698 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

Both Kaiden and Shepard were handpicked by Anderson to be a part of the Normandy crew for a reason. Ashley was transferred over to the Normandy by Anderson, too. It isn't much of a stretch for them to become Spectres, especially since there's a 2 year gap between ME1 and ME2. Who knows what other assignments they accomplished during that time?

Lets look at what Shepard accomplished before becoming a Spectre: Survived against Thresher Maws, helped destroy a Baatarian base, or helped defend a colony under siege.

Compare that to everything Ash/Kaiden did in ME1. Heck, if you didn't take them for any missions, they'd still have "helped repel Geth invasion on Eden Prime" and "helped destroy Saren's base on Virmire" on their resume.

Ash/Kaiden already accomplished more than Shepard before becoming a Spectre.

[Clover Rider]

marshalleck wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Cancer Puppet wrote...

Wow, really, they're Spectre agents now? Really? okay....

No, a badly written magazine article full of blatant inaccuracies claims they are.  There's a difference.

It's going to be so much fun repeating this for the next 7 months. Ugh.

[Kabanya101]

Personally I think it would be rather dumb for someone in the squad to become a specter. What would be the point in having two specters on the same ship, they should both have their own crew and ship. Besides, my shep did everything, saved the council, universe, every person alive, no one deserves a title of specter except him, not even the little puppets that followed him. Especially for how weak Bioware made the squadmates in ME2. Three characters that get recognition and maybe title of specter at the end of the game would be Wrex, Garrus, and maybe Liara but only because she's the shadow broker and a powerful biotic, not because she's my favorite. But during the actual events of ME3, no, absolutely not will I have another specter in my team. It would be like two generals leading an army, it just simply won't work. End of story.

[XavierL]

They helped. Shepard did his Spectre resume on his own. The 2nd string lineman helped a team win the superbowl, but he isn't worthy of a MVP trophy. Spectre status is MVP of the super bowl. Its one thing to get into the NFL, its another thing to be a starter, and its another thing to lead your team to the Super Bowl.

That is the best way to describe it.

[Cancer Puppet]

Yeah, on closer examination there does seem to be a heavy dollop of speculation in the article. Still, I love thinking about Jacob being gone. *contented sigh*

[Autoclave]

I have no problem with VS being a spectre. I don't get why are ppl so mad at it.

[BS Veyron]

Ash graduated at the top of her class in combat school. She is highly skilled. Reason why she didn't see much action before Eden Prime was her being stone walled because of who her grandfather was. She proved her self in ME1. We dont know much of what she did in the two years but its obvious she was being handed a number of top secret assignments. Kaiden is a high capable biotic despite the implant issues and like Ashley we dont know much about what he was doing before Horizon. Garrus has been with Shep the whole time, no point in becoming a specter when you already have the resources and you dont have to answer to the council.

[marshalleck]

Autoclave wrote...

I have no problem with VS being a spectre. I don't get why are ppl so mad at it.

Because THEY ARE THE HERO, how dare another character step on their ego!!!! Any character who does deserves a bullet in the head, obviously. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 21 avril 2011 - 11:14 .

[XavierL]

Kabanya101 wrote...

Personally I think it would be rather dumb for someone in the squad to become a specter. What would be the point in having two specters on the same ship, they should both have their own crew and ship. Besides, my shep did everything, saved the council, universe, every person alive, no one deserves a title of specter except him, not even the little puppets that followed him. Especially for how weak Bioware made the squadmates in ME2. Three characters that get recognition and maybe title of specter at the end of the game would be Wrex, Garrus, and maybe Liara but only because she's the shadow broker and a powerful biotic, not because she's my favorite. But during the actual events of ME3, no, absolutely not will I have another specter in my team. It would be like two generals leading an army, it just simply won't work. End of story.

I agree with most of your assesment, but I won't deny a person on my team by virtue of them being a Spectre. Spectres lead teams. Not armies. And, the Codex does say they work alone or in teams of 2. As for two generals leading an army, that is how it works. Haven't you ever heard of the Joint Chiefs? Or do you think any battle plan is dictated by one general alone? That's naive and a weak battle plan. 

[sevalaricgirl]

didymos1120 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
Its as if Shepard was suppose to just stand there and listen to this ass chewing out and he has no right to be mad or say anything .

Strange.  I seem to remember a dialogue wheel appearing in that conversation, and telling them they were being too emotional and not thinking things through properly.  Must have imagined that.

Garrus also told Kaidan he wasn't thinking it through.  I love my buddy Garrus, but the after Horizon letter was an apology.  Hell, does everyone in the haters' lives get bashed even if they apologize.  I sure hope not or they won't have any friends and will alienate their families.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 21 avril 2011 - 11:19 .

[Cancer Puppet]

Autoclave wrote...

I have no problem with VS being a spectre. I don't get why are ppl so mad at it.

I'm not mad, I just think it's a little silly.

[didymos1120]

XavierL wrote...
 He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st. 

I don't think that's how it works.  Unless you've got a copy of the Citadel Council Spectre Selection Manual handy the rest of us don't, we can't really say much about the usual process for Spectre selection, because Shep didn't go through that process. At most, we can say it involves an evaluation period under the watch/tutelage of an active Spectre, and the turians seem to have formalized the candidate selection part.

[Tamahome560]

I'm not opposed to VS being a Spectre but the info comes from the same source who claims that James Sanders is the British Sniper (And we know he is NOT) and that we are getting a new melee class ... Unreliable source. I wouldn't take their info at fact value.

[yoshibb]

marshalleck wrote...

Autoclave wrote...

I have no problem with VS being a spectre. I don't get why are ppl so mad at it.

Because THEY ARE THE HERO, how dare another character step on their ego!!!! Any character who does deserves a bullet in the head, obviously. 

Haha, this is so true.

[KotOREffecT]

Whats wrong with another Spectre tagging along? Does anyone care when more than one Jedi tags along? My thoughts exactly..

[didymos1120]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
Its as if Shepard was suppose to just stand there and listen to this ass chewing out and he has no right to be mad or say anything .

Strange.  I seem to remember a dialogue wheel appearing in that conversation, and telling them they were being too emotional and not thinking things through properly.  Must have imagined that.

Garrus also told Kaidan he wasn't thinking it through.  I love my buddy Garrus, but the after Horizon letter was an apology.  Hell, does everyone in the haters life get bashed even if they apologize.  I sure hope not or they won't have any friends and will alienate their families.

Plus, you can really be blunt about it.  No, you don't get to rant and shout at them, but you can essentially tell them "Whatever. The Alliance can stuff it, they aren't doing jack. Cope. Now run along."

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[XavierL]

didymos1120 wrote...

XavierL wrote...
 He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st. 

I don't think that's how it works.  Unless you've got a copy of the Citadel Council Spectre Selection Manual handy the rest of us don't, we can't really say much about the usual process for Spectre selection, because Shep didn't go through that process. At most, we can say it involves an evaluation period under the watch/tutelage of an active Spectre, and the turians seem to have formalized the candidate selection part.

This is true. Most of my longer post was speculation, but it was speculation based on history/lore. It appears the candidate selection process is done by a race. The Turians pick a group of people, then train them. Then they present them to the Counsil puts them with another Spectre for evaluation and tutelage. Its a long an arduous process, and Shepard became a Spectre in an unorthodox way, but he has shown time and time again, he's worthy. If you pit Shepard against Ash or Kaiden, neither would be able to hold a candle to him. The only humans that can are Miranda and Jack. Jack cant be a Spectre since she lacks in everything but combat ability. If Miranda was to go into the Alliance, she could easily become one. 

[Iakus]

KotOREffecT wrote...

Whats wrong with another Spectre tagging along? Does anyone care when more than one Jedi tags along? My thoughts exactly..

Indeed.  I question the veracity of this article, but I have no problem thinking that either of the VS could potentially become the "Second human Spectre".  Throughout ME 1 they were basically "Spectre Lite" much like Garrus. 

Besides multiple Spectres on a mission, you know things just got real serious

[rumination888]

XavierL wrote...

They helped. Shepard did his Spectre resume on his own. The 2nd string lineman helped a team win the superbowl, but he isn't worthy of a MVP trophy. Spectre status is MVP of the super bowl. Its one thing to get into the NFL, its another thing to be a starter, and its another thing to lead your team to the Super Bowl.

That is the best way to describe it.

War Hero Shepard had the help of colonists.
Ruthless Shepard had the help of other marines.
Sole Survivor had the help of other marines.

[didymos1120]

XavierL wrote...
 If you pit Shepard against Ash or Kaiden, neither would be able to hold a candle to him.

This is debatable, but, regardless, you seem to assume that all Spectres must be Shep-calibre.  I don't see any reason to think that's the case.  I'm sure there are a number of, for lack of a better term, "middle of the road" Spectres who don't get the big, flashy assignments and are largely just solid and reliable types with above-average skills in certain areas. I wouldn't take all the showy, ceremonial rhetoric about "born, not made" and whatnot too seriously. 

[Jzadek72]

XavierL wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

XavierL wrote...

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

They aren't as skilled as Shepard, of course, but they still fought by his side when he defeated Saren. Everyone who ever joined Shepard is skilled enough to be a Spectre, if you asked me.

Kaiden was not recruited. He was already aboard the SR1 from the beginning. Ash was taken aboard because she was a decent shot. She is a good soldier, I agree, but she is just that. a good soldier. Not an amazing one. Just being by Shep's side when he killed Saren isn't enough. By that logic, all of the orignal squad members are worthy of being Spectres, and that idea is a bad joke. 

They're all skilled enough, just don't have the demeanour. Unlike Ash, or Kaidan.

Tali is useless in a fight against organics. She couldn't do much against the Collectors. She's only good for fighting mechs and geth. Kaiden can take infantry, but he is useless against the big stuff. Large mechs, Threshers, etc. Wrex is good enough, but he wouldn't be interested. Garrus is worthy of being in the NFL, but he's be 2nd string. Ash just doesn't have it in her. In order for a human soldier to make Spectre, they have to be on Shepard's level. He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st. 

Organics have shields, and use electronics. Tali can easily play merry hell with all of these things. Kaidan is a sentinel - he can take the big stuff on no problem. 'Ash doesn't have it in her' is hardly a swaying argument.

[Tamahome560]

XavierL wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

XavierL wrote...
 He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st. 

I don't think that's how it works.  Unless you've got a copy of the Citadel Council Spectre Selection Manual handy the rest of us don't, we can't really say much about the usual process for Spectre selection, because Shep didn't go through that process. At most, we can say it involves an evaluation period under the watch/tutelage of an active Spectre, and the turians seem to have formalized the candidate selection part.

This is true. Most of my longer post was speculation, but it was speculation based on history/lore. It appears the candidate selection process is done by a race. The Turians pick a group of people, then train them. Then they present them to the Counsil puts them with another Spectre for evaluation and tutelage. Its a long an arduous process, and Shepard became a Spectre in an unorthodox way, but he has shown time and time again, he's worthy. If you pit Shepard against Ash or Kaiden, neither would be able to hold a candle to him. The only humans that can are Miranda and Jack. Jack cant be a Spectre since she lacks in everything but combat ability. If Miranda was to go into the Alliance, she could easily become one. 

While the Spectres are the elite not every single one of them is as good as Shepard. Shepard is the best. Shepard was the first because he is the best humanity has to offer. Now that humanity has secured their Council seat they can push forward for candidates that may not be nearly as good as Shep but are still worthy. The events of ME1 alone put the VS in a very favourable light. Add to that whatever they were doing for past 2 years (and we know that their files have become confidential so some high level missions/cover ops) which I would think would give them enough experience to be nominated.

[XavierL]

didymos1120 wrote...

XavierL wrote...
 If you pit Shepard against Ash or Kaiden, neither would be able to hold a candle to him.

This is debatable, but, regardless, you seem to assume that all Spectres must be Shep-calibre.  I don't see any reason to think that's the case.  I'm sure there are a number of, for lack of a better term, "middle of the road" Spectres who don't get the big, flashy assignments and are largely just solid and reliable types with above-average skills in certain areas. I wouldn't take all the showy, ceremonial rhetoric about "born, not made" and whatnot too seriously. 

I agree there are the less than amazing Spectres. That's why I've been saying Garrus would be one of those. He is the "middle of the road" Spectre you talk about. I just think Ash graduating top of her class at the academy isn't enough. That would mean every year there would be a new human Spectre since every year someone graduates at the top of the academy. As for Kaiden, his biotics can't compare to Jacks. He's above average, for sure, but so is Miranda, but she also has above average tech abilities as well. Only being above average at one thing isn't enough is my point. They have to be either above average across the board, or superior in a few facets. 

[didymos1120]

Also, there's this line, from the asari on the "no-fly" list:

"You're a Spectre? I heard the humans were nominating many of their kind, but I didn't know--"

and this part of the Renegade "Rise of The Alliance" Codex:

Because of the human Spectre Shepard’s pivotal role in saving the Council, many analysts conclude several humans will be made candidates for Spectre status, further solidifying the human contribution to galactic peace.

Now, the Paragon entry doesn't say that, but given how it talks about negativity towards humanity being "vastly outweighed by the trust and respect humanity earned" it's silly to think that somehow there wouldn't be more humans being put in for Spectre-hood and getting it under that scenario as well.

And regardless of which version of the galaxy you're in, it also would be kinda weird if Ash/Kaidan didn't get at least nominated by someone simply based on them being part of crew that took down Saren.

Modifié par didymos1120, 21 avril 2011 - 11:49 .

[XavierL]

Jzadek72 wrote...

XavierL wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

XavierL wrote...

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

They aren't as skilled as Shepard, of course, but they still fought by his side when he defeated Saren. Everyone who ever joined Shepard is skilled enough to be a Spectre, if you asked me.

Kaiden was not recruited. He was already aboard the SR1 from the beginning. Ash was taken aboard because she was a decent shot. She is a good soldier, I agree, but she is just that. a good soldier. Not an amazing one. Just being by Shep's side when he killed Saren isn't enough. By that logic, all of the orignal squad members are worthy of being Spectres, and that idea is a bad joke. 

They're all skilled enough, just don't have the demeanour. Unlike Ash, or Kaidan.

Tali is useless in a fight against organics. She couldn't do much against the Collectors. She's only good for fighting mechs and geth. Kaiden can take infantry, but he is useless against the big stuff. Large mechs, Threshers, etc. Wrex is good enough, but he wouldn't be interested. Garrus is worthy of being in the NFL, but he's be 2nd string. Ash just doesn't have it in her. In order for a human soldier to make Spectre, they have to be on Shepard's level. He is the standard for human Spectres, since he was the 1st. 

Organics have shields, and use electronics. Tali can easily play merry hell with all of these things. Kaidan is a sentinel - he can take the big stuff on no problem. 'Ash doesn't have it in her' is hardly a swaying argument.

Only a third of organics had shields. The other two thirds had armor or barries. She is useless against 2/3rds of the hazards of the galaxy. Kaiden can't do nearly as much damage to a Thresher or a heavy mech as Ash. Granted, Ash is more apt at taking out larger enemies, she isn't as good at crowd control as Kaiden. Both are polar opposites of each other.