698 réponses à ce sujet

[nickkcin11]

You don't want to be Shepard's enemy... they have a habit of dying.

[Bluko]

AVPen wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I doubt Ashley/Kaidan would ever try to over-rule your orders. First off you are still very much in their eyes a hero and their original Commanding Officer.

After their encounter on Horizon? Yeah, I sorta doubt that's the case anymore. 

You didn't listen very well to what they said.

Their pissed because the "hero" they looked up to is working for the bad guys, in their eyes. Pretty sure Ashley describes Shepard as a "hero and god" and Kaidan descirbes Shepard as a "ghost and legend". Those are pretty big titles to throw around.

Think about it: what would you say to someone like Batman if they started working with the Joker? You'd probably be like "WTF man?"

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Elite Midget

Wasn't it a member of his team who betrayed him and got his team killed? Not actually Garrus himself?

[Elite Midget]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Elite Midget

Wasn't it a member of his team who betrayed him and got his team killed? Not actually Garrus himself?

Would anyone in Shepard Team sell him out? No. Yet Garrus had someone unloyal... He doesn't have what it takes to be a Spectre. He's impatient, hates authority(Which Spectres must still obey in the end), and is too trusting of those with faults.

[didymos1120]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Elite Midget

Wasn't it a member of his team who betrayed him and got his team killed? Not actually Garrus himself?

To play devil's advocate: who recruited that guy?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

And how exactly was Garrus supposed to know that Sidonis would betray him? Just like how was Shepard was supposed to know that Wrex was going to act the way he did on Virmire?

[didymos1120]

AVPen wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I doubt Ashley/Kaidan would ever try to over-rule your orders. First off you are still very much in their eyes a hero and their original Commanding Officer.

After their encounter on Horizon? Yeah, I sorta doubt that's the case anymore. 

If Ash or Kaidain is your LI and you don't tell them to get lost, you get this:

Shepard,

I'm sorry for what I said back on Horizon. When I lost you two years ago, it tore me up. I  prayed for you every day. I read a lot of Tennyson, thinking about you, just like I did when my dad passed. And then you came back, and it was like my prayers were answered. But I'm not who I was then, and neither are you.

I don't know what's true anymore. Part of me can't believe it's really you. I keep going back to that night before Ilos, our night.... I haven't let myself think about those memories for more than a year now.

I wouldn't have expected you to work for Cerberus, but I know why they sent you to Horizon. I saw how many people were lost there, and if anyone can stop the Collectors, you can. I can't go where you're going, but I can wish you luck.

Just stay alive out there... Skipper. I don't know what the future holds, but I can't lose you a second time.

--Ash

or this:

Shepard,

I'm sorry for what I said back on Horizon. I spent two years pulling myself back together after you went down with the Normandy. It took me a long time to get over my guilt for surviving and move on. I'd finally let my friends talk me into going out for drinks with a doctor on the Citadel. Nothing serious, but trying to let myself have a life again, you know?

Then I saw you, and everything pulled hard to port. You were standing in front of me, but you were with Cerberus. I guess I really don't know who either of us is anymore. Do you even remember that night before Ilos? That night meant everything to me... maybe it meant as much to you. But a lot has changed in the last two years and I can't just put that aside.

But please be careful. I've watched too many people close to me die -- on Eden Prime, on Virmire, on Horizon, on the Normandy. I couldn't bear it if I lost you again. If you're still the woman I remember, I know you'll find a way to stop these Collector attacks. But Cerberus is too dangerous to be trusted. Watch yourself.

When things have settled down a little... maybe... I don't know. Just take care.

--Kaidan

I have trouble believing non-romanced Ash and Kaidan handled diplomatically have attitudes radically different from this.  Which is to say: worried about what Shep may have gotten into, regretful over the way things went, but still believing in Shep's ability to achieve great things. 

[gorrillasnake]

 yup ash is a spectre...
look at her left breast in The Game Informer mag and youll see a gray mark that looks like the spectre logo

Edit:Take a look at the mag..not online..the mag...in person

Modifié par gorrillasnake, 22 avril 2011 - 04:42 .

[didymos1120]

gorrillasnake wrote...

 yup ash is a spectre...
look at her left breast in The Game Informer mag and youll see a gray mark that looks like the spectre logo

*snip*

I think this is one of those "Jesus on my morning toast" things, because I'm not seeing it. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 avril 2011 - 04:49 .

[AVPen]

Bluko wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Bluko wrote...

I doubt Ashley/Kaidan would ever try to over-rule your orders. First off you are still very much in their eyes a hero and their original Commanding Officer.

After their encounter on Horizon? Yeah, I sorta doubt that's the case anymore. 

You didn't listen very well to what they said.

My hearing is perfectly fine, but you're focusing on a single opening sentence of a dialogue exchange to justify your viewpoint of said character even thought the conclusion of said exchange is the opposite of what you're suggesting.

Bluko wrote...

Shepard is still top dog, even though Ashley/Kaidan have likely improved their skills niether one could really ever hope to overpower Shepard. Hence even if they do disagree the only option for them is to leave really. And again both Ashley/Kaidan regard Shepard as their hero. I doubt they'd disobey Shepard unless you told them to something extremely reprehensible. There's never been any reason why the ME2 crew had to do what you say, but they follow because Shepard's a leader.

Again, after everything that occured on Horizon?
After learning that Shepard was involved/working with Cerberus, an organization that they regard as an absolute enemy, the Black side to the Alliance's White?
After saying that unlike Shepard, they still knew where their loyalties lay?
After stating that Shepard had changed from who they had known before and calling him/her a trailor to everything they previously stood for to his/her face? 

As I said previous, I just don't see that currently being the case anymore. 
(and yes, I'm aware of the fact that a romanced VS may react differently than a non-romanced VS, but that just muddies the waters even more.... thanks ME, and your multi-choice system, lol)

Bluko wrote...

Also it seemed pretty clear to me that either Ashley/Kaidan became very important Special Forces Operatives for the Alliance (Kaidan is the same rank as Shepard and Ashley is the highest rank for an Enlisted), or more likely that they were promoted and made Spectres. Which I'm guessing Anderson helped supervised. The Alliance wouldn't just send one Soldier out into the Terminus systems. They were sent out to Horizon on their own, because they were Spectres acting on behalf of the Alliance/Council.

Unless you have access to some sort of missing cut content from ME2 that no one else has, then you are just creating fictional explanations or plot points that do not exist in the actual game.

Modifié par AVPen, 22 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[Foolsfolly]

Kaidan is spectacularly useless, OP. I don't understand how the man got up the willpower to even be nominated by someone else.

But Ashley Williams? Ash is a fine soldier and extremely useful as a squadmate. She wasn't as useful as Wrex (with his biotics, barrier, immunity, adrenaline rush, shotgun and assault rifle) but she was more worthwhile than Kaidan and Garrus.

As for why they're Spectres? The same reason this person Shepard was. It's political.

Shepard died, became a terrorist, and then killed 300,000 batarans all the while screaming about boogymen from the darkness of space.

Garrus left and disappeared.

Tali and Wrex are not from a council member race.

Liara's a scientist and researcher who became obsessed with the Shadow Broker.

That leaves Kaidan and Ashley, one of which is dead. They're member race, they saved the galaxy, they helped save the Citadel, and they're human Spectre candidates who aren't screaming about Reapers or working with terrorists.

Humanity needs another Spectre for political reasons. Who would you nominate?

[Ranarc]

gorrillasnake wrote...

 yup ash is a spectre...
look at her left breast in The Game Informer mag and youll see a gray mark that looks like the spectre logo

Edit:Take a look at the mag..not online..the mag...in person

*snip*

I'm fairly sure it says S7, which is a ranking label like N7 for the alliance.

[thatguy212]

gorrillasnake wrote...

 yup ash is a spectre...
look at her left breast in The Game Informer mag and youll see a gray mark that looks like the spectre logo

Edit:Take a look at the mag..not online..the mag...in person

I'm on the case! ............................. Nope no symbol anywhere on her, although right above one of the suit clips there is 57 written in a greenish color
Edit: could also be S7

Modifié par thatguy212, 22 avril 2011 - 04:55 .

[didymos1120]

Ranarc wrote...

I'm fairly sure it says S7, which is a ranking label like N7 for the alliance.

Yeah, that I saw.

[PrinceLionheart]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Garrus had his chance.

But he's a flake.

"I'm going to be a Spectre so I can make my own rules!"

*time passes*

"This Spectre thing sucks, man.  Too many rules."

That's exactly what I think will happen if Garrus were to become a Spectre.

[didymos1120]

thatguy212 wrote...

Edit: could also be S7

That's more likely. "N7" is a vocational code, 'N' being Special Forces and '7' indicating highest proficiency rating.  So Ash is rated at the highest proficiency for whatever vocation 'S' stands for. 

ETA:  Codex:

Systems Alliance: N7

The Alliance Military Vocational Code system classifies the career path of all serving personnel. The MVC consists of one letter and one number. A soldier's MVC indicates proficiency, not rank. The letter notes career path; the number indicates level of experience, as indicated by service record, technical scores, and commendations. All 26 letters are used, and numbers run from 1 to 7. N is the letter code for Special Forces personnel.

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 avril 2011 - 05:04 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

And how exactly was Garrus supposed to know that Sidonis would betray him? Just like how was Shepard was supposed to know that Wrex was going to act the way he did on Virmire?

But Shepard delt with Wrex before he became a problem. Garrus, most likely caught up in his crucade, failed to do that.

I think a lot of the detractors are forgetting that even Shepard became a spectre was due politics; humanity was looking for a poster child and the Council needed someone to hunt down Saren without triggering a war. So yes, hypothetically if VS were to become a Spectre, it'd hardly be an insult to the job. 

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 22 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[Shadowrun1177]

I just looked at my copy and I don't see any Spectre symbol on her top, but I do see the numbers and such on her right sleeve like diddy and thatguy.

[Foolsfolly]

The man in your portrait. Mr Zaeed Massani. He's got the perfect temperament for a SPECTRE.

The Council couldn't afford him.

[Elite Midget]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

And how exactly was Garrus supposed to know that Sidonis would betray him? Just like how was Shepard was supposed to know that Wrex was going to act the way he did on Virmire?

Maybe by not just letting random civillians into his posse? Soldiers are 'trained' not to give up their allies. Civillians will break at the mere threat that you'll start cutting them up. Garrus thought civillians could do what Soldiers are trained to do every day. He paid for this by not properly training them, doing background checks, or even testing to see if they'll break over just 'light' interrogation.

When I was in the army I would have gladly died for any of my Brothers/Sisters in Arms. Before that I had a 'put myself first' mentality that comes naturally from being a civillian.

[thatguy212]

Wonder what the S stands for, could be some sort of Reconnaissance branch, explains why they were on Horizon

[kiti.the.great]

Kaidan/Ash as a Spectre?
Naaah, you kidding me. You must be kidding, right?
So hey, why not every random guy on Earth for Spectre?

Bioware, don't do this. It's cheap. Even cheaper than "ZOMG TIM IS EVIL CUZ WE LUV PARALOLS!!!!11".

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@PrinceLionheart Well, I never said that the VS would be an insult to the job.

@Elite Midget

Shepard hired civilians, too. Liara, Tali, Mordin (he used to be part of STG, but now he's not), and Kasumi are definitely civilians. Albeit skilled, but civilians none the less. And how do we know that Sidonis only endured "light" interrogation? It was possibly much worse. And everyone has a breaking point.

Garrus hired skilled people, and some of which were mercenaries if I recall.