character backgrounds, in the first place. It was built up from the ground as its own game. When you start calling a game DA2, you expect continuity with most things from DA, which we didn't get.

Modifié par Must have name, 21 avril 2011 - 06:15 .

[Persephone]

drvaughn1999 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

ME2 was a great game with several coats of polish. DA2 was a trainwreck with several cans of toxic waste dumped onto it.

What's with the extremes? I mean...I get you don't like the game. But is it necessary to be this rude? And yet people get upset with Laidlaw "bashing" DAO? (Is DAO a sacred cow or something?)

I do not consider his post rude at all.

Leaving personal tastes aside, DA2 has several critical flaws (granted, some were fixed last patch) that I never found on DAO.

Good for you. (To me, bashing = rude. Many DAO fans seem to agree, since they keep cussing and mocking Mr. Laidlaw for bashing DAO.) To me DAO is a broken shell of a game without Mods. (Esp. Dialogue, Bug, restoring broken content and plot flags as well Epilogue patches. And even with all these, it's still riddled with bugs)

If I bash DA2 I am rude, but you bash DA:O that is ok.  I'm must be missing something?

Where have I bashed DAO with such venom again? I have loved DAO since 2009. Countless posts of mine over the last year prove that. I wouldn't still be downloading mods, writing fan fiction & finish up another Mage Warden if I did not.

[mr fried]

I liked ME2, it was an RP shooter that followed on well from ME1, the story worked, while there were large gameplay changes the style story and choices didn't change. It was polished, it was fun and you could play it many times to see what different effects your choices made.
Dragon Age was marketed as a 'Dark' Fantasy RPG, DA2 lost much in terms of story and style, ME1 was slated for re-using enviroments, ME2 addressed that, DA:O didn't have that issue, yet they did it in DA2, (this is why I laugh when they say they listen and respond accordingly to what the gamers want, gamers said they didn't want it when it was in ME1, so why are they so suprised that gamers hate it in DA2?)
DA2 was also released unpolished with bugs and choice seems to be missing too. If it wasn't for the dialogue wheel you wouldn't even know Bioware had made this game,

[TUHD]

Persephone, bugger off before I request an mod to deal with you. The OP asked an question, and as long as we follow the established rules we're free to answer. I've seen too many of your tries to incite a flame war.
@Others: sorry for the interruption.

[drvaughn1999]

Persephone wrote...

drvaughn1999 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

ME2 was a great game with several coats of polish. DA2 was a trainwreck with several cans of toxic waste dumped onto it.

What's with the extremes? I mean...I get you don't like the game. But is it necessary to be this rude? And yet people get upset with Laidlaw "bashing" DAO? (Is DAO a sacred cow or something?)

I do not consider his post rude at all.

Leaving personal tastes aside, DA2 has several critical flaws (granted, some were fixed last patch) that I never found on DAO.

Good for you. (To me, bashing = rude. Many DAO fans seem to agree, since they keep cussing and mocking Mr. Laidlaw for bashing DAO.) To me DAO is a broken shell of a game without Mods. (Esp. Dialogue, Bug, restoring broken content and plot flags as well Epilogue patches. And even with all these, it's still riddled with bugs)

If I bash DA2 I am rude, but you bash DA:O that is ok.  I'm must be missing something?

Where have I bashed DAO with such venom again? I have loved DAO since 2009. Countless posts of mine over the last year prove that. I wouldn't still be downloading mods, writing fan fiction & finish up another Mage Warden if I did not.

About every time you defend DA2, you bring up something you did not like in DA:O (like the camp). 

[Uzaik]

@ Persephone
So now it's not that bashing is a synonym for rudeness. Instead, you claim that there exists such a threshold (your so called "venom") which converts bashing into rudeness. Who decides that threshold? Or perhaps it was a misunderstanding on the equals sign? I'm puzzled.

Modifié par Uzaik, 21 avril 2011 - 06:20 .

[MingWolf]

ME1 was slated for re-using enviroments, ME2 addressed that, DA:O didn't have that issue, yet they did it in DA2, (this is why I laugh when they say they listen and respond accordingly to what the gamers want, gamers said they didn't want it when it was in ME1, so why are they so suprised that gamers hate it in DA2?)

Actually DA:O reused areas quite a bit. It just wasn't as noticeable given how expanse the world was and probably why people didn't bring it up as much. They particularly abused recycling with DLCs, when you more or less revisit the same places over and over. They must have thought something along the lines of "oh, since the DLCs sold so well, the gamers probably wouldn't mind..." I'm speculating, I know, but I couldn't help it

[Persephone]

TUHD wrote...

Persephone, bugger off before I request an mod to deal with you. The OP asked an question, and as long as we follow the established rules we're free to answer. I've seen too many of your tries to incite a flame war.
@Others: sorry for the interruption.

Oh dear God, now I AM scared. And you think threats will impress me because? Go ahead, invoke the powers that be.



As for the poster's original question:

Argh, wrong question answered. I do love ME2 a lot. Game mechanics wise it is definitely superior to DAII.

Modifié par Persephone, 21 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[TUHD]

@Vaughn, Uzaik and others: Ignore Persephone. They're trying to get an flame war (thereby this thread locked). It isn't worth it.
Edit: message sent to Epler, Gaider and Woo. I've had enough of you Persephone.

Modifié par TUHD, 21 avril 2011 - 06:23 .

[Merced652]

Uzaik wrote...

@ Persephone
So now it's not that bashing is a synonym for rudeness. Instead, you claim that there exists such a threshold (your so called "venom") which converts bashing into rudeness. Who decides that threshold? Or perhaps it was a misunderstanding on the equals sign? I'm puzzled.

Especially since laidlaw somewhat infamously said that text is a terrible medium for conveying humor and sarcasm, i would expect "venom" to be equally hard to properly convey and percieve. But if you disagree with laidlaw, as i do, then i must concede that venom can be conveyed and properly percieved. 

[Persephone]

drvaughn1999 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

drvaughn1999 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

ME2 was a great game with several coats of polish. DA2 was a trainwreck with several cans of toxic waste dumped onto it.

What's with the extremes? I mean...I get you don't like the game. But is it necessary to be this rude? And yet people get upset with Laidlaw "bashing" DAO? (Is DAO a sacred cow or something?)

I do not consider his post rude at all.

Leaving personal tastes aside, DA2 has several critical flaws (granted, some were fixed last patch) that I never found on DAO.

Good for you. (To me, bashing = rude. Many DAO fans seem to agree, since they keep cussing and mocking Mr. Laidlaw for bashing DAO.) To me DAO is a broken shell of a game without Mods. (Esp. Dialogue, Bug, restoring broken content and plot flags as well Epilogue patches. And even with all these, it's still riddled with bugs)

If I bash DA2 I am rude, but you bash DA:O that is ok.  I'm must be missing something?

Where have I bashed DAO with such venom again? I have loved DAO since 2009. Countless posts of mine over the last year prove that. I wouldn't still be downloading mods, writing fan fiction & finish up another Mage Warden if I did not.

About every time you defend DA2, you bring up something you did not like in DA:O (like the camp). 

Well, I don't think that mentioning that DAO had its fair share of problems too is bashing. It's not like I called it a piece of trash covered in rot, no? (And I wouldn't)

[Persephone]

Merced652 wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

@ Persephone
So now it's not that bashing is a synonym for rudeness. Instead, you claim that there exists such a threshold (your so called "venom") which converts bashing into rudeness. Who decides that threshold? Or perhaps it was a misunderstanding on the equals sign? I'm puzzled.

Especially since laidlaw somewhat infamously said that text is a terrible medium for conveying humor and sarcasm, i would expect "venom" to be equally hard to properly convey and percieve. But if you disagree with laidlaw, as i do, then i must concede that venom can be conveyed and properly percieved. 

Did he say that? Eargh, that's just....really wrong. Two words, Mr. Laidlaw: William Shakespeare. One need not see a performance of his comedies to laugh at their humor or admire their witty barbs.

[Miashi]

I loved Mass Effect 2 very much. I know that some people are reserved against it, but there was far more attention to detail in ME 2 than DA:2. Zones were detailed, colorful and different, storyline felt compelling (to me anyways), and damn I love Shep throwing witty lines here and there. He's a badass.

[Merced652]

Persephone wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

@ Persephone
So now it's not that bashing is a synonym for rudeness. Instead, you claim that there exists such a threshold (your so called "venom") which converts bashing into rudeness. Who decides that threshold? Or perhaps it was a misunderstanding on the equals sign? I'm puzzled.

Especially since laidlaw somewhat infamously said that text is a terrible medium for conveying humor and sarcasm, i would expect "venom" to be equally hard to properly convey and percieve. But if you disagree with laidlaw, as i do, then i must concede that venom can be conveyed and properly percieved. 

Did he say that? Eargh, that's just....really wrong. Two words, Mr. Laidlaw: William Shakespeare. One need not see a performance of his comedies to laugh at their humor or admire their witty barbs.

Its not exactly what he said, i'm too lazy to actually look it up, but he did make mention of sarcasm, sincerity, and i believe humor as being poorly conveyed through text. Although it might have been a case where he or some other dev implied the VO gave it more humor rather than text being an outright poor medium. 

found it on my beloved rpgcodex of all places 

Text is always a pretty horrible medium for conveying sarcasm or sincerity. Being able to put a heart, as much as you could argue that you could tell, lets you say, "OK, I'm certain with this choice. I'm not making it blind." That's very important when you want to associate yourself with a character. 

Modifié par Merced652, 21 avril 2011 - 06:41 .

[Zjarcal]

Merced652 wrote...
...but he did make mention of sarcasm, sincerity, and i believe humor as being poorly conveyed through text.

Hmm, judging by the amount of misunderstandings on the Internet (where people sometimes take a joke as a serious comment or a serious comment as a joke, or many other examples of missing the point), I'd say there's some truth to that.

[Persephone]

Merced652 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

Uzaik wrote...

@ Persephone
So now it's not that bashing is a synonym for rudeness. Instead, you claim that there exists such a threshold (your so called "venom") which converts bashing into rudeness. Who decides that threshold? Or perhaps it was a misunderstanding on the equals sign? I'm puzzled.

Especially since laidlaw somewhat infamously said that text is a terrible medium for conveying humor and sarcasm, i would expect "venom" to be equally hard to properly convey and percieve. But if you disagree with laidlaw, as i do, then i must concede that venom can be conveyed and properly percieved. 

Did he say that? Eargh, that's just....really wrong. Two words, Mr. Laidlaw: William Shakespeare. One need not see a performance of his comedies to laugh at their humor or admire their witty barbs.

Its not exactly what he said, i'm too lazy to actually look it up, but he did make mention of sarcasm, sincerity, and i believe humor as being poorly conveyed through text. Although it might have been a case where he or some other dev implied the VO gave it more humor rather than text being an outright poor medium. 

It may be HARDER to convey if you have no VO actor to act out the lines for you, but good writing will carry itself without VO. That's how good books work, after all. Nope, Mr. Laidlaw, definitely do not agree with you there.

[Merced652]

Zjarcal wrote...

Merced652 wrote...
...but he did make mention of sarcasm, sincerity, and i believe humor as being poorly conveyed through text.

Hmm, judging by the amount of misunderstandings on the Internet (where people sometimes take a joke as a serious comment or a serious comment as a joke, or many other examples of missing the point), I'd say there's some truth to that.

I edited the post with the exact quote, doesn't appear to be much left up to an individuals interpretation. 

[Cutlass Jack]

Zjarcal wrote...

Hmm, judging by the amount of misunderstandings on the Internet (where people sometimes take a joke as a serious comment or a serious comment as a joke, or many other examples of missing the point), I'd say there's some truth to that.

Emoticons agree with you.

[Killer3000ad]

I loved ME1 and 2 to death with over a dozen playthroughs. I am a PC gamer and don't care much where the origins of a game lie as long as it's good and runs on PC. I was disappointed with DA2 because it's not what i wanted in a sequel. I expected more DA:O but got Call of Kirkwall.

[Reinveil]

I loved Mass Effect 2 - it was easily my favorite game of 2010.  One of those games where I was actually a little bummed when it ended because I wanted it to keep going.  Lair of the Shadow Broker was arguably the best bit of DLC Bioware has ever made, as well.

So no, my dislike of DAII has nothing to do with it being more console friendly (I played it on an Xbox).  It has to do with the shoddy, unfocused story, the lazy and/or rushed production values (repeated environments, static, lifeless city, wave after wave of the same enemies that explode in the exact same fashion, etc), poor character development and interaction (even Mass Effect 2, which was more focused on being a shooter this time around than an RPG, had more interaction with your crew), and ridiculous bugs that should have been caught before it shipped.

[zeejay21]

Not game quality but rather game structure. It's very complex whereas ME and DA:O was simple:-

Save the universe from hungry, angry alien forces - ME series

Save a nation from an evil invasion - DA:O

Rise to power with tragedy, complex relationships and controversial events - DA2


People like simplicity, not complexity. DA2 isn't for most people.

[Persephone]

zeejay21 wrote...

Not game quality but rather game structure. It's very complex whereas ME and DA:O was simple:-

Save the universe from hungry, angry alien forces - ME series

Save a nation from an evil invasion - DA:O

Rise to power with tragedy, complex relationships and controversial events - DA2


People like simplicity, not complexity. DA2 isn't for most people.

Ouch, ouch!

I dunno if I would reduce it all down to something as simple as that. Each game has its merits and its flaws.

[TJSolo]

BobSmith101 wrote...

TJSolo wrote...

Did you like Mass Effect 2?

No.
I just read Game Informer's preview of ME3 and am not in the mood to talk much about the ME series atm.

Bad I take it ? Mind posting or PMing me a link ?

There is no link yet because it is the physical copy of the May issue that is not online yet and I am not at with the mag now.
I would not say it is bad but the preview has not sparked my interest of ME3 past the point of just wanting to have closure for my Shep. The word evolution/evolve appeared on 1 page about 6 times. The only confirmed returning members are the LIs from ME1, there's a new guy, and most likely no MP or Co-OP. I only say most likely because Casey Hudson did not give a definitive no.
The whole article is about 6-8 pages and has interviews with the Doctors, Casey Hudson, and the writers opinion about the first area of the game, Earth.

If you want to wait a few more hours I could PM some excerpts from the article but I think going to a Game Stop and getting the full piece with pics would be better.